Bruce Lee Fight Scenes in 4K (Question)

[DragonClaws]

Quick question to fans, do the Bruce Lee fight scene look slower to you in 4K, than they did on VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray?. I’ve haven’t seen any of his films in 4K, yet to buy a player. The new format hasn’t been much of a draw to me so far. However, I’ve just watched a 4K video of the cavern scene in Enter the Dragon. Not sure if it’s me, and the fact I’ve watched these films a lot over the years. But the motion and the speed looks more sluggish in parts. Is this due to the film dating, when compared to the more modern style of editing and speed, during fight scenes?.

 

[tomgray2404]

On 10/4/2023 at 4:32 PM, DragonClaws said:

Quick question to fans, do the Bruce Lee fight scene look slower to you in 4K, than they did on VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray?. I’ve haven’t seen any of his films in 4K, yet to buy a player. The new format hasn’t been much of a draw to me so far. However, I’ve just watched a 4K video of the cavern scene in Enter the Dragon. Not sure if it’s me, and the fact I’ve watched these films a lot over the years. But the motion and the speed looks more sluggish in parts. Is this due to the film dating, when compared to the more modern style of editing and speed, during fight scenes?.

 

 

 

On 4K, you're seeing more frames per second, so you have the full range of motion.

Back in the day when we had VHS, you're looking at significantly less fps.

[sym8]

I haven’t noticed any speed issues with my 4k stuff but what I have noticed is that the picture is much darker which bugs the hell out of me.I have a Samsung 4k tv and Xbox x but not impressed with the darkness.

[shukocarl1441996347]

12 hours ago, tomgray2404 said:

On 4K, you're seeing more frames per second, so you have the full range of motion.

Back in the day when we had VHS, you're looking at significantly less fps.

If you watched a dvd in PAL format it would have looked a tiddy bit faster as it's 25fps.

[Omni Dragon]

That Youtube video seems to run at 24fps, for me.

[starschwar]

There seems to be some confusion here on a few matters - let me demystify a few things:

 

• Since the advent of sound in film and ignoring some experiments like The Hobbit, motion pictures are, in theaters, displayed at 24 frames per second.
• In standard definition - from VHS all the way up to and including DVD, films were typically displayed at two other frame rates:
• In NTSC format, they were slowed down ever so slightly to 23.976 frames per second, and then to get to the 59.94 HZ refresh rates, were displayed with a 3:2 pattern of frame repeats.
• In PAL format, the films were sped up to 25 frames per second, leading to perfectly even frame repeats on 50HZ displays.  Smoother motion, but faster.
• Sometimes, DVD, laserdisc, or other media would screw up and resample the 23.976 framerate to 50 or 60 HZ leading to an awful blurred image that cannot be reconstructed to filmic look.
• Since the advent of Blu-Ray, films are typically encoded in 23.976 FPS and can be output as such, with frame repeats handled by your display.
• On a TV with a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (rounded up) - 120, 240, etc - you can watch a "24hz" output movie with even frame repeats.  But only if you turn off the silly "Motion smoothing" option that artificially generates frames to match the display's refresh rate.
• Some streaming content is both being recorded and presented at exactly 24 frames per second with frames repeated inside a 29.97 FPS stream, which looks unnatural compared to all other home media that existed prior - a lot of recent MCU shows have done this for instance.

So long story short, this isn't a 4K issue.   If the motion looks different, it is either due to you having previously watched a PAL-speed version, a wonky streaming version, a poorly-authored standard definition version, or your TV has been generating imaginary frames that your web browser / phone / etc is not doing.

Edited October 13, 2023 by starschwar

[PandaPawPaw]

Bruce is still too fast for 4K.

[sym8]

12 hours ago, starschwar said:

There seems to be some confusion here on a few matters - let me demystify a few things:

 

• Since the advent of sound in film and ignoring some experiments like The Hobbit, motion pictures are, in theaters, displayed at 24 frames per second.
• In standard definition - from VHS all the way up to and including DVD, films were typically displayed at two other frame rates:
• In NTSC format, they were slowed down ever so slightly to 23.976 frames per second, and then to get to the 59.94 HZ refresh rates, were displayed with a 3:2 pattern of frame repeats.
• In PAL format, the films were sped up to 25 frames per second, leading to perfectly even frame repeats on 50HZ displays.  Smoother motion, but faster.
• Sometimes, DVD, laserdisc, or other media would screw up and resample the 23.976 framerate to 50 or 60 HZ leading to an awful blurred image that cannot be reconstructed to filmic look.
• Since the advent of Blu-Ray, films are typically encoded in 23.976 FPS and can be output as such, with frame repeats handled by your display.
• On a TV with a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (rounded up) - 120, 240, etc - you can watch a "24hz" output movie with even frame repeats.  But only if you turn off the silly "Motion smoothing" option that artificially generates frames to match the display's refresh rate.
• Some streaming content is both being recorded and presented at exactly 24 frames per second with frames repeated inside a 29.97 FPS stream, which looks unnatural compared to all other home media that existed prior - a lot of recent MCU shows have done this for instance.

So long story short, this isn't a 4K issue.   If the motion looks different, it is either due to you having previously watched a PAL-speed version, a wonky streaming version, a poorly-authored standard definition version, or your TV has been generating imaginary frames that your web browser / phone / etc is not doing.

Since you seem to be the man in the know,why is the 4K picture darker than say Blu ray or 1080 HD,I watch the Game Of Death stuff which was great then straight after I decided to watch FOF and god was it dark.I’ve tried every setting on my tv and Xbox but no luck.Any advice would be welcome👍

[ChillyChong]

Whoa that face around 1.04. I had been there in dungeon would have ran to opposite direction faster than any sprinter in the world.

Edited October 14, 2023 by ChillyChong

[starschwar]

9 hours ago, sym8 said:

Since you seem to be the man in the know,why is the 4K picture darker than say Blu ray or 1080 HD,I watch the Game Of Death stuff which was great then straight after I decided to watch FOF and god was it dark.I’ve tried every setting on my tv and Xbox but no luck.Any advice would be welcome👍

 

Now, I have no personal experience with 4K, but it sounds to me like this is an issue of HDR - High Dynamic Range.  Traditionally, computer monitors can display a wider ranger of colors than television.  In recent years, TV has caught up and so have home media releases.  HDR releases are encoded with more color information.  However, if there is a point along the chain - settings with the player or display not being correct, to say nothing of any switchers, scalers, surround receivers in between - this can result in the display getting the wrong information and treating one color depth as another.

 

Here's a little example:

This screenshot is taken from Arrow's extended Big Boss Blu-Ray in 1080p.  It retains the color depth as presented on the disc:

 

 

Now here's the same image, but interpreted as though it had full dynamic range:

 

It's assuming that the same "values" for each color are meant to be expressed differently, resulting in an incorrectly dark image.

 

So if your 4K set is looking way too dark, odds are something is set wrong along the line.  I would look into HDR and Color Depth options in menus on both ends and especially in-between if there is something between your player and your TV.

Edited October 14, 2023 by starschwar