Most Hyped, Most anticipated shaw brothers dissapointments.

[Guest Ivy Ling Po]

My biggest disappointment is when after buying an IVL DVD, I discover Celestial has served us a cut print either in frame cuts or censored scenes. Speeded-up action is also very annoying especially when it is not in the original movie but engineered by Celestial.

[Guest Live Wire]

IMO a lot of the venom movies are overhyped. E.g. Two Champions of Shaolin and Rebel Intruders are average at best. Especially the storytelling and the directing of Chang Cheh is bad. Ten Tigers of Kwangtung is another example for this.

[Guest killer meteor]

I enjoyed Ten Tigers because I went in knowing it was going to be rather incompetant in the story department. Had I gone it expecting one of the greatest kung fu films ever, I would have been very disapointed

You know, for a film critc, Chang Cheh really lacked common filmmaking sense at times. Unless, the poorly constructed flashback stuff was done by other hands.

[Guest venomchamber]

You know, for a film critc, Chang Cheh really lacked common filmmaking sense at times. Unless, the poorly constructed flashback stuff was done by other hands.

Exactly.

Ten Tigers Of Kwangtung is essentially two films in one.

Chang Cheh started production on 10 Tigers back in late 77/early 78 and the film was shelved due to Fu Sheng's injury and Wei Pai's abrupt departure.

When filming resumed during 1980, his stable had changed. Gone were Wei Pai, Sun Chien & Lo Mang who had since been replaced by Wang Li, Chien Hsiao-Hao (2 Champions), and Lung Tien-Sheng (The Spearman) among others. Ti Lung was busy with Chu Yuan at the time and Fu Sheng (now recovered) began working with Liu Chia-Liang and would only work with Chang's gang one more time in Brave Archer & His Mate the following year.

So the previously filmed sequences became flashbacks told by the new younger group resulting with a sometimes incoherent film filled with acrobatic and pugilistic fighting.

Chang was older and would often snooze on the set |I leaving the directing to his assistant Chao Kang-Sheng (Chiang Sheng).

The result is one of Chang's weaker efforts, but still manages to be entertaining.

[Guest morgoth]

Hey Chia Ling, I didn't get your post. Are you saying that you view the word overrated the same as the word cult?

[Guest Iron Boat]

Okay this aint Shaw Brothers but I was highly disappointed with Secret Rivals, I thought this was going to be one of the greatest Kung Fu films ever, not even in my top 25.

[Guest Iron Boat]

You know what, I think the Celestial Version of Avenging Eagle is overrated....to me, the old dubbed video was better. I dont know, I guess it appearing so clean ruined the grundgy look and emotion of the film to me. However the extras on that release, the pieces on Fu Sheng and Ti Lung were great.

[Guest TheRover]

Kung Fu Instructor has to the most disappointing of all the Shaw films. It took 4 or 5 different times to watch the film fully.

peace

the rover

[Guest Feng Gang]

Silent Flute summed it up well. I believe alot of confidence is lost in the films because we quickly get over those fond memories. With the quality being better than ever there's really no question about what you saw "back then." It's just a matter of whether it still appeals to your tastes. Personally, my taste in kungfu movies hasn't changed much in 20 years as I am pretty much exclusive to Shaw and uninfluenced by anything else from back then to now. If anything I have a greater respect for what they accomplished and also for lesser actors and extras.

I don't know, when I was a kid I really liked traps and seeing things get broken (doors, walls, signs, chairs) and by traps I mean ambushes, arrows, darts, spears, whatever...

[Guest johnnydragon]

I watch these on channel 5 & USA and before that at the local movie theater then got them on VHS when

they came available then DVD everybody's talking like it's the first time they saw 5 masters of death or two of my personal fav's Kung Fu instructor & Avenging Eagle

are you guy's too young or what? every collector has these movies, for me to see them truly remastered was

all most like watching a new movie! I could see if we

were talking about this at the end of the year and were talking about> lifes gamble,tigress of shaolin, the winged tiger,house of traps(some have bad copies of this)

the pirate (not in German) the young vagabond W/wang yu, gordan liu and so so many more in 07

how are you disappointed with movies you already saw!!!!

at least we have subtitles and DVD's right joysales!!!!

all the titles we voted on to get no subtitles or DVD's

[Guest Chia Ling AKA Judy Lee]

Hey Chia Ling, I didn't get your post. Are you saying that you view the word overrated the same as the word cult?

Hey Morgoth, not at all. I think cult films are difficult to overrate, as people talking about these films have a specialist interest in them so it won't neccesarily appeal to all. I was saying overrating is when everyone regards a film very highly and you feel that it is unwarranted. This will often happen with so called 'classics' of the genre, as fans build up a perception of what they hope the film will be and it falls short.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

kung fu instructor wasnt THAT bad.......it was a good movie, nothin special tho

well, i guess in that sense it is overrated

[Guest venomchamber]

hmmmm...

could it be that Flag Of Iron is disliked because it is a remake of The Duel (Of The Iron Fist)?

I've seen worse films, like Journey Of The Doomed.

[Guest sevenhooks]

#2 Kung Fu Instructor (because of ti lungs sons balls)

That's definitely "The Master Strikes Back", NOT "Kung Fu Instructor".

I dug both of 'em on different levels, but "Kung Fu Instructor" was by FAR the better flick.

GREAT flick actually. One of Sun Chung's best IMO.

Unfortunately, the Celestial/ILV disc all but ruins the film with one of THE worst soundtrack remix jobs EVER.

Sadly, it makes the film all but unwatchable.

Far better to see the vcd or an english dubbed boot.

The one saving grace is the inclusion of the original trailer.

And the only reason I still own the dvd.

And speaking of the kid who plays Ti Lung's son in Master Strikes Back, apparently he grew up to play the title role in "Story of Ricky".

Also the real-life son of "White Powder Ma" (the drug dealer who lost his head in Mickey Rourke's "Year of the Dragon"), aka Fan Mei Sheng.

"Boxer's Omen", "Black Lizard", "14 Amazons" and "Come Drink With Me" stand out as some of the bigger let downs for me.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

^^^thats Fan Siu Wong

hes an INCREDIBLE martial artist....its too bad he never got his due props.....he rocked in Death Games (97).....hes also the wimpy kid in Righting Wrongs

[Guest morgoth]

It was funny to see Fan Siu Wong and his dad in Story of Ricky.

Hey Chia Ling, I guess I don't look at the word overrated the same as you. If someone tells me that a movie is one of the greatest ever, and I only give it a 8 or 9/10, I wouldn't say it is overrated. I would say it is a great movie, and if someone thinks that it is one of the best ever, then they saw something that appealed to them more than it did to me. Now a movie like flag of Iron I would consider overrated. I enjoyed the flag fighting very much, but all of the fights were too short and the movie was very boring. That movie was very disappointing for me. Maybe if they chopped about 45 minutes off the running time I would have liked it more.

[Guest killer meteor]

When I think of overrated, I'm talking about a film many have raved about but to me is medicore - 5/10 - at best

It can depend on which film you see first. The older posters probably saw them as they came out, so the pioneers stand out more, whilst people like me see them in a random fashion. That's why Snake & Crane Arts Of Shaolin stands out for me - it was my first old school film - whilst Five Venoms doesn't do much for me

[Guest jmungus]

interesting for me to hear about ppl`s disappointment with FLAG OF IRON.

ive got the celestial but aint watched yet (cuz ive watched my old FoI copy just a couple of months before the ivl release and i know it by heart from many previous viewings anyways).

now ive always considered FoI one of the venoms`better movies (easily one of their better movies), but that was a version cut by 20, 25 mins.

sounds to me like its those 'new' segments and how they`d influence structure and pace (2 things CC simply never mastered) that make this complete FoI a disappointing affair.

?!?!?

[Guest oldeschool17]

i dont know bout all that. maybe the dont like it cause it just simply didnt appeal to them. I have the IVL release and i liked the movie. Im not one of those people to say the typical, "oh it suffered or could have been better had lo meng and sun chien been in the movie".

[Guest morgoth]

No, I didn't have a problem with any of the actors. I had a problem with the fights being too short and the story. The story moves along with no point to it. We all know Lu Feng is the bad guy cause he is bad in every movie. They didn't try to hide that one bit. The whole plot with the Rambler is really stupid. There is just not much thought put into the movie. For me it doesn't come close to comparing with other venom classic like Golden Arm, Crippled Avengers, 5 Venoms, Invincible Shaolin and Shaolin Rescuers.

[Guest Stuntman Jules]

I'm starting to think most of Chang Cheh's films are quite overrated and overhyped.

A few exceptions would be the stunningly brutal VENGEANCE and THE BOXER FROM SHANTUNG, but the latter is just as much Pao Sueh Li's baby as Chang's as Chang only shot the night footage. THE BLOOD BROTHERS is great too, since it is one of his more character driven films. THE ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN movies are also decent and I did like FIVE SHAOLIN MASTERS too.

But everything else, not so good. His historical epics are pretty messy and hilariously inaccurate (part of their charm, I know, but still). His Venoms movies are terrible (they totally lack the charisma of David Chiang and Ti Lung) and SHANGHAI 13, one of his last films, is one of the worst Hong Kong martial arts films I've ever seen.

Another overrated SB director is Lau Kar Leung. Blasphemy, I know, but the only Lau films that really did it for me were THE 36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN and EIGHT DIAGRAM POLE FIGHTER. Those two movies are superb, but everything else he's made is really way too silly.

Sun Chung is the best Shaw Brothers director, by far. HUMAN LANTERNS is my favorite Shaw Brothers movie and AVENGING EAGLE and THE SEXY KILLER are close behind. Though Chor Yuen, when he's not making confusing as hell Gu Long movies, is great too and Kuei Chih Hung's made some real masterpieces as well.

[Linn1]

but the latter is just as much Pao Sueh Li's baby as Chang's as Chang only shot the night footage.

this is not correct according to the DP of the film itself. Pao only shot a small amount of footage for Boxer, more or less second unit. And that film was completely Chang's baby from execution to art direction, the HKFA have his notes for the film and it was NOT a film thrown together to give Pao some experence like others were. Part of the big problem with Chang Cheh is this very thing, he gave too much of a chance to young directors. While it made him a great man, loved by everyone, in many cases his name was attached to films that were brought down by his co-director's lack of experence and the fact that Chang was often filming two films at once.The sloppyness of most of his historical epics IMO is down to this as well, as the other director's segments were often the messy bits. Like the ship scenes in All Men Are Brothers, etc.

[Guest Stuntman Jules]

That's weird, because Chen Kuan Tai said in an interview that Pao Sueh Li shot all the day stuff and Chang Cheh shot only at night. Maybe his memory isn't that great.

[Guest morgoth]

I don't know where to start with chang Cheh, but since Lau didn't direct near as many movies I will focus on him. Only 2 movies from him are superb in your opinion? What about Shaolin Mantis, Heroes of the East, Executioners of Shaolin, Dirty Ho and Return to the 36th Chamber? There was comedy, but it wasn't too silly. All of those movies had something very special about them. IMO they are every bit as good as 8 diagram Pole Fighter and 36th Chamber because of how unique they are. Here is what I am talking about.

Shaolin Mantis- great love story and probably David Chiang's best kung fu performance.

Executioners- bedroom kung fu! And Kuan Tai and Lo Lieh are badass.

Heroes of the East- do I really need to point out all the great things about this movie?

Dirty Ho- you have to see Kara Hui's fight if you haven't already and Lung Wei, Wilson Tong and Lo Lieh are superb in this.

Return to 36th chamber- one of my favorite comedies. Not nearly as over the top as Disciples. There are also some touching moments. But of course this movie is one of the best cause of the end fghts.

[Guest oldeschool17]

Disciples of 36 Chambers and Martial Arts of Shaolin pissed me off with too much juvenile comedy/angst.

I thought Clan of the White Lotus was overrated too. It was a lil too "gay" for me in certain spots(i understand the point of feminine touch etc, but meh) and the constant training/get asswhooped/training more/go back to fight get asswhooped process was boring to me. The final with the acupuncture scenes were cool though.