Guest tarim69 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Chang Cheh junk? The man who gave us Have Sword Will Travel, Blood Brothers,Chinatown Kid, Five Venoms,Savage Five,King Eagle,Duel of Fists, The Boxer From ShanTung,Shaolin Temple,Disciples of Shaolin,Marco Polo,Invincible Shaolin and the list goes on. Shaolin Martial Arts was a film that grew and grew on me, liking it more each time I saw it. IMHO Shaolin Martial Arts is one of the greatest martial arts films ever made. I was going to go into a lengthy reason why but am saving that for my top50 list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Wouldn't Shaolin Temple precede 5 Masters? In terms of continuity, it most certainly would! However, Shaolin Temple is a prequel and Chang's first Shaolin film for the Shaw Brothers studio. It was also the first with the venoms mob and without Liu Chia-Liang. I consider this the passing of the torch as it had members from 3 of Chang's stables in it! (*Early 70s, Shaolin cycle, Venoms mob) But I was trying to convey an evolutionary timeline implying Shaolin Martial-Arts is an older movie, and at the time (1974) there wasn't anything like it! While many seem to bash it (and Chang Cheh for whatever reason) they fail to realize when it was made, and that authentic Shaolin martial-arts movies were just seeing the light of day for the first time thanks to Liu Chia-Liang. I cannot fathom why all of a sudden Chang Cheh and his films do not get the recognition or respect they deserve. If it weren't for him and his body of work, quite possibly there would have been no kung-fu movie market in the first place. It would have died out with indie drek like Blood Fingers, Fearless Fighters and hordes of lousy Bruce Li imitations. :x Remember, this film (as well as all of the other films in Chang's Shaolin cycle) predates The 36th Chamber Of Shaolin. Most other films made during the early-70s period were of the 'swing your arms and scream like a lunatic', 'jump over the mountain peak and land like Superman', 'hop around on one finger' and 'leap across the river to Planet Of The Apes music' variety with greasy, bearded thugs in psychedelic kimonos calling karate chops 'kung-fu' with little or no authenticity whatsoever. :x If you saw this back in '74, you would have been amazed as it was only the third of its kind and a breath of fresh air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAZ74 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Chang Cheh had some great movies. His late 60's/early 70's films are among my favorites - Vengeance, The Assassin. Basically, all the "Iron Triangle" films. After that, I lose interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The "Iron Triangle" of CC/DC/TL is much the best! Bonus points if Ching Li plays Ti Lung's love interest...again! *Can't wait for The Pirate so I can be rid of my cut German dubbed bootleg tape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tino Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Let this be a lesson to newbies and everyone, don't trash Chang Cheh. You will suffer from the forum member's keyboard kung fu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Chang Cheh's films with Jimmy Wang Yu and David Chiang/Ti Lung are generally consistent in quality. The Shaolin cycle is generally lacking in budget, script quality and direction by comparison. The Venoms pics improve because of the superior action direction and the way the stars interact better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peringaten Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The Shaolin cycle is generally lacking in budget, script quality and direction by comparison.Wowzers! I disagree with this so hard, it's ridiculous. Good lord, man - so much, you even made me say wowzers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teako170 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Shaolin Temple is a prequel and Chang's first Shaolin film for the Shaw Brothers studio. Umm, maybe I misunderstood your intention here but "Heroes Two" was CC's first Shaolin series film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted September 10, 2007 Member Share Posted September 10, 2007 A Cheng Cheh movie is like sex or take-out Chinese food: even when it's bad, it's still pretty damn good. :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Wowzers! I disagree with this so hard, it's ridiculous. Good lord, man - so much, you even made me say wowzers. Hey, it's just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tosh Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 A-goo-ba-ga-baaaaa... wtf???:rollin I can't wait to see this one soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tarim69 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Everyone has their own opinion. To some for example,8 Diagram Pole Fighter, Legendary Weapons and Masked Avengers are holy and I cant stand any of those films. I strongly disagree about about Changs writting though. He had many films where plot, not martial arts, drive the film. Chang was all about balls, bravery and blood - things he stressed. He also seemed to be influenced by westerns and a couple of my favorites from him , Savage 5 and Have Sword Will Travel are definitely westerns. God I love his films. It kind of makes me sad to see Shaw enthuaists tearing him down so much, because IMHO he was a important filmmaker. As for Shaolin Martial Arts, its one of my all time favorites. Its really the perfect martial arts film.It had a amazing cast as well including the awesome, underrated, underused Leung Kar-yan as well as my personal fav team of scumbags(I mean that with love)Kong Do and Fung Hak-on. "lacking in budget, script quality and direction by comparison" IMHO, that sounds more like the films of the 80s(with exeptions of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 However, Shaolin Temple is a prequel and Chang's first Shaolin film for the Shaw Brothers studio. I think you mean last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peringaten Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hey, it's just an opinion.For sure, the connotation wasn't to imply that you're ridiculous or that my point is worthier, just how different our perceptions are, for better or for worse. I honestly believe the Shaolin Cycle Chang's highpoint, some of his most vital, focused, filmmaking as I react to it, that I popped out a wowzers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Egocentrik1 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 the movie goes a bit slow at times but the kung fu displayed is much better than in some of the other shaolin series movies.. and better than any of the overrated venom flicks:rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis FIST Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yeah the movie is it a bit slow, but I've always enjoyed the training sequences. I guess Q.T. liked some as well! AS far as the cycle, I always thought Men from the Monastery was the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TambaChibaYama IchiFune Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Have all of Changs' Shaolin cycle movies been released by Celestial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I think they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis FIST Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 yes tambachiba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 However, Shaolin Temple is a prequel and Chang's first Shaolin film for the Shaw Brothers studio. YES! I think you mean last. Nope! HEROES TWO technically speaking was not a Shaw Brothers production and was not filmed in Hong Kong, but in Taiwan, and only financially backed by the Shaws as a satellite company known as CHANG'S FILM COMPANY. (This is why some fans consider these earlier films lacking in budget.) SHAOLIN TEMPLE was the final film in Chang's original Shaolin cycle and the first to be filmed entirely at the Shaw Brothers studios back in Hong Kong, interior sets and all. It was with Chang's return to HK after closing his company in Taiwan that he brought along a half dozen Taiwanese skilled in Peking Opera, a Tae Kwan-Do practioner fresh out of the army and hired a certain well-built young man with no beard who makes his debut in this film as a slain monk! In 1983, Chang would return to Taiwan with a handful of his cohorts and churn out several more films of lesser quality due to the lack of Shaw's financial backing this time. Got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Umm, maybe I misunderstood your intention here but "Heroes Two" was CC's first Shaolin series film. Yes of course I am fully aware of that and even listed it in a previous post on page 1! However, it is not a Shaw Brothers film. SHAOLIN TEMPLE aka DEATH CHAMBER was the very first Shaolin film to be made at Shaws, even pre-dating Liu Chia-Liang's THE 36th CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN and was celebrated as such during its initial release! (*See the above post for details!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bjv Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (This message was left blank) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Nope! HEROES TWO technically speaking was not a Shaw Brothers production and was not filmed in Hong Kong, but in Taiwan, and only financially backed by the Shaws as a satellite company known as CHANG'S FILM COMPANY. Basically BJV said it all.... Chang's Film IS Shaw Bros (just as Golden Way is Golden Harvest). They produced and financed everything. Thus Shaolin Temple was the LAST Shaolin film Chang made for Shaw Bros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venomchamber Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 To quote the HONG KONG FILM ARCHIVE: "In 1974, with the support of Shaw Brothers, Chang founded Chang's Film Company, using Taiwan as its production base and made a dozen films there, including Heroes Two/Fang Shiyu Hong Xiguan (1974), Shaolin Martial-Arts/Hongquan Yu Yongchun (1974), Disciples Of Shaolin/Hongquan Xiaozi (1975), etc. He returned to Shaw Brothers after Chang's closed down in 1976." -----If you look around, you'll see nothing but Shaw sets (can't miss the HILL with the trees in HEROES 2 and MEN FROM THE MONASTERY) in the early Shaolin Cycle films. THE SAND PEBBLES with Steve McQueen and THE MILLION EYES OF SUMARU with Shirley Eaton and Frankie Avalon were both filmed on Shaw sets from COME DRINK WITH ME and ANGEL WITH THE IRON FISTS, and even co-star David Chiang's older brother Paul Chin Pei, as well as Shaw contract players Paul Chang Chung and Essie Lin Chia, but they are not Shaw Brothers Productions because of this! >>>>>he brought along a half dozen Taiwanese skilled in Peking Opera actually, more than a half dozen! I was referring to actors, not the behind the scenes stuntmen/extras that nobody is familiar with. (the half dozen or so included Kuo Chue, Lu Feng, Chao Kang-Sheng (Chiang Sheng), Robert Tai Chi-Hsien, Yu Tai Ping, etc.) In fact, the opening moments of the original theatrical trailer for SHAOLIN TEMPLE proudly exclaim 'ANOTHER GREAT ACHIEVEMENT' 'TO MARK HIS RETURN TO SHAWS' 'A BIG-BUDGET SUPER PRODUCTION' plus all of the promotional printed material (including HONG KONG MOVIE NEWS) I have amassed in my archives herald this banner: 'DIRECTOR CHANG CHEH'S TRIUMPHANT RETURN TO SHAWS!' as well. -- Parent (main) company was always in Hong Kong Chang's Co. was a temporary investment made to utilize Shaw funds tied-up in Taiwan. Once depleted, company closed. As a matter of fact, Lo Mang himself was in Taiwan at the time as he was the Accountant Clerk for Chang's Film Company and was in charge of their salaries! (*Lo Mang [billed as "Tubo Law"] can be seen and heard discussing his time at Chang's Film Co that lead to him being cast in SHAOLIN TEMPLE on Celestial's "THE ANONYMOUS HEROES" DVD, of all places. This should have been placed as a bonus feature on movies he actually starred in!) >>>>>a Tae Kwan-Do practioner fresh out of the army - if he was in YOUNG PEOPLE (1972), then he wasn't FRESH out of anything (4) years later, lol. I was speaking of Sun Chien, who is not in YOUNG PEOPLE. (*If he is :eek , nobody has ever noticed it before, including myself, and that would make him just an extra, probably after school hours.) What's more, here's a scoop from the issue #226 of SOUTHERN SCREEN dated JAN 1977: SUN CHIEN A NEW COMER Ace director Chang Cheh has in the past discovered and encouraged a number of budding actors who have since become film idols. The director recently took in yet another new face, the 21 year old Sun Chien-Yuan, who has subsequently signed an eight year contract with Shaw Bros. Sun is currently appearing in Director Chang's new crime epic, tentatively entitled "The Chap From Chinatown", co-starring kung-fu idol Fu Sheng. The film will be shot on location in Hong Kong, Thailand and America. ...and here's the important part: Sun Chien-yuan was conscripted into the Taiwan Armed Forces after leaving school, and after serving his time, he was idle until he was spotted by Director Chang, who was struck by his personality. The story of "The Chap From Chinatown" tells of an innocent youngster and his experiences in society after leaving school. At the present time, Director Chang is in Hong Kong where he came to attend the wedding of Fu Sheng to Taiwan songstress Jenny. There is also a 4 page interview discussing how Director Chang Cheh is shuttling between Hong Kong and Taiwan in connection with his filming. --- Even during this time, it was the 1st film Chang shot dealing with the Shaolin Temple, to show Shaolin students with BALD heads !! Agreed All the films Chang shot, belonged to Shaw studios. He was a (trusted) employee, given a lot of freedom to create films (which made the studio more money). Agreed ---- He was no longer a Shaw employee during that time, there was no need to finance him. However, in is unclear as to exactly why Chang Cheh decided to part ways with the company he spent the passed 20 years with back in 1983 and return to Taiwan to produce indie films thru his own Chang Ho Film Company aka Long River without the Shaw's support. Perhaps they no longer gave him the creative freedom he desired, or perhaps Mona Fong demanded he cast more female roles in his films which he strongly opposed? Perhaps we may never know the truth behind that answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest killer meteor Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Thanks for that = puts paid to the story that Sun Chian was a Korean who spoke little Chinese Chap From Chinatown - dear me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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