Magnificient Ruffians and Life Gamble, verdicts in???

[Guest The Amazing Psychoper]

Nobody has any comments concerning these two??? I ordored MR but it's not in yet... I was wandering if Life Gamble was living up to the hype... What do you guys think of them?

The Amazing Psycho Per :evil

[Guest Steve Barr]

Magnificent Ruffians -- The bulk of this film is the Venoms horsing around. The rest is the Venoms trying to kill each other. The end fight is justly well-regarded, but it does take some effort to sit through all the horseplay and the creaky storytelling in the film.

Life Gamble -- Clearly Chang Cheh was asleep when this was ghost-directed by Chu Yuan. Valuable jade has been stolen and the film covers the twists and twists and twists as man, woman, and cyborg try to get it for themselves. Lust, betrayal, secret weapons, and more secret weapons all collide in mid-air making for one of the most enjoyable Chang Cheh films I've seen. Highly recommended.

[Guest The Amazing Psychoper]

it does take some effort to sit through all the horseplay and the creaky storytelling in the film.

Really?!? I've oftenseen MR mentionned as one of the best venoms... Is there a lot of action???

How's the fighting choreography in Life Gamble?

The Amazing Psycho Per :evil

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

it does take some effort to sit through all the horseplay and the creaky storytelling in the film.

"Really!?!"

No not really. this film is very well written and IS highly regarded as one of their best. Lu Feng is a truly evil, cunning, cold blooded, spoiled rich son of a great hero who has mastered his fathers weapon and is bored that in his era he has no-one to challenge him. So he sets up job interviews to challenge pontential employees against his twelve wheels of the sun technique (or something to this effect) of his, only to give them an offer they can't survive.

The story is actually quite amusing here and the acting is probably regarded by many as their most earnest in effort. Lo Mang is awesome with his attityude here.

[Guest Steve Barr]

Really?!? I've oftenseen MR mentionned as one of the best venoms...

Obviously it all depends on what you like. I'd rather see the Venoms doing intricately-choreographed fight scenes than joking around.

this film is very well written[...]

Leaving aside the fact that if Lu Feng's character wanted people to fight he could, I don't know, train a few, my favorite poorly written moment is when, out of the blue, a non-martial artist restaurant cashier comes to the abandoned temple the Venoms use to train and passes on critical information about the villian's style. That's just poor writing.

Is there a lot of action???

Depends -- the end fight is certainly worth seeing. Before that there are a lot of short combats and training/friendly duels. But it's not Five Element Ninjas or something.

How's the fighting choreography in Life Gamble?

Fine, as usual for a Venoms film.

[Guest TheRover]

Life Gamble -- Clearly Chang Cheh was asleep when this was ghost-directed by Chu Yuan. Valuable jade has been stolen and the film covers the twists and twists and twists as man, woman, and cyborg try to get it for themselves. Lust, betrayal, secret weapons, and more secret weapons all collide in mid-air making for one of the most enjoyable Chang Cheh films I've seen. Highly recommended.

So True!!! Life Gamble is a Great film... Finally On DVD!!!

[Guest venomchamber]

These two films, as well as THE HOUSE OF TRAPS were all great DVD releases. I am no stranger to these films as I have watched my copies of them for decades, and I am biased and enjoy them completely, minor flaws and all.

MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS has been around in English for years as THE DESTROYERS and I am surprised there are still fans out there who haven't seen this film yet!

If you enjoyed DAREDEVILS and REBEL INTRUDERS then I'm sure you'll like this one. You'll also want to check out SHAOLIN RESCUERS when it comes out this October as it is in the same comedic-drama vein. (If you can't wait that long to see it, it has been around in English as AVENGING WARRIORS OF SHAOLIN for ages now and is easily obtainable.) You'll notice any movie that features the venoms mob as bums will have comedy and we can thank the competing films made with Jackie Chan over at Sesonal Films for that influence. Comedic kung-fu appealed to the Cantonese market while the more straightforward wu-xia films were favored more by the Mandarin mainland. Liu Chia-Liang would also implement this light-hearted approach to his films.

In short HOUSE OF TRAPS is one of Chang's latter baroque period thrillers similar to MASKED AVENGERS, THE FLAG OF IRON and perhaps SWORD STAINED WITH ROYAL BLOOD, so if you liked those previous DVD releases, then I'm sure you'll like this one too!

*POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT*

Now then, LIFE GAMBLE is a breath of fresh air as it is a gripping and intriguing departure from the usual Chang Cheh fare. First there are 4 female lead chracters which is unusual in a Chang Cheh film, secondly Fu Sheng does not use any kung-fu in this film, just throwing knives, and third was the intersting mis-casting...Ku Feng as a chief constable, Lo Mang as a knife-throwing swordsman, Tang Yen-Tsan as the strongman impervious to weapons, and Li Yi-Min as the villain! Seems like they were destined to switch places! Talk about role reversal, only this came before the standard was set and everybody would become typecast in later films.

However, some things never change...Kuo Chue is still the main focus of the story, Lo Mang still dies after his stomach is pierced, and Lu Feng is still the insidious traitor and acquires a metal hand that shoots darts which he would later use again in CRIPPLED AVENGERS the following year!

This film is without a doubt the best of the lot, and that's not just because the old copy was so poor! If you enjoy epic style films with large casts like THE BRAVE ARCHER then this one is for you!

[Guest iron flag]

Man, always amazes me how many venom haters there are here! Magnificent Ruffians rocks. I can think of no reason not to pick it up unless you...hate the venoms?

[Guest remo]

Venomchamber's post is pretty spoilerish if you've never seen Life Gamble, like me

[Guest venomchamber]

...Sorry about that. My bad...I'll edit the post and add a spoiler alert.

The film's story is very thick with plots & twists and I'm sure you'll still enjoy seeing this gem.

Again, I apologize for the unintentional spoiler.

[bobo]

LIFE GAMBLE- in my humble opinion this is easily one of the best shaws-- good story--lots of characters--good fights--no comedy--a multitude of weapons skills and good old fashioned violence--chang cheh style. believe me you won,t regret getting this one. i,ve only got the old faded dub version- i,m hopeing someone like dragondynasty will have the good sense to release this one. yes with the dub.

[Guest Steve Barr]

Man, always amazes me how many venom haters there are here! Magnificent Ruffians rocks. I can think of no reason not to pick it up unless you...hate the venoms?

Here's a new thought: Just because someone isn't blindly uncritical about everything the Venoms ever did doesn't make them a "hater." Let's keep the forum free of the childish name calling found elsewhere, OK?

[Guest iron flag]

Take it easy....Nothing personal. Thats your opinion. Theres never been a KF movie made that was 100% fights. If the rest of the film consists of Venoms male bonding doesn't make it bad. Unless you have "something against" the venoms

[Guest BKarza]

I adore the Veoms. There are my favorites hands down. With that said, I don't really like most of their stuff, as movies.

The early stuff was strongest, the latter stuff had incredible chor. but weak stories. I really don't care for Flag of Iron, House of Traps, Ode to Gallantry, Masked Avengers, Shaolin Rescuers, The BA stuff(I like BA2 story wise for the most part), or 2 Champions of Shaolin. That's a lot. I adore the action and watching them onscreen but the movies just...nope.

Magnificent Ruffians is one of my favorites from them. Definately top 4 or 5, for me. Love it.

Most of what I don't care for falls on CC. Most of what I like is due to them and the base of CC ideas for a movie. Themes are understood but the whole didn't work. The Duel and Flag of Iron are prime examples for me. One is mezmerising, cool and taut. The other is long, unengaging and flat in it's execution. I love the action in both. But like only one of them.

[Guest remo]

"Again, I apologize for the unintentional spoiler."

No big deal. Like you say, you pretty much know what to expect from a Venoms movie anyway.

[Guest iron flag]

Well, I agree with you about the BA series |I

Interesting perspective on the others you dont like. You really dont like Masked Avengers? :eek

[Guest BKarza]

As a movie it's dark. I don't mind dark, but I didn't find it to be an interesting or engaging dark. Just a non entertaining dark. I do think it could have worked done other ways but that's my thinking. CC's latter Shaws were too linear and lacked the depth of his work just 2-3 years before.

Now the action!!! Hot damn. Can you say Chu Ko?

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

my favorite poorly written moment is when, out of the blue, a non-martial artist restaurant cashier comes to the abandoned temple the Venoms use to train and passes on critical information about the villian's style. That's just poor writing.

You completely misunderstood that scene. The guy's not a restaurant cashier. He's the manager who works for Lu Feng, and who's lived in that town some time now, and knows the history of Lu Feng's family. It's not out of the blue. Everyone in town would know by then what's goin on anywhere within it's vicinity. That's how it was back then, before tv, the internet, and people locking themselves in their homes after work. People back then conversed and gossiped about every little happening going on in a small town (or village).

Five Elements Ninja's comes no-where's near as true as this film.

Nor do any of those independent films mentioned previously, Born Invincible, etc. can't even touch the venom's, IMHO.

Magnificent Ruffians dosen't comprise a mere action/revenge flick. This film like: The Bastard, touches profoundly on the huge differences in class' of society back then, and just how down and out and starving to death many were in those days.

You missed the whole premise of the storyline. There's nothing really silly about it, rather it's the three vagabonds, Chiang Sheng in particular, who keeps his spirits up throughout literally starving to death with his two companions and having to sell their only possession *(his family heirlooms/two swords) to EAT. Oh, by the way the abandoned temple was the only place they could sleep with a roof over their heads. This is probably one of the most serious, realistic and depressing, Venom's flick ever made.

[Guest Steve Barr]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

You completely misunderstood that scene.

No, I didn't. It was an infodump to move the plot along. IMO it would have been better if they got the info another way, such as by overhearing some of Lu Feng's guards talking, secretly seeing Lu Feng practice, getting the guards drunk and asking them, etc.

The guy's not a restaurant cashier.

IIRC, the subs disagree with you. But yes, I'm sure he's lived in the town.

It's not out of the blue.

I, personally, don't find it plausible he would know of their hangout given not many people did and they had moved into Lu Feng's place.

You missed the whole premise of the storyline.

No, I just don't find it that compelling given that it's played for laughs. If they were really desperate, they could easily have turned their skills to robbery, for example.

[Guest Ching li]

Did any of the ladies in life gamble had fighting roles?

[Guest thejadefacedassassin]

Let's see....we have Shirley Yu, Lin Chen-chi and Liu Hui-ling.

All of them fight albeit briefly.

None of them are given much opportunity by Chang Cheh to shine though they look ferocious.

Why, Shirley Yu is not even given an opportunity to bare her best assets!

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

Did any of the ladies in life gamble had fighting roles?

Yes. Two out of the three did. Though their action is somewhat sparse.

Just watched this last night. I must say upon veiwing Life Gamble remastered and in it's native tongue, it really kinda blew me away, I mean what Celestial has done. I never thought I'd see Life Gamble in this light. It was great. The story is actually very cool, though this film is a bit on the weaker side of Venom's representation and a bit pretentious on the actors parts (probably due to the director), I still love it. I have to say House Of Traps choreographing is superior to Life Gamble. Where does Life Gamble lie in the Venom's filmography? It has a very naive, sort of not yet developed, feel to the acting and choreographing. Life Gamble comes off as though it may have been the third Venom's film, right after Crippled Avengers or maybe the fourth venture in their illustrious career. Great film. Gonna be rewatching Life Gamble and House Of Traps over quite soon I know it.

Now, Magnificent Ruffians is on the table for tonight. This is gonna be another real treat.

[Guest venomchamber]

Life Gamble is actually pre-venoms!

Shooting began in 1977 between The Brave Archer parts 1 & 2 and wrapped-up in '78 for a release in '79.

Li Yi-Min was still a part of Chang's gang and Chao Kang-Seng hadn't even changed his name to Chiang Sheng yet!

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

venomchamber, but what about Five Deadly Vemons and Crippled Avengers? Are they post Brave Acher's series? I know I could dig through my collection and probably answer most of these questions, but if ya happen to know the filmography of the top of your head, what would it be?

[Guest Ching li]

So given when this movie started to shoot, i guess that explains why sun chien wasn't a part of the cast. He didn't join up until Chinatown kid which i think came after the brave archer and this movie was shot between the brave archer part I&II