How disrespectful to Bruce Lee was the original 1978 release of Game of Death.

[PandaPawPaw]

Was Linda at the premiere of GOD?

[Cognoscente]

Not the HK premiere, only the US one.

[PandaPawPaw]

Well I guess she had no problem with the movie then?

[Cognoscente]

It's not like she was treated to an advanced screening. She was probably as shocked as everyone who weren't privy to the editing.

[Killer Meteor]

10 hours ago, tomgray2404 said:

True, but Tower of Death was released solely for an Asian audience.

I am surprised it didn't get a US or UK theatrical release...but considering it has even less of Bruce than the first film, maybe they didn't want to push their luck!

[J.J. Hayden]

4 minutes ago, Killer Meteor said:

I am surprised it didn't get a US or UK theatrical release...but considering it has even less of Bruce than the first film, maybe they didn't want to push their luck!

That helicopter flying around, carrying a coffin with a giant gold swastika on it wouldn't of helped either  

[Killer Meteor]

7 hours ago, Josh Baker said:

However left to his own devices Bruce's direction of actors is borderline student film- esque in WOTD but he was a first time director so it's understandable, and i still maintain the film generally works as a blend of action and comedy, and he improved a lot come GOD.

 

Bruce and Lo make the same mistake on all three movies - too many supporting actors who all have to stand in a row like a school play and get in their line or two. WAY mostly focuses on the main waiters played by GH regulars...but then Bruce sticks in Robert Chan and family friend Wu Ngan, who do next-to-nothing in the movie.

[saltysam]

I have a great deal of affection for GOD as it was the first Bruce movie i saw, Scala Cinema Liverpool 1978. Funeral footage is completely tasteless but i find the film entertaining with a superb John Barry score.

[Killer Meteor]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:01 PM, BornToDefense said:

 

 

Even Lo Wei as a director seems to have gone through a certain degree of critical re-evaluation. Though all of the HK film texts I've read seem to have taken him at least somewhat seriously in the first place, which is an interesting contrast to US/UK books I've read which tend to take for granted the idea that he was a hack (most recently Polly's).

I remember when I was at college 20 years, Lo Wei was known to my lecturer as a hack, but at the time all we would have seen were his BL movies (which have moments of Ed Wood sloppiness in them), and his later Jackie Chan movies, who are mostly bonkers.

Seeing Lo's Shaw films reveal a talented director - I'd say his output from 68-71 at that studio is consistently more polished and varied then what Chang Cheh was doing.

[Killer Meteor]

On 2/17/2023 at 4:52 AM, Cognoscente said:

Most of the rip-offs came out after Clouse had been hired to finish the film e.g. Duel with the Devils (released in September 1977), The True Game of Death (1979) and Enter the Game of Death (1981). It's not a coincidence that the two co-stars who had their roles reduced/removed just happened to be two guys who didn't attend Bruce's funeral.

 

The problem likely was that the first rip-off, TRUE GAME OF DEATH, got a big release worldwide in 1975 (even in HK, which didnt' normally seem to touch the Bruceploitation titles) so that probably helped shift the focus to getting "real" actors into the movie so that audiences and distributors didn't get burnt again.

 

ENTER THE GAME OF DEATH was released in '78 in Korean and seems to be based on what Bruce originally had planned more (even down to one of the temple guardians turning on a red light), whilst TRUE GAME OF DEATH uses Clouse's version as its template.

 

I don't think Tien and Chieh not being at the funeral had much to do with reducing their roles (though it is telling that Tien was already being a bit touchy around the Bruce subject as early as '73), and I'm not sure when Chieh died in relation to GOD'78 starting production. But I do wonder if Roy Chiao's line "I know some men who can help you" was originally meant to introduce them (either via the original actors returning or doubles) and the original plan was to see more (perhaps all?) of the '78 footage?

[shukocarl1441996347]

4 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

The problem likely was that the first rip-off, TRUE GAME OF DEATH, got a big release worldwide in 1975 (even in HK, which didnt' normally seem to touch the Bruceploitation titles) so that probably helped shift the focus to getting "real" actors into the movie so that audiences and distributors didn't get burnt again.

 

ENTER THE GAME OF DEATH was released in '78 in Korean and seems to be based on what Bruce originally had planned more (even down to one of the temple guardians turning on a red light), whilst TRUE GAME OF DEATH uses Clouse's version as its template.

 

I don't think Tien and Chieh not being at the funeral had much to do with reducing their roles (though it is telling that Tien was already being a bit touchy around the Bruce subject as early as '73), and I'm not sure when Chieh died in relation to GOD'78 starting production. But I do wonder if Roy Chiao's line "I know some men who can help you" was originally meant to introduce them (either via the original actors returning or doubles) and the original plan was to see more (perhaps all?) of the '78 footage?

I think you mean GOODBYE BRUCE LEE-HIS LAST GAME OF DEATH aka THE NEW GAME OF DEATH starring Bruce Li (or Lee Roy Lung as he's billed) in 1975?

[Omni Dragon]

5 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

I am surprised it didn't get a US or UK theatrical release...but considering it has even less of Bruce than the first film, maybe they didn't want to push their luck!

Looks like the BBFC classified it for cinemas in 1983:

https://www.bbfc.co.uk/release/game-of-death-2-q29sbgvjdglvbjpwwc0zmdu1nzc

Quote

I'm assuming the mention of 3D is an error.

[TheKungFuRobber]

16 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

I'm reminded of the '80s Transformers movie - Stan Bush and Lion contributed to the soundtrack.

I love that film.

[TheKungFuRobber]

17 hours ago, PandaPawPaw said:

Yeah well.......well Tower of Death had some bush in it and I don't mean the Lion.

yeah... i don't know why they did that, threw bush in there to upset me I think I was enjoying the hammy acting and the fights. I think the lion might have saved that scene lol. He's the movie's greatest hero.

[Brucemee]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:39 AM, Josh Baker said:

I agree, Bruce wasn't as into stunts as Jimmy, and the film is fully into action and weirdness and Bruce probably considered it too superficial a concept. 

It's a bit speculative to suggest what Bruce would or wouldn't have done in a Dirty Harry type movie as we never got to see him star in a modern action movie in an urban setting, I'd guess that he could've done at least as much climbing, for instance, as Chuck Norris did himself in Missing In Action, Bruce was after all strong, light, & pretty flexible, he was kind of built for something like climbing. Even if he didn't end up doing his own stunts I suspect he would have more than made up for that with superior fight scenes. The movie I think Bruce would have been great in would have been Robert Clouse's Ultimate Warrior (which Yul Brynner ended up starring in); the first time I saw that movie I thought Clouse originally wrote this with Bruce in mind, I suspect that when Clouse got back to The States after shooting ETD he immediately started working on another script idea for Bruce & Ultimate Warrior was that script.

[Cognoscente]

9 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

The problem likely was that the first rip-off, TRUE GAME OF DEATH, got a big release worldwide in 1975 (even in HK, which didnt' normally seem to touch the Bruceploitation titles) so that probably helped shift the focus to getting "real" actors into the movie so that audiences and distributors didn't get burnt again.

ENTER THE GAME OF DEATH was released in '78 in Korean and seems to be based on what Bruce originally had planned more (even down to one of the temple guardians turning on a red light), whilst TRUE GAME OF DEATH uses Clouse's version as its template.

I don't think Tien and Chieh not being at the funeral had much to do with reducing their roles (though it is telling that Tien was already being a bit touchy around the Bruce subject as early as '73), and I'm not sure when Chieh died in relation to GOD'78 starting production. But I do wonder if Roy Chiao's line "I know some men who can help you" was originally meant to introduce them (either via the original actors returning or doubles) and the original plan was to see more (perhaps all?) of the '78 footage?

Unlike most twin films*, people would have been perceptive enough to know when they were seeing the original. Golden Harvest's logo on the poster, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's name/image in publicity materials, and the trailer would have been a seal of approval. Before Bruce died, there were already stills and production photos of his project shown in magazines.

There was a 1975 issue of Fighting Stars (featuring an Inosanto interview) which made it clear what Bruce's original film looked like, so GH didn't have to worry too much about New Game of Death fooling audiences. The timing of the issue is peculiar. It could easily have come out in 1973 or even in the late '70s, but I suspect that GH wanted people to be reminded of what the real McCoy looked like so that NGOD wasn't a big hit.

ETGOD being released in HK circa 1981 was an example of a Johnny-come-lately. In Korea, it was released in November 1978 - way after the HK release of GOD. In Korea, GOD came out in May. So Raymond Chow had no excuse to change the plot. What made Lee's version of the pagoda concept stand out was that he had allies accompanying him on his raid. Removing one ally while taking another ally out of context was counterintuitive. It's almost as if Chow didn't want international journalists to interview Tien and Chieh about their involvement in the original. With Chow's logic, he might as well have shelved the film and only incorporate the original footage into a documentary about Bruce's life.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_films

4 hours ago, Omni Dragon said:

I'm assuming the mention of 3D is an error.

There are a few shots where people do things towards the camera, so Golden Harvest may have been hoping to sell the film on the basis of it being the first time that a "Bruce Lee" movie was shown in 3D.

[Killer Meteor]

5 hours ago, shukocarl1441996347 said:

I think you mean GOODBYE BRUCE LEE-HIS LAST GAME OF DEATH aka THE NEW GAME OF DEATH starring Bruce Li (or Lee Roy Lung as he's billed) in 1975?

So I did! Damn, I'm getting worried now.

[Brucemee]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:14 AM, WangYu said:

I don’t like the footage of GoD that wasn’t used for the Clouse film. It is too much stop start in nature, Bruce talks too much, his adversaries pose little threat.  Bruce comes off as a know it all that can’t be touched. I consider them his worst filmed fight scenes.

His best most rounded and emotionally engaging films were the big boss and fist of fury. I also like his performance and intensity in enter the dragon but as I said earlier it is not a good film.

While I'd agree the GOD fight scenes weren't Bruce's best, at least for my taste, & I've always thought Bruce was doing too much telling instead of showing when it came to the ideas like being flexible/adaptable (he hadn't had a chance to mature as a film maker, either as a writer or a director), I wouldn't say he came off as untouchable in that footage. Han Jae Ji manages to kick & throw him at least a couple times, Bruce is shown to be getting tired before he climbs the stairs to face Kareem, & Kareem hits Bruce repeatedly (the famous foot print on the chest being an obvious reminder of that), &, again, Bruce is clearly shown to be exhausted at the end of that final fight.

I don't think GOD as Bruce envisioned it would have been a great film (there would have been at least 45 minutes of fight scenes in, what, a 90 minute movie? How much room does that leave for an engaging plot & character development?), I kind of think Bruce was over estimating his talents as a writer & director at that point, but I would at least give him credit for doing some new things with his fight scenes. Who else, for example, was finishing fight scenes with grappling techniques such as choke holds at that time? How many other people were taking opponents to the ground & trying to finish them at that range in their movies? 

[Killer Meteor]

29 minutes ago, Cognoscente said:

Unlike most twin films*, people would have been perceptive enough to know when they were seeing the original. Golden Harvest's logo on the poster, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's name/image in publicity materials, and the trailer would have been a seal of approval. Before Bruce died, there were already stills and production photos of his project shown in magazines.
 

True...but an interview with Kareem was attached to GOODBYE BRUCE LEE for its US release, and the advertising was altered after complaints to stress Bruce Lee wasn't actually in the film.

[Killer Meteor]

5 hours ago, Omni Dragon said:

Looks like the BBFC classified it for cinemas in 1983:

https://www.bbfc.co.uk/release/game-of-death-2-q29sbgvjdglvbjpwwc0zmdu1nzc

I'm assuming the mention of 3D is an error.

The use of the TOWER OF DEATH name and the Sino Cine distributor suggests it was the Chinese version.

[Cognoscente]

2 hours ago, Brucemee said:

It's a bit speculative to suggest what Bruce would or wouldn't have done in a Dirty Harry type movie as we never got to see him star in a modern action movie in an urban setting

In 1972, Bruce wanted Bob Baker to get him a gun.

[PandaPawPaw]

25 minutes ago, Cognoscente said:

In 1972, Bruce wanted Bob Baker to get him a gun.

What good are drugs without a gun!

Like a burger without fries.

Awww hell no!

Edited February 19, 2023 by PandaPawPaw

[Brucemee]

8 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

In 1972, Bruce wanted Bob Baker to get him a gun.

As I recall one of his Seattle students (Leroy someone, maybe?) said he & another student had taught Bruce at least a little about firearms, had taken him out shooting, someone else said he had bought a quick draw rig that had been owned by Sammy Davis Jr, someone else mentioned that he'd purchased a gun after the Manson family murders, he can be seen purchasing antique rifles in Rome during the filming of Way Of The Dragon, & I'm realizing way too much of my brain space is devoted to useless Bruce Lee trivia!

Anyway, when it came time for Bruce to "pull out a .45 & , bang! Setto it!" in one of his movies, I don't think he would've stared at the gun like "What the heck is this thing?" ...

[BornToDefense]

11 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

What made Lee's version of the pagoda concept stand out was that he had allies accompanying him on his raid. Removing one ally while taking another ally out of context was counterintuitive. It's almost as if Chow didn't want international journalists to interview Tien and Chieh about their involvement in the original. With Chow's logic, he might as well have shelved the film and only incorporate the original footage into a documentary about Bruce's life.

Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question about something that's common knowledge but what would the reason be for this? I haven't gotten deep into Bruce Lee personal life lore (I find it kind of confusing).

[Omni Dragon]

11 hours ago, Cognoscente said:

There are a few shots where people do things towards the camera, so Golden Harvest may have been hoping to sell the film on the basis of it being the first time that a "Bruce Lee" movie was shown in 3D.

It seems the other main Bruce Lee movies plus Game of Death are also listed as 3D for cinemas. I noticed it's the same for Drunken Master and Project A. That would seem unlikely, wouldn't it?