Seasonal Films Corporation - who owns the rights to the movies now?

[fusionnc]

Hi

Having waited many years for releases of true classics like Legend of a fighter, Secret Rivals and Dance of the drunk mantis on Blu-ray, i am thinking that these titles will probably never be released.

Secret Rivals had a DVD release from Soul Blade but it had heavy damage and an interlaced transfer with green splotches appearing frequently. Dance of the drunk mantis was also released by Soul Blade but was blurry and Anamorphic widescreen flag was not set properly so picture was stretched out. I think initially HKL had the rights to these titles but decided against releasing them because of quality issues.

Legend of a Fighter was released by HKL but in a heavily cropped widescreen version. To my knowledge a non cropped version released to the public does not exist. Also this release was blurry and showed signs of major damage to the film negatives.

My questions is who owns the rights to these movies since Seasonal Films are defunct since 2008?

Obviously titles like Drunken Master and Snake in the eagle's shadow got really good Blu-ray releases.

I heard something about original negatives being damaged by a flood many years ago but Drunken Master and Snake in the eagle's shadow had good releases.

I know that there was a German release of Ninja in the dragon's den but the quality was not that great and did not seem to be from original camera negative and had alot of oversharpening.

Can we together crowd fund and help save these titles?

Is the interest in these titles large enough?

I would personally pay 500 EURO easily to have Secret Rivals, Legend of a fighter and Dance of the drunk mantis in good quality.

Just raw 2k or 4k scans of the movies from Original Camera Negative, Interpositive, Color reversal intermediate (CRI) or separation negatives would be great so that the movies are saved and that additional restoration can perhaps be performed in the future.

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by fusionnc

[thundered mantis]

I would gladly contribute with another 500. I bet the comunity could rise a nice amount, those films are true classics. 

 

[laagi]

I hate to be that guy... but just forget about it!

I've been down that road several times with different distributors. They don't give a flying F about those movies, believe me when I say this.

Also they'll ask a ridiculous amount with a bunch of restrictions attached to it.

By all means if you're willing to pay $10k+ for some obscure FU flick. Go for it! I can only imagine what they'd ask for a popular title.

The sad truth is that those companies couldn't care less about us fans or their back catalogue. They rather see them rot away.

AFAIC nobody outside the fandom cares about these movies anymore. And the companies are at least two decades late for a release which will return any financial gain.

It's a sad state but we're better of putting our hope and faith in custom work or I hate to say it some bootleg label.

[fusionnc]

3 hours ago, thundered mantis said:

I would gladly contribute with another 500. I bet the comunity could rise a nice amount, those films are true classics. 

 

Hi, great to hear that there are still fans out there.

I have emailed Hong Kong Film Archive to hear if they maybe has some negatives stored for these movies or if they could be helpful in restoring the movies or finding out the current rights owner since Seasonal Films is defunct since 2008. I have not received any answer yet.

For me there is no interest in any financial gain, if all costs can be covered then that's great. Basically a limited release for those who have backed the project financially is what i have in mind. No special extras or trailers just the movies in the best possible quality is my goal.

Is there anyone who could know who owns the rights to Seasonal Films movies since they went defunct? Does anyone have contact with NG-See Yuen founder of Seasonal Films?

Basically raw 2k scan transfers would be much better then what we have today for these movies. Wet-gate and ultrasonic cleaning of the negatives would be preferred before the scan is made. Also fixing of splices and sprocket holes would be needed so that film negatives can go through the film scanner properly without risking further damage.

Other worse solutions would be to maybe get in contact with someone who has the unrestored SD transfers that Seasonal Films sent HKL maybe it is on some Digibeta tape. I wonder if HKL received Legend of a fighter in cropped Widescreen directly from Seasonal or if they decided to crop the image in later stage and zoom in to the SD footage making the footage even blurrier.

Is anyone still in contact with Brian White HKL founder?

Edited January 6, 2023 by fusionnc

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

22 hours ago, fusionnc said:

I have emailed Hong Kong Film Archive to hear if they maybe has some negatives stored for these movies or if they could be helpful in restoring the movies or finding out the current rights owner since Seasonal Films is defunct since 2008. I have not received any answer yet.

If you knew anything about HKFA, you wouldn't have bothered. You might as well talk to a wall.

And I'm gonna join @laagi on the party pooper train here. This ain't happening. Not in a million years. 

The best one can hope for is that one of the niche labels puts 'em out. Or... yeah, customs from whatever material is already available.

[fusionnc]

50 minutes ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

If you knew anything about HKFA, you wouldn't have bothered. You might as well talk to a wall.

And I'm gonna join laagi on the party pooper train here. This ain't happening. Not in a million years. 

The best one can hope for is that one of the niche labels puts 'em out. Or... yeah, customs from whatever material is already available.

I feel that i will at least try to do something to get better transfers for these movies, that have been my childhood favorites. If it doesn't work out, then it is what it is, i will at least know i tried to do everything i could to make it happen.

Any kind of clue to who are current right holders after Seasonal Films went defunct in 2008 and how to contact them would be very appreciated.

Edited January 6, 2023 by fusionnc

[saltysam]

I think it was HKL themselves who decided to crop Legend Of A Fighter, they figured in the early days buyers hated black bars in their televisions, so a full wide-screen copy may be in the archives somewhere.

[Gaijin84]

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I'm not sure how much info you're going to get here. Either Toby Russell, @Mike Leeder or maybe @spannick would have info on ownership or prints and such. But that's just a guess... You're going to be hard pressed to raise several thousand dollars to save these films. I love them as much as the next guy, but that's a hard sell.

[fusionnc]

24 minutes ago, saltysam said:

I think it was HKL themselves who decided to crop Legend Of A Fighter, they figured in the early days buyers hated black bars in their televisions, so a full wide-screen copy may be in the archives somewhere.

Yeah very unfortunate, though i can understand their logic at the time when most people had smaller CRT screens.

This would be major step forward to have an uncropped transfer of Legend of a fighter with no denoising applied. What HKL released is a blury mess. Just look at the original Legend of a fighter widescreen trailer, the difference in sharpness is huge.

Dance of the drunk mantis and Secret Rivals would probably have much sharper image if we could acquire an uncompressed Digibeta master tape.

Edited January 6, 2023 by fusionnc

[fusionnc]

32 minutes ago, Gaijin84 said:

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I'm not sure how much info you're going to get here. Either Toby Russell, Mike Leeder or maybe spannick would have info on ownership or prints and such. But that's just a guess... You're going to be hard pressed to raise several thousand dollars to save these films. I love them as much as the next guy, but that's a hard sell.

Do you have their email addresses? if so please send a private message to me so i can contact them.

I feel that these movies deserve one final release and from what i've gathered no new attempts have been made at releasing them with better transfers since the DVD releases from HKL and Soul Blade.

A release of a raw 2k scan or even from an unrestored digibeta master tape will probably have alot more sharpness and clarity and i can live with seeing more scratches and dirt if i can get more sharpness and clarity in the picture.

Edited January 6, 2023 by fusionnc

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

HKFA will be of no help. I have tried to work with them before. Even some film restoration people in HK that do this for a living say it is a weird place. You would be better off seeing if you pay them for a screening and flying there. There is little interest in these old films. 95% of the Chinese audience would rather focus on today, or a sort of fantasy Wu xia world, and not when they got crushed by the Manchus, the west or had civil wars, etc. They are done with focusing on the whole underdog thing that was the model for these old films. The new, fascist type of action films are of much more interest there.

[fusionnc]

1 hour ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

HKFA will be of no help. I have tried to work with them before. Even some film restoration people in HK that do this for a living say it is a weird place. You would be better off seeing if you pay them for a screening and flying there. There is little interest in these old films. 95% of the Chinese audience would rather focus on today, or a sort of fantasy Wu xia world, and not when they got crushed by the Manchus, the west or had civil wars, etc. They are done with focusing on the whole underdog thing that was the model for these old films. The new, fascist type of action films are of much more interest there.

Ok, that does not sound promising.

It would be helpful to know if they even have all of the Seasonal Films movies in their archive, does anyone have a personal contact at HKFA? I have gotten no answer yet on the hkfa@lcsd.gov.hk mail adress

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

They will take a while.  These films were considered low brow. Some were tax write offs. Shaw Brothers studios was more like AIP than Universal. They are not nostalgic for Shaw brothers in HK. Print is probably red from age.

 

[fusionnc]

18 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

They will take a while.  These films were considered low brow. Some were tax write offs. Shaw Brothers studios was more like AIP than Universal. They are not nostalgic for Shaw brothers in HK. Print is probably red from age.

 

Ok, hopefully i will get a reply in the coming weeks.

I know that Secret Rivals had mold/fungus on the negative used for the transfer and thats the green splotches that appears in the image. But there could be other better sources. It's not confirmed from what i know that Seasonal did the transfer from Original negatives, could have been a interpositive or internegative (a copy of an interpositive that is then used to make all of the theatrical prints) source.

Dimension Films seems to be right owners for Snake in the eagle's shadow and Drunken Master i will try and ask them how they got the best possible sources for SITES and DM and if they have any leads regarding Secret Rivals, Legend of a fighter and Dance of the drunk mantis.

Edited January 6, 2023 by fusionnc

[saltysam]

15 hours ago, fusionnc said:

Ok, hopefully i will get a reply in the coming weeks.

I know that Secret Rivals had mold/fungus on the negative used for the transfer and thats the green splotches that appears in the image. But there could be other better sources. It's not confirmed from what i know that Seasonal did the transfer from Original negatives, could have been a interpositive or internegative (a copy of an interpositive that is then used to make all of the theatrical prints) source.

Dimension Films seems to be right owners for Snake in the eagle's shadow and Drunken Master i will try and ask them how they got the best possible sources for SITES and DM and if they have any leads regarding Secret Rivals, Legend of a fighter and Dance of the drunk mantis.

For now, get hold of @TheKungFuRobber’s Dance Of The Drunk Mantis, he's fixed the aspect ratio and it looks reasonably good in upscaled 1080p.

[thehangman]

20 hours ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

If you knew anything about HKFA, you wouldn't have bothered. You might as well talk to a wall.

And I'm gonna join laagi on the party pooper train here. This ain't happening. Not in a million years. 

The best one can hope for is that one of the niche labels puts 'em out. Or... yeah, customs from whatever material is already available.

@Mike Leeder might be a good person to ask,he may know somethings

 

[fusionnc]

2 hours ago, thehangman said:

@Mike Leeder might be a good person to ask,he may know somethings

 

Thanks, i have sent Mike a message on this site. Maybe he can assist with more information.

[fusionnc]

Seems like this topic is dead and there is simply not enough interest. So i think the chances of this ever happening is now near zero.

Edited February 10, 2023 by fusionnc

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

Yes, like I said, these films were many times just tax write offs, etc. They were made for purely commercial reasons at times, though certainly there were artists in the film community. It would almost be liking tracking down old porn movies. There was a time when there were full length porn films with "plots" of sorts that were released every week or so. Low budget money making films. I can't imagine anyone saved the negatives of those old films, many with some shall we say, less than attractive actors who were simply willing to do the work. On the other hand you will see a million restorations of John Woo films, etc.

 

[AlbertV]

Kino Lorber Classics released "No Retreat, No Surrender" on Blu-Ray in 2016. Would have been cool if they could have gotten the sequels as well. Just a thought...

[dionbrother]

Roy Horan claimed he kept a 35mm print of DRUNKEN MASTER under his bed, because he knew how important the movie was.  He was also one of the first in the HK film biz to see the advantage of home video, particularly international video sales.  I dread the thought of what happened to negatives of the other Seasonal productions.

[BornToDefense]

It's a shame given the importance of some of these films. I've never been able to find a copy of Anti-Corruption period, much less a good one. I realize why preservation wasn't prioritized prior to home video but it's depressing regardless.

[laagi]

9 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Yes, like I said, these films were many times just tax write offs, etc. They were made for purely commercial reasons at times, though certainly there were artists in the film community. It would almost be liking tracking down old porn movies. There was a time when there were full length porn films with "plots" of sorts that were released every week or so. Low budget money making films. I can't imagine anyone saved the negatives of those old films, many with some shall we say, less than attractive actors who were simply willing to do the work. On the other hand you will see a million restorations of John Woo films, etc.

 

Or restorations of the same JC and Bruce Lee flick. It's insane that these still make money somehow!? I lost track honestly.