Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) - James Cameron

[laagi]

Watched this in IMAX 3D the other day. Still not sure how to feel about it.

It looks spectacular! From a mere technical point of view it's probably the best CGI ever put on the big screen. 

However as soon as you start looking beneath its shiny surface it becomes a whole different affair all together I'm afraid.

A repetitive story, one dimensional characters, exploitive environmentalism, poor dialogue...

Worst of all everything in The Way of Water feels just black and white. There's no grey area or any nuance to the story or characters. 

The longer the movie went on the more exhausted I got with it. Overall this is alright!

Also I can't shake of the feeling that Cameron has become a bit of a d*ck and nobody seems to have the guts to stand in his "creative way". 

[J.J. Hayden]

Sounds about right, but.... wasn't Cameron always a bit of a dick?

[Yggdrasil]

While I've seen the first movie over 30 times, I loved it. But the sequel? I hated the trailer. I could never finish it. Sure enough, after watching the film, I knew why. The tribes speak English! 

After living on a different planet and now as a Na'vi, I wouldn't be teaching my kids English. 

I had expected the other tribe to be speaking a different dialect, much like you would get say in Philippines, with it's 7000 islands and 600 languages. 

The fact this other tribe, having no contact with humans other than the forest Na'vi learning English from Dr Grace Ausgutine, I just find it absurd. 

I would have liked it if there was more native language, a different dialect and less of behaving like some bloke riding the seas off an Hawaiin coast.

Then there's surfing lingo like 'bro' which I just rolled my eyes at.

As for the story, there isn't. Same music for some scenes, same locations for training/obtaining. So its just a colourful film with not much else. 

Can't believe I waited 13 years for this. 

Rating 2 out of 10. 

5 hours ago, J.J. Hayden said:

Sounds about right, but.... wasn't Cameron always a bit of a dick?

Not so. He's made some wicked films. All great apart from piranha 2.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Yggdrasil

[J.J. Hayden]

5 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Not so. He's made some wicked films. All great apart from piranha 2.

He's made some of the best films of all time, but wasn't referring to that. From what I understand, he's always been "a bit of a dick".

You really liked the first one that much?

[Yggdrasil]

9 minutes ago, J.J. Hayden said:

He's made some of the best films of all time, but wasn't referring to that. From what I understand, he's always been "a bit of a dick".

You really liked the first one that much?

Yes. Because living as a Brit in a modern city and just working, then travelling in Asia, finding my adventure with the tribes and falling in love with their way of life. Yes. I could relate with Sully and the love of the Na'vi and their way of primate life. 

[On a side note, I've just finished watching Man from deep river. All I would say lucky bastard being kidnapped by Burmese tribesmen and living for 6 months as one of the tribe]

Edited December 30, 2022 by Yggdrasil

[J.J. Hayden]

11 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Yes. Because living as a Brit in a modern city and just working, then travelling in Asia, finding my adventure with the tribes and falling in love with their way of life. Yes. I could relate with Sully and the love of the Na'vi and their way of primate life. 

"primate life" careful now, you'll get yourself cancelled, LOL.

But seriously, I know people like myself who think it was ok, but loved, 30 times watched, wow.

Have you seen the old TV series called Shogun, you might like that, too.

[Yggdrasil]

19 minutes ago, J.J. Hayden said:

"primate life" careful now, you'll get yourself cancelled, LOL.

But seriously, I know people like myself who think it was ok, but loved, 30 times watched, wow.

Have you seen the old TV series called Shogun, you might like that, too.

No I haven't heard of Shogun. But last Samurai is just the same to a certain degree. You learn to adapt to your surroundings.

And when I got back to England after 5 years away, it took 2 years for me to adapt.

[J.J. Hayden]

5 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

No I haven't heard of Shogun. But last Samurai is just the same to a certain degree. You learn to adapt to your surroundings.

And when I got back to England after 5 years away, it took 2 years for me to adapt.

The Last Samurai is a great film but does paint the samurai in too positive light, Shogun was a lot more critical of all involved. Check it out if you have the time.

As for being away for 5 years, why would you come back, you some kind of sadist or something  

[Yggdrasil]

17 minutes ago, J.J. Hayden said:

The Last Samurai is a great film but does paint the samurai in too positive light, Shogun was a lot more critical of all involved. Check it out if you have the time.

As for being away for 5 years, why would you come back, you some kind of sadist or something  

Unfortunately I ran out of funds. Travelling is more expensive than you think, even in Asia.

As for Shogun and Last Samurai, ok, I'll look into it. Thanks mate.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Yggdrasil

[J.J. Hayden]

6 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Unfortunately I ran out of funds. Travelling is more expensive than you think, even in Asia.

Time was you'd make your money out there teaching English, but how things are now, I guess even that's gone to pot. Sigh. Oh well

[DarthKato]

The first movie was alright, but I've seen movies handle the same type of story better(Like "Last Samurai" mentioned above by @Yggdrasil, which I really enjoyed). Now my dad loved the first movie(I bought him the collectors edition of it and he watched it at least a half a dozen times), and if he were still alive, I would defiantly buy it for him. But as things stand, I haven't seen anything that makes me want to see this sequel. 

[Drunken Monk]

I preferred the second film to the first and actually think it’s one of the best films 2022 has to offer (top 20, maybe not top 10). The visuals alone make it something special but I enjoyed the plot and the characters too. By the time the final action set piece kicked in, I was over the moon.

[laagi]

Surprised that nobody mentioned Dances with Wolves before anything else in relation to the Avatar series. I mean it's pretty obvious that Cameron draws a lot of his work (which he himself mentioned several times) from Native American life.

I know the "Dances with Smurfs" trope is getting old but it is still funny as hell and rings true to this date. Even more so after The Way of Water.

@Yggdrasil Interesting you'd mention The Philippines. Lived there for a little bit over a year myself back in the day The Metkayina had me instantly remember the "sea gypsies" or Bajau, which I've encountered multiple times.

[Yggdrasil]

1 hour ago, laagi said:

 

@Yggdrasil Interesting you'd mention The Philippines. Lived there for a little bit over a year myself back in the day The Metkayina had me instantly remember the "sea gypsies" or Bajau, which I've encountered multiple times.

The sea gypsies of the Sulu sea, off the coast of Mindanao which dot the many islands all the way over to Sabah?

Also wanted to visit as I felt east Malaysia as close to the Philippines as you can possibly get. But with the recent kidnapping and murders of 2 foreigners with their Philippine wives from Davao and taken to Sulu, I don't want to give those sea gypsies any reason to target me. 

Sure, not everyone is bad. There's good and bad people in all countries.

I've been all over the Philippines and I love the tribal way of life like in Philippines, as well as of parts of Asia. 

The ex-head hunters of Kalinga and Tinglayan is about as tribal I had experienced in Philippines. 

As for the sea gypsies of Philippines, I'm a bit worried about Abu Sayaaf, so I didn't venture over that way. It's unfortunate, because there's lots to see in Mindanao given the chance. Never got any further than South Cotabato or Pagadian City. Definitely felt the uneasiness travelling by bus leaving Pagadian to head North.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Yggdrasil

[DarthKato]

13 hours ago, laagi said:

Surprised that nobody mentioned Dances with Wolves before anything else in relation to the Avatar series

Its been close to 30 years since I watched Dances with Wolves. I guess I forgot all about it. lol

[Yggdrasil]

5 hours ago, DarthKato said:

Its been close to 30 years since I watched Dances with Wolves. I guess I forgot all about it. lol

Never seen it. Only movie I've seen with Kevin in it was Waterworld.

[J.J. Hayden]

19 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Only movie I've seen with Kevin in it was Waterworld.

Oh dear.....watch Dance With Wolves, it's pretty good. Completely unrelated to the topic here, but check out The Untouchables too, it's one of the few other good Costner movies.

[DarthKato]

21 hours ago, Yggdrasil said:

Never seen it. Only movie I've seen with Kevin in it was Waterworld.

I can only vaguely remember bits and pieces of Dances With Wolves, so I cannot speak of its quality. I think Waterworld wasn't that bad, but I'm probably in the minority on that opinion. But @J.J. Haydenis right about The Untouchables. That movie is awesome. 

[laagi]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:17 PM, Yggdrasil said:

The sea gypsies of the Sulu sea, off the coast of Mindanao which dot the many islands all the way over to Sabah?

Yes those are the ones. Although I never got to go as far South as you did. I mainly stayed in and around Davao. Nowadays you'll mostly encounter them in tourist spots or close to the ports. Bit of a sad sight as a lot of them have "reduced" their lives to begging or going as far as harassing people; rather than following their traditional life. I've encountered both though during my stay to be honest.

[laagi]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:20 AM, J.J. Hayden said:

Oh dear.....watch Dance With Wolves, it's pretty good. Completely unrelated to the topic here, but check out The Untouchables too, it's one of the few other good Costner movies.

Easily the best Costner movie. I'll also add Robin Hood and Bodyguard as guilty pleasure!

[Yggdrasil]

27 minutes ago, laagi said:

Yes those are the ones. Although I never got to go as far South as you did. I mainly stayed in and around Davao. Nowadays you'll mostly encounter them in tourist spots or close to the ports. Bit of a sad sight as a lot of them have "reduced" their lives to begging or going as far as harassing people; rather than following their traditional life. I've encountered both though during my stay to be honest.

Unfortunately with the Philippines such a poor country it is, people do different things just to make a living, even if it comes to begging from tourists.

It's really unfortunate about the Sulu area of Mindanao. If it was more welcoming and less of a pirate trade, there would be more tourists going there, which in turn will give the local people more jobs. 

[Yggdrasil]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:20 AM, J.J. Hayden said:

Oh dear.....watch Dance With Wolves, it's pretty good. Completely unrelated to the topic here, but check out The Untouchables too, it's one of the few other good Costner movies.

I was going to download it, then I saw the extended version for nearly 4 hrs! So I thought, because you recommended it to me so much, I just went out and ordered the blu ray edtion.

I also know nothing about the film. I don't know the year its set in or anything. And I've never been inclined to find out.

But I would probably guess it's about the civil war and Costner has been sent to kill the red Indians and sides with them & the wolves. That's my only guess. I can't see how a movie lasting 4 hours will just have wolves in it. (I also do not want to know so no spoilers please.)

So I shall wait until the blu arrives from US.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Yggdrasil

[J.J. Hayden]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:57 PM, Yggdrasil said:

I also know nothing about the film. I don't know the year its set in or anything. And I've never been inclined to find out.

Don't worry, I won't spoil anything. I can't say I've seen the extended cut, but the original was quite long but never felt like it. I can't vouch the same for the extended cut, but I've never heard anyone complaining about it either. Hope you enjoy it.

Edited January 8, 2023 by J.J. Hayden

[thekfc]

2 hours ago, laagi said:

Yes those are the ones. Although I never got to go as far South as you did. 

 

On 12/30/2022 at 6:17 AM, Yggdrasil said:

I've been all over the Philippines and I love the tribal way of life like in Philippines, as well as of parts of Asia. 

The furthest south I have been is Bohol & Cebu.

My few trips to the PI, I (we) mainly stayed in Luzon - Taguig, Makati, Pasig, Pasay, Pangasinan, Baguio,

[DarthKato]

3 hours ago, laagi said:

Easily the best Costner movie. I'll also add Robin Hood and Bodyguard as guilty pleasure!

Man, that reminds me that I need to finally see Costner's Robin Hood. I such a big fan of Robin Hood, I have no idea why I haven't seen it yet.