The Offical Shaws Dub Thread

[Guest Markgway]

My Young Auntie (though this one and the following 2 below were originally released subbed in Sierra Leone,I have also seen dubbed versions)

Made in Hong Kong released this dubbed on VHS in the UK.

[Guest sevenhooks]

The Lady Is The Boss

Wow. Where have you seen/heard the dub for this?

Whould love to have that one.

[Guest Kwok Choi]

The Proud Twins

The Flag Of Iron

[Guest whamsabi]

You can also include:

Naval Commandos

7 Man Army

[Guest whamsabi]

I know I saw 14 Amazons dubbed from a special about the women of Shaw. I looked like the familiar voices. I saw it on Showtime or Cinemax. It was not the movie ,but a special about the Shaw women.

[Guest sevenhooks]

I know I saw 14 Amazons dubbed from a special about the women of Shaw. I looked like the familiar voices. I saw it on Showtime or Cinemax. It was not the movie ,but a special about the Shaw women.

Yeah, I saw a few english dubbed clips from 14 Amazons on that "Art of Action" documentary with Samuel L. Jackson.

It was definitely a part of the older, familiar group of voices as whamsai had previously mentioned.

[Guest gfanikf]

I was wondering do people feel like we have seen all the dubs that we will ever see? That there will be no release with a dub popping out of nowhere (ie like saying a film on the dub list but never available dubbed) and If it hasnt appeared now in some form thats not on reels somewhere then it never will.

When was the last Shaw dub even discovered and started being traded?

Any ideas (more like random speculation) on what dubs may still be waiting to be found?

[bobo]

i think there are a few known dubs that will never surface---examples COME DRINK WITH ME--FLYING DAGGER--LADY HERMIT--KING EAGLE--KILLER CLANS--PIRATE--PROUD TWINS--RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH--RETURN OF THE ONEARMED SWORDSMAN--and of course HOUSE OF TRAPS. i for one believe copies of these still exist--but are being held by fanatic collectors. as for the last dub to surface --beats me---seems if you search long enough you might find one. i want to get the english dub of LEGEND OF THE BAT from flashlegs--i haven,t seen this one yet. right now i,ve got an english dub version of STREET GANGS OF HONG KONG on the way. every chance i get i search old video stores--book stores--flea markets etc. still waiting for that big find.:rollin

[Guest gfanikf]

I know that feeling Bobo. I always have a hope when I go into an old video store or flea market (and there is one coming up soon so I will keep my eyes out ) that I'm going to somehow come away with some treasure. I just cant believe that some dubs just dont exist anymore. I understand Shaws and now Celestial may not have them anymore based on what Linn has said BUT I cant believe those reels Kwok Choi mentioned are all dust now. I would hope not. I think its a matter of searching on a scale not possible for fans (sorta what major studios have done one example is how lots of missing footage from the Lost World turned up in Chezch. I have a feeling more will turn up I just know it this isnt one thing like the Spider Scene or London at Midnight where its just one film but many films. We may not get them all BUT i think we will get some.

I remeber a rumor going around that Toby Russel has a lot of Shaw prints and before Celestial came about was planning to release them at a point in the future I have to think some rare things are in his possesion sadly though he cant release or use them for fear Celestial may try to grab them. My main theory is that a lot of SB prints are still sitting in old UHF stations or in Africe or the Carribean. Just a hunch though

[Guest sevenhooks]

When was the last Shaw dub even discovered and started being traded?

It's been a long while since any "newly discovered" dubs have surfaced, but the last ones I remember showing up were Legend of the Bat, 7 Man Army, Battle Wizard, Flying Guillotine 2 and Heaven and Hell (that one was a little earlier).

Just SOME of my english dubbed Holy Grails...

To Kill a Mastermind

Rendezvous With Death

House of Traps

Legend of the Fox

Sword Stained With Royal Blood

Ode To Gallantry

Tigress From Shaolin

Lady Is The Boss

Ambitious Kung Fu Girl

Gangmaster

Bastard Swordsman 1 & 2

Lover's Blades

Opium and the Kung Fu Master

Long Road To Gallantry

Fake Ghostcatchers

Fighting Fool

Proud Twins

Bloody Parrot

Sentimental Swordsman series

Soul of the Sword

Brave Archer and His Mate

Heroes Shed No Tears

as you can see, there's plenty more to hope and pray for.

[Guest Frank Lakatos]

My main theory is that a lot of SB prints are still sitting in old UHF stations or in Africe or the Carribean.

From my knowledge, you'll find many rare dubs in the Miami area, which made it on WBFS channel 33 tv in the 80's. There was a place in downtown Miami that sold old dubb Shaws, some of the same prints used on tv, which were aquired through truck lot auctions.

There is the story that Channel 33 sold off their entire inventory of Shaws to truck lot sales, which sold their loads in auctions or by the Dixie Highway railroad tracks.

I have watched channel 33 for years and can confirm these dubbs were in the 33 inventory:

House of Traps

Sword Stained With Royal Blood

Lady Is The Boss

Bastard Swordsman 1 and 2

Opium and the Kung Fu Master

Fake Ghostcatchers tv title was Kung Fu Ghostcatchers

Fighting Fool

Proud Twins

Sentimental Swordsman 1 and 2

Soul of the Sword

Brave Archer and His Mate

I once corresponded with a person who had worked with Channel 33 in the 1980's, a kung fu movie fan, who revealed that 33 aquired their movies from other stations, most likely the West indies, St. Martin, and Wometco NY. 33 had too many of these Shaw movies in their vaults and not enough space to air them, so some of the movies were aired during midnight. From what i was told, MANY Shaw movies were dubbed, giving the appearance that all of the Shaw kung fu movies were dubbed and available. In 1990, the inventory was sold and dispersed all over the Miami area. I was told by this person the fact of the situation that nobody bought the movies because they didn't understand the significence of them and the tapes and reels were just thrown away when the garage sale was over.

For a fact, WBFS Channel 33 in Miami once had all of the rare Shaw English dubbs. But, they've been thrown away years ago.

Frank

[Guest Dion Brother]

Could I really get excited to hear this dialogue in those intercontinental accents:

"But still, that House has alot of Traps."

"Right, then."

Anybody got the old issue of MAMA with the list of titles that were announced by Southgate, and the packages offered to Ocean Shores? That may fill in the blanks.

[Guest sevenhooks]

I have watched channel 33 for years and can confirm these dubbs were in the 33 inventory:

House of Traps

Sword Stained With Royal Blood

Lady Is The Boss

Bastard Swordsman 1 and 2

Opium and the Kung Fu Master

Fake Ghostcatchers tv title was Kung Fu Ghostcatchers

Fighting Fool

Proud Twins

Sentimental Swordsman 1 and 2

Soul of the Sword

Brave Archer and His Mate

Curious, since aside from House of Traps, Opium & the KF Master and the 1st Bastard Swordsman film, NONE of those titles were ever picked up by World Northal (and even those 3 flicks never aired dubbed in the states - at least I've yet to see any proof supporting such a claim - video tape, ANY local TV listing, etc.).

Also, WW Entertainment/WorldNorthal had at that time, exclusive television distribution rights for english dubbed Shaw flicks in that territory.

For example, WHO exactly was the company that took the liberty to retitle Fake Ghostcatchers like that and air it on TV?

Also, do you remember if Brave Archer and His Mate had a retitle as well? Maybe "Kung Fu Warlords Part 4" or something like that?

From my knowledge, you'll find many rare dubs in the Miami area,

I've got thousands of dollars set aside for anyone who can come up with tapes of ANY of those (english dubbed) titles you mentioned.

No joke.

[Guest Frank Lakatos]

Curious, since aside from House of Traps, Opium & the KF Master and the 1st Bastard Swordsman film, NONE of those titles were ever picked up by World Northal (and even those 3 flicks never aired dubbed in the states - at least I've yet to see any proof supporting such a claim - video tape, ANY local TV listing, etc.).

Also, WW Entertainment/WorldNorthal had at that time, exclusive television distribution rights for english dubbed Shaw flicks in that territory.

For example, WHO exactly was the company that took the liberty to retitle Fake Ghostcatchers like that and air it on TV?

I don't have a clear answer to that, except that probably most of these unlicensed Shaw dubs came from New York, presumably a channel called Wometco, which was once situated on the top of the Empire State Building. The other half of the movies came from St. Thomas in the Carribean. Wometco bought their movies from Europe, which bought their versions from all over Asia, which was probably responsible for the alternate versions and titles. From my knowledge, there was a big connection between Wometco and WBFS 33 in the 80's. Wometco sold most of their movies after an 80's flood, preseumably to channel 33 and back to European tv stations in order to avoid rights issues, since Wometco dealt with alternate versions of movies. Most of the movies were in poor condition with dust and deterioration of the celluloid, but were aired nonetheless, usually during the late night hours.

Also, do you remember if Brave Archer and His Mate had a retitle as well? Maybe "Kung Fu Warlords Part 4" or something like that?

Back then, I'd catch the movies midway through, not seeing the opening credits, but i do remember Kung Fu Warlords in the title. The rare dubs listed do exist, I can confirm as a fact from years of watching Shaws 33. World Northal wasn't the only one to pick up on the Shaws. Wometco source dtheir movies from Europe, in which their movies were sourced from all over Asia. Another thing I noticed is that the prints ran uncut when compared to the Celestials and other versions. In some cases, 33 had to interrupt the movie during the 2 hour mark and fade out to the next program, cutting out half the movie and ending sometimes. I remember that being a huge let down.

Most of Wometco's inventory lies in Miami-Dade County. They are somewhere, usually on the sides of the tracks, because the trucks dump their contents on the tracks.

Not many people know of the Miami connection, and I always get into disputes with other local fans who just find what I say hard to believe, even though these local fans were in other states back in the 33 days. I was born in Miami and grew up with that station, and can confirm what I saw.

Frank

[Guest sevenhooks]

Wometco bought their movies from Europe, which bought their versions from all over Asia, which was probably responsible for the alternate versions and titles.

If we're talking about the same Wometco, then definitely not true.

Living in NY I had a subscription to Wometco Home Theater/WHT (an early competitor to HBO) starting in 1980 and lasting until they stopped showing movies and became an early MTV clone.

I still have a few of the uncut, english dubbed Shaws I taped off the channel (Return of the Master Killer, Masked Avengers, Master of Disaster, Fists of the White Lotus, etc.) complete with the WHT logo popping up during the movie (and the WW Ent. logo beforehand).

I also know from my talks with Ivory Harris (who helped run World Northal) that WHT got ALL of their Shaws direct from them.

Also, I would have most DEFINITELY remembered WHT broadcasting ANY of those other dubbed Shaws you listed.

Sure we're talking about the same station?

World Northal wasn't the only one to pick up on the Shaws. Wometco source dtheir movies from Europe, in which their movies were sourced from all over Asia.

Again, I got the subscription to WHT way back then SPECIFICALLY for the Shaw films (and for some of the late nite soft core porn ).

The ONLY Shaw stuff ever shown on WHT was from World Northal. Period. You must be talking about another WHT.

Otherwise, please name a distributor.

Back then, I'd catch the movies midway through, not seeing the opening credits, but i do remember Kung Fu Warlords in the title.

Doesn't make sense, since "Kung Fu Warlords" was a World Northal-specific retitle for the Brave Archer series, but WN only procured parts 1, 2 and 3 of the series.

Did some other European company just happen to retitle the film under the "Kung Fu Warlords" banner too? If so, what was the company?

The rare dubs listed do exist, I can confirm as a fact from years of watching Shaws 33.

I have no doubt that english dubs were made.

I do have doubts that those films you listed were ever shown dubbed in english on US tv.

Sorry. I just need to see SOME kind of proof.

That's just WAY too many incredible classics you listed showing in a HUGE market.

The fact that not ONE of those movies have ever shown up dubbed on tape somewhere seems a bit hard to fathom.

How hard can it be to find an old local television listing or two?

I bet a local Miami library has the tv listings on microfilm via the local newspapers from back then.

Please prove me wrong.

Most of Wometco's inventory lies in Miami-Dade County. They are somewhere, usually on the sides of the tracks, because the trucks dump their contents on the tracks.

Not many people know of the Miami connection, and I always get into disputes with other local fans who just find what I say hard to believe, even though these local fans were in other states back in the 33 days. I was born in Miami and grew up with that station, and can confirm what I saw.

Again. I'm putting my money up if you can come up with even ONE of these titles.

[Guest Frank Lakatos]

You are right about what you're writing, poiting out the facts as they are. To tell you the truth, I'm not so sure if what I've learned throught the years is true or not, and probably most is not, except for what I saw. The Wometco details are superficial. The inventory came from Wometco Canada i believe, not NY, because a flood couldn't reach the Empire State Building. I remember a flood being in the story, there was some sort of flood that lead to the selling of the inventory in 1985, which 33 suppsedly bought a great deal of at that time. I'm not sure if wometco NY showed those rare dubs at all. Probably that canadian division of that station. I never heard heard anybody in NY talk about rare Shaws either, unless Wometco probably had an inventory they never used, but I'm just guessing. It's all rumours, that's all I can say and I have no concrete proof to back them up unfortunately.

I'd like to bring about details on opium and the Kung Fu Master under an aka 33 English dubb. I noticed when comparing the HK print to what I saw on 33 that Ti Lung and tang Chia's training scenes were much longer and bleaker. There were many instances, long scene of Ti Lung going mad and Tang Chia just smacking him around with the poles. That very long dramatic scene, 5-8 minutes were tang finally realizes how desperate and severe of a condition Ti is in, with Ti mad and begging for a cure and Tang saddened. Ti's dilemma lasts longer. Initially, he fails all forms of healing, then returns after thinking about Chen Kuan Tai and his Opium house. The other differences when Chen Kuan Tai is beaten by Ti, there are many desperate, horrifying shots of Chen and his face expression, as Chen begins to weaken, his technique immobilized, his expression weak and vulnerable, his defeat lasts at least 2 minutes longer than the HK version, and is more dramatic. These dramatic scenes are supposed to reverse the tables, where now Chen is the weaker vulnerable man. The scenes edited out concern Ti's student and the opium house subplot. The HK version in comparison to this version was a huge let down. Most of the effective scenes were cut out and the HK versions seems too short and rushed, compared to the beauty of the English dubbed version.

Frank

[bobo]

i have a suggestion--how about any fans on this site who happen to live in the miami area do a really detailed search of the area. check all the small private video rental stores--check flea markets--maybe even some yard sales. enquire at some of the local tv stations etc. you never know--even if you come up with one or two tittles it would be worth it.

[Guest killer meteor]

I don't really understand why Siren didn't do that, unless they didn't know or didn't think it was worth it. Also, just to be clear, Celestial still does own all rights to the English dub tracks. Companies wishing to put out Shaw Brothers titles must buy the rights to the original dubs as well (if they want them).

The Siren releases are weird. The Master had no dub despite one being advertised and that list shows that Celestial has one. Many of Siren's anamorphic releases do not have a dub and those that do - All Men Are Brothers and The Web Of Death - are incomplete. I wonder if Siren decided it wasn't worth the extra money to get the dubs - if they did, they shot themselves in the foot because the dubs were the main appeal of the DVDs - the subs, full of errors and badly positioned in an ugly ckunky yellow font were poor. Their site is lacking in info though the staff is helpful when e-mailed. I noticed 2 things recently

1) The site is undergoing a re-vamp

2) Legendary Weapons Of China and Shaolin Prince are listed as being Cantonese on the Siren DVDs - as opposed to the more common practice of just sticking the Mandarin track on, regardless of whether it is correct or not. Does anyone know if the Cantonese tracks are indeed on these DVDs

[bobo]

i agree with killer meteor--if SIREN--IMAGE--and DRAGON DYNASTY don,t include the english dub versions of their SHAW releases they are makeing a big mistake. the whole point of releaseing these movies to the north american(english speaking folk) audience is to provide the dub version. if not people could just buy the asian celestial version. lets face it--there are some people that want the mandarin version but i believe the majority want the dubs. i bet dubbed kungfu movies outsell non dubbed fu movies by about a thousand to one in north america.:rollin

[Guest sevenhooks]

As someone who has had 1st hand experience with the US buying market for these films for over 15 years I can tell you that you are absolutely correct.

The hardcore base wants the (original) english dubs. Period.

I really hope they (meaning Dragon Dynasty, Image, etc.) understand this.

[Guest gfanikf]

Forgot to post this awhile ago a post Flashlegs Pete Jr. post at the FLK forum. I can't beleive I forgot to mention this. I cant confirm the stuff about the guy in NY but if Pete Jr says he has DFG than I defiantly believe him on that

Well I know a friend in New York who had House Of Traps and Disciples Of The 36th Chamber in dubbed but he chucked it in the bin 7 years ago because the quality was so bad. He sent me a copy of Duel For Gold in English dubbed 3 years ago of which I still have. There must be a lot of English dubbed about in West Africa as I was told most of them were released there.

[Guest killer meteor]

i agree with killer meteor--if SIREN--IMAGE--and DRAGON DYNASTY don,t include the english dub versions of their SHAW releases they are makeing a big mistake. the whole point of releaseing these movies to the north american(english speaking folk) audience is to provide the dub version. if not people could just buy the asian celestial version. lets face it--there are some people that want the mandarin version but i believe the majority want the dubs. i bet dubbed kungfu movies outsell non dubbed fu movies by about a thousand to one in north america.

My personal preference for any kung fu film is to have a choice of original language - in original format too, no remixes - with the option of watching the film with it's original English dub. Many of the Mandarin dubs for these 70's films sound lacklustre and dull to me - some of my Chinese friends feel the same way so it's not just me - so the English dubs are my preferred choice for repeated viewing. To have the choice is best

[Guest sevenhooks]

Well I know a friend in New York who had House Of Traps and Disciples Of The 36th Chamber in dubbed but he chucked it in the bin 7 years ago because the quality was so bad. He sent me a copy of Duel For Gold in English dubbed 3 years ago of which I still have. There must be a lot of English dubbed about in West Africa as I was told most of them were released there.

I certainly don't question the credentials of Flashlegs Pete Jr.

Although the story of his friend claiming to have once had both House of Traps and Disciples of the 36th Chamber dubbed in english leaves me just a little skeptical.

For one thing, if the copies this guy had were so horrible, that suggests that it was a dub/copy several generations down.

In other words, logic suggests there had to have been MORE copies of the same tape(s) somewhere.

NONE of them never showed up ANYWHERE?

Also, if this guy was in NY, it seems even more unlikely that he'd be able to keep these tapes out of the hands of other collectors.

Or at the very least, someone in the NY collecting circle (which was pretty tight) would have at least caught wind of the tapes.

I agree with Pete Jr. about West Africa being the potential motherlode for english dubbed Shaws though.

[Linn1]

where did he get Duel for Gold dubbed? And he does have it. It could be that the guy told him that he had those others dubbed and threw them away to just gain bragging rights or it could be that the guy really had it. I heard for YEARS of someone with a Eng dubbed Disciples in the US. I found one guy that supposedly had it, but he wouldn't trade.

[Guest gfanikf]

I heard for YEARS of someone with a Eng dubbed Disciples in the US. I found one guy that supposedly had it, but he wouldn't trade.

Dont worry we can have ninjas and triads take care of that . Its a shame though. Its not like he can someday sell it or something. Whats the point any more? I'm sure he could get tons of stuff for it. Hording is so pointless to me these days.