The Bruce Lee Drug Letters. What is the response from Shannon and Linda Lee?

[shukocarl1441996347]

We have all seen the letters between the Lee's and Bob Baker, yet over a year later I haven't actually come across any response from the estate.

Is there such a response or are they just staying tight-lipped and denying the whole thing?

[fabhui]

As far as I'm aware they just simply aren't publicly acknowledging the letters.

They're far too busy trying to push the image of Bruce as a spiritual leader and deity, whilst simultaneously peddling their tat.

It's a shame they don't concentrate on Bruce Lee the man and his art of Jeet Kune Do which is dying a death and release quality products.

They're sitting on a tonne of his writings etc that they could do exceptional things with. That all came to an end once they gave John Little the elbow.

Edited August 14, 2022 by fabhui

[shaolin swords]

i cant give you an answer to your question and am not the biggest bruce lee fan but i respect him as a martial artists an actor but what we all have to realize is bruce lee is human so he is going to have flaws and make mistake to me its not a big deal about the drugs i mean who knows for real what type of person bruce lee was really like i heard audio of him cursing up a storm i could not believe it when i first heard it but then you have to say peoples are peoples never believe the hype on any one but i remember reading about those letters on here that was some wild shit lol but like i said his human i know i want off topic a lil bit on this but i just had to get that off my chest and i dont think his wife and family are going to ever address it 

[dionbrother]

Linda Lee no-showed at a Bruce Lee event in San Francisco last year.  Want to say it was "Bruce Lee Day" or something like that.  She is said to be very ashamed the letters were made public.

[Killer Meteor]

5 hours ago, shaolin swords said:

i cant give you an answer to your question and am not the biggest bruce lee fan but i respect him as a martial artists an actor but what we all have to realize is bruce lee is human so he is going to have flaws and make mistake to me its not a big deal about the drugs i mean who knows for real what type of person bruce lee was really like i heard audio of him cursing up a storm i could not believe it when i first heard it but then you have to say peoples are peoples never believe the hype on any one but i remember reading about those letters on here that was some wild shit lol but like i said his human i know i want off topic a lil bit on this but i just had to get that off my chest and i dont think his wife and family are going to ever address it 

Just as well you're not the biggest Bruce Lee fan.

[tomgray2404]

We need to be realistic, nothing was ever going to come of this.

When the letters were discovered, I thought the main negative would be Bruce's mainstream reputation taking a hit and that might have impacted the estate. However, the story barely got off the ground, so the damage has been minimal. I can't recall one big-time outlet reporting on it. And believe me, I looked.

Like it or not, the general narrative is an actor taking Class A drugs 50 years ago. It's huge to us, but your average John Doe doesn't really give a shit. Bruce has been linked to cannabis for decades, so it's just an upgrade on his drug use. I realize the stuff was smuggled into the Orient, but what can you do about that? The authorities aren't going to chase up Linda Lee about drugs that were snorted in 1973.

And any insurance issues became void decades ago.

Edited August 15, 2022 by tomgray2404

[shukocarl1441996347]

22 minutes ago, tomgray2404 said:

We need to be realistic, nothing was ever going to come of this.

When the letters were discovered, I thought the main negative would be Bruce's mainstream reputation taking a hit and that might have impacted the estate. However, the story barely got off the ground, so the damage has been minimal. I can't recall one big-time outlet reporting on it. And believe me, I looked.

Like it or not, the general narrative is an actor taking Class A drugs 50 years ago. It's huge to us, but you're average John Doe doesn't really give a shit. Bruce has been linked to cannabis for decades, so it's just an upgrade on his drug use. I realize the stuff was smuggled into the Orient, but what can you do about that? The authorities aren't going to chase up Linda Lee about drugs that were snorted in 1973.

And any insurance issues became void decades ago.

It may not be a big thing to todays public but to people like me who (naively) believed he was the good clean living philosopher, a man who was an inspiration to thousands (millions?) was a actually a pothead drug importer. He was aided and abetted by his lying spouse who has built up an empire on his so-called image and lies.

[tomgray2404]

9 minutes ago, shukocarl1441996347 said:

It may not be a big thing to todays public but to people like me who (naively) believed he was the good clean living philosopher, a man who was an inspiration to thousands (millions?) was a actually a pothead drug importer. He was aided and abetted by his lying spouse who has built up an empire on his so-called image and lies.

Yeah, I'm not downplaying it. I was shocked by the revelations.

As a journalist, I'm approaching it journalistically. If this news broke in the seventies, then it would be front-page the world over. And it's almost nailed on that the Bruce Lee industry would have suffered as a result.

As it stands, 50 years on, the people shocked by this are hardcore Bruce Lee fans like us. We account for approximately 0.0000000001% of the mainstream. There's just no general interest in this story. And look how the news emerged: letters that were auctioned off at Heritage? You couldn't write it.

On the positive spin, Bruce Lee was and remains an inspiration. For me, the good outweighs the bad by a long, long way. Millions of kids (myself included) became martial artists because of him. My oldest boy competes this weekend. Lee's movies and teachings remain timeless and he'll always be a beloved figure.

Also, judging him through a 2022 lens is slightly unfair. The drug-smuggling stuff is astonishing in its stupidity, but I don't know if the penalties for doing that were as severe back then. The use of drugs is different. Cocaine was viewed as recreation fuel for the Hollywood elite back then, and Lee was a victim of his times and circumstances. Nowadays if someone takes cocaine, it almost elicits sympathy. It's a useless, shitty drug, and we know a lot more about the damage it causes half a century down the line.

[shukocarl1441996347]

3 hours ago, tomgray2404 said:

Yeah, I'm not downplaying it. I was shocked by the revelations.

As a journalist, I'm approaching it journalistically. If this news broke in the seventies, then it would be front-page the world over. And it's almost nailed on that the Bruce Lee industry would have suffered as a result.

As it stands, 50 years on, the people shocked by this are hardcore Bruce Lee fans like us. We account for approximately 0.0000000001% of the mainstream. There's just no general interest in this story. And look how the news emerged: letters that were auctioned off at Heritage? You couldn't write it.

On the positive spin, Bruce Lee was and remains an inspiration. For me, the good outweighs the bad by a long, long way. Millions of kids (myself included) became martial artists because of him. My oldest boy competes this weekend. Lee's movies and teachings remain timeless and he'll always be a beloved figure.

Also, judging him through a 2022 lens is slightly unfair. The drug-smuggling stuff is astonishing in its stupidity, but I don't know if the penalties for doing that were as severe back then. The use of drugs is different. Cocaine was viewed as recreation fuel for the Hollywood elite back then, and Lee was a victim of his times and circumstances. Nowadays if someone takes cocaine, it almost elicits sympathy. It's a useless, shitty drug, and we know a lot more about the damage it causes half a century down the line.

I get you but it does not excuse the near God-like status that the estate has promoted. I remember walking out of a lecture by John Little once, titled "How to Live the Bruce Lee Way". I wasn't being bloody told how to live the way he did, nobody does that. He was under total control by the Estate at that point and I knew it would be mostly BS philosophising. He may have been a great collector of philosophy but he surely didn't believe in living that way did he? Some of the stuff he said are totally contradictory to his real life actions. I still think he was a great martial arts innovator (JKD) though.

[tomgray2404]

2 hours ago, shukocarl1441996347 said:

I get you but it does not excuse the near God-like status that the estate has promoted. I remember walking out of a lecture by John Little once, titled "How to Live the Bruce Lee Way". I wasn't being bloody told how to live the way he did, nobody does that. He was under total control by the Estate at that point and I knew it would be mostly BS philosophising. He may have been a great collector of philosophy but he surely didn't believe in living that way did he? Some of the stuff he said are totally contradictory to his real life actions. I still think he was a great martial arts innovator (JKD) though.

Yeah, it got out of control.

When Bruce died, Linda was left alone with two kids. She's went guns blazing to sanctify Bruce and provide the best possible life for them. Those two goals are interlinked.

And I get it.

If she's more honest about Bruce's indiscretions, it hurts his legacy and the money that comes with it. However, if she presents him as this perfect physical specimen and God-like figure, she rakes in the dough.

Fans mattered but not as much as her family.

[ShawAngela]

I just discover this thread and I don't know what are these letters that are talked about here. 

I just discover too by reading the few above posts that Bruce Lee took drugs ? 

I know that actors are human beings like us, but I'm as shocked as I was when I had to finally admit that maybe he really had an affair with Ting Pei, after promoting martial arts as almost an art that didn't allow relations with women...

But well, the past is the past, and nobody was here to see if it was real or  not.

I often read the word "estate" when there are discussions about Bruce Lee, what does it exactly mean ?

[AlexanderFu]

!..

Edited August 27 by AlexanderFu

[CharlieParker]

I had no idea about these letters - but I only really frequent this forum and were they mentioned here? Maybe I just missed that post.

I found this link that gives a neat summary (for anyone else like me!)

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/7/17/22581018/bruce-lee-handwritten-letters-about-cocaine-other-drugs-sell-for-almost-500k-marijuana-hash-acid

What a revelation! I knew he liked to smoke a bit of weed but it sounds like he was also quite the hardcore coke user - which would go some way to explaining that famous cocksure demeanour he always had. Looking at his 'shopping list' he was also a bit of a psychedelic warrior. And a dealer to boot. I had no idea.

This must shine a new light on his death, surely? Heaven knows what he was actually consuming and he may well have taken something that was cut to high heaven with something toxic. Something that may not have even shown up in an autopsy in 1973. Remember, if I'm not mistaken, they have to look for what they suspect may be there - it doesn't just reveal itself. 

Didn't he also shoot up steroids or something? The more I read about him, the more I'm thinking this guy was a real-time walking lab experiment. And definitely not surprised he died so young - heavy cocaine use can destroy the heart pretty quick - combine this with his intense workouts. Recipe for disaster. It also might explain Robert Baker's premature death at the age of just 53 from a heart attack.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by CharlieParker

[starschwar]

Have any handwriting experts looked into the veracity of these?  The one pictured in the above link is on Jeet Kune Do stationary.  It seems almost too absurd to be real in how little effort Bruce made to conceal his connection to this illicit activity.  But then again, that stuff can mess up even the sharpest of minds. 

 

Even if it's all true, I still have so much respect for Bruce. And this makes his untimely passing even more tragic.  For all the physical discipline and self-mastery, even he couldn't overcome the addictive properties these substances.  Maybe some good can come of this.  Help some modern day addicts see that there's no shame in seeking help in kicking the habit, that the sensation of invincibility is entirely illusory.

 

Now I'm thinking back to the unfinished Game of Death footage.  At the very end of it.  Hai Tien shrugged off preposterous amounts of physical damage - but only behaves wounded and fatigued after his victory.  Shouting out the pagoda windows for help, but none comes.  Slumping down, step by step.  Was this metaphorical for Bruce's failure to break the habit?  The arduous descent, despite having no more enemies - is it a semi-literal take on the concept of "coming down"? 

[ShawAngela]

17 minutes ago, starschwar said:

Now I'm thinking back to the unfinished Game of Death footage.  At the very end of it.  Hai Tien shrugged off preposterous amounts of physical damage - but only behaves wounded and fatigued after his victory.  Shouting out the pagoda windows for help, but none comes.

Shouting out for help ? In the version I saw (around 45 mn bonus on the HKL dvd), from what I remember to have heard, he shouts that it's finished, and someone outside answers him that it's not finished yet, and, maybe I'm mistaken on this, that it will be finished only until death comes, or something like that.

[Cognoscente]

1 hour ago, starschwar said:

Have any handwriting experts looked into the veracity of these?  The one pictured in the above link is on Jeet Kune Do stationary.  It seems almost too absurd to be real in how little effort Bruce made to conceal his connection to this illicit activity.  But then again, that stuff can mess up even the sharpest of minds. 

I noticed that he only started referring to coke with codenames after September '72.

Also, I'm reminded of that episode of The Simpsons when Bruce wrote "RUSH the sparkle quality LOTS!"
 

 

[starschwar]

5 hours ago, ShawAngela said:

Shouting out for help ? In the version I saw (around 45 mn bonus on the HKL dvd), from what I remember to have heard, he shouts that it's finished, and someone outside answers him that it's not finished yet, and, maybe I'm mistaken on this, that it will be finished only until death comes, or something like that.

 

Good point - I was basing that on the Redux version as featured on the Criterion Collection.  Bruce shouts in Cantonese, which is subtitled as "help me" at one point before descending the last staircase.  The words seem to match his lip movements well.  I don't remember what the Warrior's Journey version used for that footage.

[ShawAngela]

19 hours ago, starschwar said:

 

Good point - I was basing that on the Redux version as featured on the Criterion Collection.  Bruce shouts in Cantonese, which is subtitled as "help me" at one point before descending the last staircase.  The words seem to match his lip movements well.  I don't remember what the Warrior's Journey version used for that footage.

I don't have the Redux version, but why would Bruce Lee ask for help at the end of the movie, after having gotten rid of all the villains ? That doesn't sound logical to me.

[laagi]

Can I just be a bit of a d*ck here and ask who still cares about such revelations. I mean the man has been dead for almost five decades! Does any of this still make a difference?

To those who adore Bruce Lee none of this will change their mind. As mentioned earlier the Estate has and does everything in their power to make him an almost God like philanthropist.

I still respect the man for what he did but by now I find him one of the most overrated individuals in Martial Arts history and cinema. Sorry just my two cents.

[starschwar]

1 hour ago, ShawAngela said:

I don't have the Redux version, but why would Bruce Lee ask for help at the end of the movie, after having gotten rid of all the villains ? That doesn't sound logical to me.

 

It's a very enigmatic moment.  He seems to be struggling with the stairs at that point.  My best guess - ignoring my hypothetical interpretation about the movie's connection to Bruce's inner demons - is that Hai's injuries started catching up to him in a big way.  Perhaps internal bleeding from the fight with Kareem? 

[Cognoscente]

2 hours ago, laagi said:

Can I just be a bit of a d*ck here and ask who still cares about such revelations. I mean the man has been dead for almost five decades! Does any of this still make a difference?

It will be interesting to see how Matthew Polly and Bruce Thomas will go about updating their books.

[CharlieParker]

This is going to be an interesting battle with the Estate vs. (possibly cash-grabbing) journalists.

On the one hand you have this squeaky clean image, but now we have this newly discovered reality that he was anything but squeaky clean. 

So what happens if someone now finds an old friend who is willing to confirm the contents of the letters? I'd say that a book, titled something like "The Real Bruce Lee" may well be inevitable - but could the Estate have it blocked from sale? I wonder what powers they have in this regard? They've copyrighted the poor guy's name, image, words, shoe size, etc. this could be some serious brand hammering and destruction.

Personally, I'd just accept it and stress the fact that he was only human (while also doing $5000 drug deals) 

To be fair, if he was "just" smoking weed, as we all thought, I doubt he'd have got a whole heap done. Just imagine the shot footage of Game of Death - instead of a (coke-fuelled) three floor pagoda showdown and extended fight scenes - with a stoned Bruce Lee we'd probably just have a 5 second shot of Dan Inosanto sitting in a chair looking thoughtful. And maybe 10 different close-ups of the same pair of nunchuks 

But there's no denying one thing - he was a pretty hardcore drug user - and that's something we never really knew for sure until now.

Also, the references to Linda Lee imply she was more than aware of what was going on. But then we can also understand her reasons for not wanting to bring it up - regardless of if he was a famous movie star or just some average guy nobody had heard of. It's perfectly understandable that she'd not want this known. On the other hand, the Estate has made a ton of money from his image - and it's an image we now know to be different. So who's been lying to who here? They're not poor and have profited from maintaining an image they knew all along wasn't quite real. It cuts both ways - I actually think this is the more fascinating part in all of this. It's quite a unique situation and I'm not sure where my sympathies really lie at this point? 

I say this as someone who grew up with a big massive banner of Bruce Lee on the wall from the ages of about 7 to 10 and I did think he was about as invincible and honest and clean living as any other superhero a young boy might look up to (only he had better moves!) Or maybe all of this just proves the obvious, he wasn't a superhero - he was real. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by CharlieParker

[tomgray2404]

10 hours ago, laagi said:

Can I just be a bit of a d*ck here and ask who still cares about such revelations. I mean the man has been dead for almost five decades! Does any of this still make a difference?

To those who adore Bruce Lee none of this will change their mind. As mentioned earlier the Estate has and does everything in their power to make him an almost God like philanthropist.

I still respect the man for what he did but by now I find him one of the most overrated individuals in Martial Arts history and cinema. Sorry just my two cents.

You're certainly not being a d*ck. The VAST majority of people don't care, which is the reason why the story didn't get off the ground. If that news had come out shortly after Bruce Lee's death, it would have been colossal.

Overrated in martial arts history and cinema? Opinion respected, but I can't see it.

As a martial artist, he was light years ahead of his time and that's evidenced by the men he taught and the improvements they made. In fact, if we're going to talk overrated, then I'd go down the line of Chuck Norris, Mike Stone, Luis Delgado, Bob Wall, and whoever else passed themselves off as professional fighters when all they competed in were point-scoring matches. Only Joe Lewis (of that group) took it further. Lee didn't look at martial arts as a sport, but his vision of tailoring a system to suit each individual was revolutionary. For that alone, he deserves unending respect.

In terms of martial arts cinema, Lee was a pioneer. Just look at some of the garbage that was circulating in the early 1970s and you could label his presence a necessity. I think Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan would have broken through regardless, but we could debate how big they would have become. Lee's four-and-a-half movies galvanized the genre and I don't think that can be overstated.

[Cognoscente]

3 hours ago, CharlieParker said:

So what happens if someone now finds an old friend who is willing to confirm the contents of the letters? I'd say that a book, titled something like "The Real Bruce Lee" may well be inevitable - but could the Estate have it blocked from sale? I wonder what powers they have in this regard? They've copyrighted the poor guy's name, image, words, shoe size, etc. this could be some serious brand hammering and destruction.

There are always blogs and YouTube channels to fall back on in case of an embargo.

[Coliseum1972]

"penalties for doing that were as severe back then"

Im pretty sure they hung people back then for drugs in certain countries , over 500 grams is automatic death sentence in Malaysia i believe