Cantonese or Mandarian in HK films?

[Iron_Leopard]

I'm currently rewatching my DVD of "So Close (2002)" which Wikipedia says is a Cantonese language film. However there are two options for Chinese audio tacks on the DVD and I'm trying to figure out which one is Cantonese cause that's the audio I want. What is the best way to tell the difference between the two?

Also while I'm on the subject can someone give me an idea of which era and decades Cantonese was the main language for HK films? Seems like I read somewhere that in the 70s Mandarian became the main language for Shaw Brothers films. Is that true? What about Golden Harvest films? 

[legendarycurry]

I honestly don't know how to describe the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin to you in any technical terms as I am not a speaker of either, but I find the difference between them very distinct. I don't think however that I can explain said difference withput making a fool of myself

I don't know if you have seen the movie Martial Club directed by Lau Kar Leung, but in the Cantonese audio track for that film Wang Lung Wei speaks Mandarin and Gordon Liu speaks Cantonese (as he is playing a Cantonese folk hero) abd they have misunderstandings that contribute to their final confrontation!

I believe for Golden Harvest, the focus on primarily Cantonese films started at around the mid-70's. I seem to recall hearing somewhere that Iron-Fisted Monk was an early example of the "changing of the tide" but don't quote me on that. Cantonese is still technically the "main" language for HK Cinema, it is however increasingly common over the last several years for mainland actors and mainland films co-productions, leading to more films with Mandarin. One way that I knew for sure that the times had changed was when Stephen Chow's The Memaid was shot in Mandarin. He had always been the king of Cantonese Mo Lei Tau ( "Make No Sense") comedies with a lot of Cantonese wordplay and such, but now he was shooting films in Mandarin.

For what it is worth, most HK produced films were shot without sound so as to easily be dubbed into any language that was necessary for various markets, at least up until I belive the release of Supercop in the early 90's which was shot in sync-sound.

 

[Iron_Leopard]

2 hours ago, legendarycurry said:

I honestly don't know how to describe the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin to you in any technical terms as I am not a speaker of either, but I find the difference between them very distinct. I don't think however that I can explain said difference withput making a fool of myself

I don't know if you have seen the movie Martial Club directed by Lau Kar Leung, but in the Cantonese audio track for that film Wang Lung Wei speaks Mandarin and Gordon Liu speaks Cantonese (as he is playing a Cantonese folk hero) abd they have misunderstandings that contribute to their final confrontation!

I believe for Golden Harvest, the focus on primarily Cantonese films started at around the mid-70's. I seem to recall hearing somewhere that Iron-Fisted Monk was an early example of the "changing of the tide" but don't quote me on that. Cantonese is still technically the "main" language for HK Cinema, it is however increasingly common over the last several years for mainland actors and mainland films co-productions, leading to more films with Mandarin. One way that I knew for sure that the times had changed was when Stephen Chow's The Memaid was shot in Mandarin. He had always been the king of Cantonese Mo Lei Tau ( "Make No Sense") comedies with a lot of Cantonese wordplay and such, but now he was shooting films in Mandarin.

For what it is worth, most HK produced films were shot without sound so as to easily be dubbed into any language that was necessary for various markets, at least up until I belive the release of Supercop in the early 90's which was shot in sync-sound.

 

Thanks for the reply. This helps. 

I think I realize now what my issue was while watching So Close. I believe Zhao Wei and Shu Qi are speaking Mandarian but are dubbed in the Cantonese audio track. That was confusing the hell out of me. I guess they don't know Cantonese and like you mentioned it doesn't really matter when they usually dub it for whatever country it's going to play in. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Iron_Leopard

[One Armed Boxer]

2 hours ago, Iron_Leopard said:

What is the best way to tell the difference between the two?

Watch any HK Jet Li movie up to the mid 1990's - when you can tell it sounds nothing like his actual voice, that's Cantonese.

[ShawAngela]

Cantonese is more guttural to hear, with sounds like "ng", while Mandarin is more melodious. For instance, Yueh Hua's Cantonese name is Ngok Wah.

While for saying "I know", Mandarin says in phonetics "djidao"(zhidao in pinyin), Cantonese will say "dzi".

 

[Chu Liu Hsiang]

Can you post a screenshot of the menu where you are supposed to choose the language?

[Iron_Leopard]

12 hours ago, Chu Liu Hsiang said:

Can you post a screenshot of the menu where you are supposed to choose the language?

Yes. When I get home from work today I'll edit this post with a screenshot.

Edit: Some of the actors lips were matching with the Mandarian track which is what was confusing me. 

@Chu Liu Hsiang

Edited March 19, 2022 by Iron_Leopard

[bigrogie]

After 40+ years I still can't tell them apart..... 

[Gaijin84]

It's really just knowing what you're listening to for many years and picking up on distinct tones. To me, Mandarin has a lot of tongue-rolled-back "errr" sounds in it while Cantonese drags out the last parts of sentences. I'm afraid the only way is to "practice." A good idea might be to watch a lot of mainland films where there are no Cantonese track options and start to get used to hearing Mandarin. Watch all of the Gong Li/Zhang Yimou movies - they are Mandarin only as well as being absolutely amazing.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Gaijin84

[Iron_Leopard]

2 hours ago, Gaijin84 said:

It's really just knowing what you're listening to for many years and picking up on distinct tones. To me, Mandarin has a lot of tongue-rolled-back "errr" sounds in it while Cantonese drags out the last parts of sentences. I'm afraid the only way is to "practice." A good idea might be to watch a lot of mainland films where there are no Cantonese track options and start to get used to hearing Mandarin. Watch all of the Gong Li/Zhang Yimou movies - they are Mandarin only as well as being absolutely amazing.

That reminds me. I was wanting to get that box set that came out recently.

[Gaijin84]

4 minutes ago, Iron_Leopard said:

That reminds me. I was wanting to get that box set that came out recently.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Collaborations-Cinema-Zhang-Yimou-Gong/dp/B098GX29HF

Indeed!

Edited March 19, 2022 by Gaijin84

[morpheus]

A lot of the 70s Shaw titles were in the Mandarin dialect.  Personally I prefer listening to Cantonese, which is why I appreciate films like Last Hurrah for Chivalry (a Golden Harvest release), Men from The Gutter, and The House of 72 Tenants. However, if I do have a choice in the audio tracks, I have always opted for the original soundtrack, no matter the dialect. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by morpheus

[Chu Liu Hsiang]

18 hours ago, Iron_Leopard said:

Yes. When I get home from work today I'll edit this post with a screenshot.

Edit: Some of the actors lips were matching with the Mandarian track which is what was confusing me. 

@Chu Liu Hsiang

I misunderstood your question, i thought the menu would have no English description (I have some such discs). Maybe this Video helps. 

 

[Iron_Leopard]

5 hours ago, Chu Liu Hsiang said:

I misunderstood your question, i thought the menu would have no English description (I have some such discs). Maybe this Video helps. 

 

Actually I think you did understand my question originally. When I made my original post I hadn't seen that menu yet. I was changing between audio tracks on the PS3 menu bar while the movie was playing.

If I had went to the language menu first I wouldn't have had to make this thread.

[khuu_2000]

Hi,I hope to be able to give you a more precise answer, a large part of the films of the 70s are in Mandarin (a Chinese dialect), from around 78-80 the films are in Cantonese (because in Hong Kong, we speak Cantonese), in China, everyone understands and speaks Mandarin and in Taiwan too (Cantonese is spoken everywhere in Hong Kong and Southeast Asian countries), I have noticed many times the movies are in Mandarin again for the Chinese and international market (co-produced by China and Hong Kong)

[One Armed Boxer]

8 hours ago, khuu_2000 said:

Cantonese is spoken everywhere in Hong Kong and Southeast Asian countries

Huh? I’m not a language expert by any means, but I don’t think you’ll find Cantonese being spoken in the likes of Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia etc.

[morpheus]

2 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Huh? I’m not a language expert by any means, but I don’t think you’ll find Cantonese being spoken in the likes of Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia etc.

Cantonese is actually spoken in areas of SE Asia, although not widely spoken.  It kind of makes sense geographically since Guanzhou is closer in proximity.  I don't know the percentages of people who actually speak the language or if the numbers are falling since Mainland China promotes the use of Mandarin.  I'm not a linguistics expert either.  I guess it just shows how connected different parts of the world truly are.

[galvatron1976]

3 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Huh? I’m not a language expert by any means, but I don’t think you’ll find Cantonese being spoken in the likes of Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia etc.

Cantonese is widely spoken in Kuala Lumpur  Chinatown ,Ipoh,Sandakan  because of TVB and HK Cinema ,while Mandarin is Spoken in Johor etc.

 

 

 

majority of Chinese In Malaysia ,Singapore are Hokkien and Hakka while Cantonese are 3rd Majority

Edited March 20, 2022 by galvatron1976

[Asmo]

3 hours ago, galvatron1976 said:

Cantonese is widely spoken in Kuala Lumpur  Chinatown ,Ipoh,Sandakan  because of TVB and HK Cinema ,while Mandarin is Spoken in Johor etc.

 

 

 

majority of Chinese In Malaysia ,Singapore are Hokkien and Hakka while Cantonese are 3rd Majority

Some pockets of Penang too.
It's also a minority language among the Chinese in Indonesia, Laos, and a majority language among the urban-dwelling (and some rural-dwelling) Chinese in Vietnam.

[Iron_Leopard]

What's being spoken in this video? My guess is Mandarian but I'm not positive.

 

[Chu Liu Hsiang]

Your ears were right, it's Mandarin

[ShawAngela]

Yes, it's Mandarin, but who are the actresses ? I recgnized Barbara Yun Mei Ling, but not the other one, and as Yun Mei Ling has passed away a long time ago, I guess that it's not here one can see at 60...

[Iron_Leopard]

37 minutes ago, ShawAngela said:

Yes, it's Mandarin, but who are the actresses ? I recgnized Barbara Yun Mei Ling, but not the other one, and as Yun Mei Ling has passed away a long time ago, I guess that it's not here one can see at 60...

That youtube channel posts a lot of videos like this talking about older actors and actresses. That's why I subscribed to them even though I don't speak Chinese. I just like seeing pictures and videos about older times. 

I too would like to know who that is in the thumbnail.