Sammo Hung's Missed Opportunity!

[Guest JOSEPH KUBY]

Well, at least we can all agree that Sammo, Ping and Leung are better than Gillard!:lol

[The Dragon]

... But, Lucas' SW Prequels would have done nothing but benefit from Sammo's fight direction. It would have placed the era of the Jedis in a more mystic period, seeing that by the time A New Hope came along, Vader was mostly machine, Obi Wan was ancient, and Yoda was 1000 yrs old.

It would have been great to see an actual display of the different styles that the warriors practiced.

As for the best swordsplay choreographers available; the best in my opinion are...

Sammo

Lau Kar Liang

Ching Siu Tung

[AlbertV]

I like various styles of choreography and if Sammo had done the SW prequels, I think with his skills in weapons fights, it would have been outstanding.

My favorite HK choreographers to see are:

Sammo Hung

Lau Kar-Leung

Tony Leung Siu-Hung

Jackie Chan

Corey Yuen

Each brings his own style to the table.

I will admit, I did like Nick Gilliard's choreography on Episode III between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

[Righteous Master]

It seems rather obvious to me that Sammo would have bested Nick. I feel that Nick did a good job though. Great topic! I never would have guessed in my wildest dreams that Sammo was considered by George Lucas!

[David Rees]

I think Sammo's choreography is more to western tastes, i.e. showing the power of the impact or technique. Like John Woo his films were cult hits in the west and at film festivals but did not perform for the fickle HK market hence his split from Golden Harvest.

I also think Martial Law, especially season 1 showed what appeal Sammo can have in the west, its just a shame that no-one from Hollywood has used him since then.

Just check out the end of Gambling Ghost for powerful traditional techniques, in this case Wing Chun, in a modern setting...awesome!

[AlbertV]

Martial Law was a great series in Season 1. However, once Arsenio Hall came in and then they completely changed the storyline with Season 2, I felt robbed and Sammo should have felt that way as well. The only thing I liked in Season 2 is the appearance of Sung Kang (The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift, Better Luck Tomorrow) as Sammo's son and how at first he showed hatred for his father. But they should have kept Lee, the Triad leader who was Sammo's archrival, not the so-called "One".

Just for collector's reason, I taped the very last episode of the show when it first aired on CBS and still have it to this day.

[TheGrimReaper]

I think that Sammo (if accepted the position of action choreographer for Star Wars) would be restricted by visions of Lucas regarding the fights - camera angles, showing certain moves, relying heavily on CGI to raise the WOW level from the audience, not allowing for full range of Sammo's abilities to be shown on screen. While it would be great t osee Sammmo choreographing the fights in this epic series, i think that this colaboration would be on the short side in showing the full potential of such merge

[The Dragon]

...While it would be great to see Sammmo choreographing the fights in this epic series, i think that this colaboration would be on the short side in showing the full potential of such merge

I think Sammo would have been great at fleshing out the various Jedi Warrior fighting styles. That expertise would have added a different dynamic to the films action, CGI or not.

[Joseph_Kuby]

I agree with the last post.

I certainly think the fights would not have been any more pointless for Sammo to direct than Ping choreographing the Matrix films.:l

To saying something similar to what Sam Raimi said about John Woo directing Hard Target, Sammo Hung delivering only 70% in a Star Wars movie would still be superior to Nick delivering at 100%.

When I went onto the IMDB profile of Nick Gillard, I found an interview in the message board where Nick admitted that one of the fights he directed (the one between Mace and Palpatine) was (to quote Nick) "a fuck up. Rubbish."XD Straight from the horse's mouth.!

In the interview, Nick points out that a lot of the stuff he initially intended to be shown was either rejected in production or post-production.XD

You have to wonder whether George didn't want Sammo because he was afraid he'd be outshone.

To be more specific, if the prequels gave Sammo publicity as a fight choreographer then people would eventually find out about Sammo's directorial credentials (maybe George was worried that people would see Sammo as the best {or least critically savaged} director ).

[punt44]

Dude, those Star Wars films sucked anyways. Would have been a waste of time.

[Joseph_Kuby]

I don't think Sammo working on the films would have been a waste (unless if you're talking about the punching and kicking side of things).

As far as action movies go, the suckage of the Star Wars prequels isn't any worse than the sort of Hong Kong action film where there's spectacular action but lousy comedy (Twinkle Twinkle Lucky Stars), weak plotting (In the Line of Duty 4) and bad acting (Tower of Death). I certainly don't think they suck more than any other action film made outside of Hong Kong which isn't exactly an Oscar winner/BAFTA nominee (like the English language Seasonal films or Drive).

The emotional power that sets up the final fight of Episode III is no lesser than the finale of The Victim (which also has two "brothers" in a fight to the death) or Legend of a Fighter (which also has master versus student).

For what the fight scenes are in concept (i.e. in terms of longevity and diversity of style), Sammo's flair for intricate action would have been put to good use.

I think Sammo would have a lot more to work with than what Corey had for X Men. The latter film is where you could truly say the CGI (used to create the powers of the combatants than the environments) would not have allowed a HK director to work his magic.

Beyond the use of the force, the lightsaber fights were, for the most part, sword battles in space. Conceptually, they weren't too esoteric for Sammo to work with (like the Gun Kata stuff seen in Equilibrium).

Even if one points out that the actors in Star Wars aren't as fast as veteran performers of HK style action, there was always the method of using subtle undercranking thereby having the people film their actions slowly which not only would allow for greater clarity of technique (than a hurried blur) but also allow the time to emote (depending on the closeness of shots) as well as a reserved sense of pace when it comes to being able to remember the amount of techniques required for a long shot (thus less outtakes).

At any rate, looking beyond the lack of martial arts, Sammo's ability for choreographing ornate duels that go on for longer than two minutes would not have been squandered. The three way duel involving Dooku, Kenobi and Anakin in Episode III is a sterling example of that.

[blue_skies]

Having an 80 or 90 year old non screen martial-arts playing Count Dooku pretty much spelt the end for quality light sabre duels in Star Wars prequels. Sammo or no Sammo there was nothing they could do with that actor.

To be fair none of the actors looked half as good in episodes two and three as they did in the Phantom menace facing Darth maul. Sorry I can't remember his name, but that guy really made them look good.

Personally I found the light sabre duels in attack of the clones and revenge of the Sith to be highly disappointed and as much as the film's needed some skilled martial artist playing A Sith. Having a great martial-arts choreographer like Sammo could have only been positive for the fight sequences.

[Joseph_Kuby]

With the Dooku and Palpatine fights, they just digitally lifted Christopher Lee's and Ian McDiarmid's faces onto stuntmen so we should really blame the sloppy Western stuntmen than some old dudes.

If Sammo worked on the film using HK stunt doubles (for instance when Biao doubled the fencer in Wheels on Meals) then the old guys (and other digitally replaced people) wouldn't have looked as bad. Same thing in regards to the motion capturing sequence involving the protagonists taking on droids armed with lightsabers and lightspears.

Ray Park is an excellent martial artist who wasn't utilized to his best under Gillard's direction. Imagine what a HK director could do with him.

I think Park subconsciously knew that Gillard wasn't really the ideal man for the job but didn't want to say anything to offend people.:quiet:

Even the Venoms choreographers (Kuo Chui, Lu Feng, Robert Tai and Leung Ting) could have done a significantly better job than Gillard.

...and to think there's people out there who think Gillard was the best candidate for the role!

My opinion is that the lightsaber duels needed a slight usage of undercranking to make them less sloppy. A friend of mine once said that he thought a lot of the action was a bit too slow.

The funny thing about Attack of the Clones was that it was rumored that Jet Li was to play Jango Fett and that John Woo was to be the director.XD

On that note, I think each prequel could have gained a certain level of respect had each film be directed by someone else e.g. Episode I = Steven Spielberg, Episode II = Terry Gilliam and Episode III = Tim Burton.

I always felt that Phantom Menace not only had the most impressive fighting but the film had the best look since it was shot on film rather than digital video.

[blue_skies]

did anyone else notice the light sabres were wider in RotS compared to tPM? No doubt to add more blur to disguise how poor the fights really were, well IMO.

[Joseph_Kuby]

I wonder who will choreograph the fight scenes for the live-action TV series.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Even as a kid, when I saw the first 3 Star Wars films, I was sorely disappointed with the physical combat in them. Everything else to me was great but all the light saber duels I found to be severely lacking. With the 3 prequels, I considered them all to be vastly better in the area of physical combat. An HK choreographer would have be sweet for these and only made them better. I would love see what Sammo could have pulled off.

It very well may be that Lucas felt he needed to drastically tone down the LS fights in the prequels so as not to totally blow out what had been done in the first SW trilogy even though, as I said previously, I still find them superior especially in the Phantom Menace. The LS stuff in the next 2 prequels seemed more in line with that of the first trilogy though I found them to be better also.

Hollywood is always ripping people off. Why doesn't someone rip off SW(a rip-off to some degree itself but a good one), tweak the storyline, and redo the action properly?

[thelastweaponmaster]

I wonder who will choreograph the fight scenes for the live-action TV series.

I believe George Lucas has said recently that the live-action TV series is on hold due to how expensive it would be to make the episodes. I have my doubts that they will ever materialize.

[Joseph_Kuby]

Even as a kid, when I saw the first 3 Star Wars films, I was sorely disappointed with the physical combat in them. Everything else to me was great but all the light saber duels I found to be severely lacking.

The funny thing is that's my opinion of the prequels. I can sympathize with George as to why the fights in the sequels were not all that happening because Darth was a stiff because of his suit and Luke was a novice.

Hollywood is always ripping people off. Why doesn't someone rip off SW(a rip-off to some degree itself but a good one), tweak the storyline, and redo the action properly?

Just recently, I came across a Transformers knock-off entitled Transmorphers:bigsmile: so I don't know how that would go down. Maybe if someone was to take the series and transfer it into ancient China then we'd get something less obvious.

Coincidentally, I read reviews of Kung Fu Cult Master and New Legend of Shaolin which suggested they were like Star Wars movies except set in ancient China.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Really? Reviewers thought 'Kung Fu Cult Master' and 'New Legend of Shaolin' are SW knock-offs(so to speak)? I guess I need to re-watch those. Neither of them ever gave me that impression. Ah well, to each his own and to me a ham, egg, and cheese sandwich.

[kaleyboy]

Kung Fu Cult Master was made by director Wong Jing as a new wave homage to the OTT swordplay movies of his youth. New Legend Of Shaolin is a knock-off of the Lone Wolf & Cub movies, not Star Wars.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

If you want to see a good Star Wars homage/gag, check out the end fight of The Legend of the Owl.

[blue_skies]

I believe George Lucas has said recently that the live-action TV series is on hold due to how expensive it would be to make the episodes. I have my doubts that they will ever materialize.

I forget how many years I have been waiting for the live-action TV series? I think your right they may never materialise. Perhaps it's a good thing as it would probably be a disappointment anyway.

[Iron Boat]

I preferred THE LS duels in the original trilogy. They were not over the top and actually had a purporse in the film. The Prequels were nothing but special effects bull crap. You didn't even care about those battles cause you could see its nothing but digital effects and digital battles. I enjoyed actually watching Vader and Luke duel rather than the video game prequels.

[Joseph_Kuby]

For Kung Fu Cult Master, Maurice R. Hing (on Amazon) typed:

"Quite frankly, the movie plot could easily be translated into a Star Wars episode!"

For New Legend of Shaolin, someone on IMDB typed:

"It is almost a Chinese version of Star Wars and features plenty of action scenes, as you would expect. The government is looking for maps to rebel treasure, and Jet is in hiding with his son Ting (Tse). They even come into contact with a couple of con artists."

I'm assuming that critic was likening Jet & Tse to C-3PO & R2-D2 and Chingmy & Deanie to Han Solo & Chewbacca.

[kaleyboy]

For Kung Fu Cult Master, Maurice R. Hing (on Amazon) typed:

"Quite frankly, the movie plot could easily be translated into a Star Wars episode!"

For New Legend of Shaolin, someone on IMDB typed:

"It is almost a Chinese version of Star Wars and features plenty of action scenes, as you would expect. The government is looking for maps to rebel treasure, and Jet is in hiding with his son Ting (Tse). They even come into contact with a couple of con artists."

I'm assuming that critic was likening Jet & Tse to C-3PO & R2-D2 and Chingmy & Deanie to Han Solo & Chewbacca.

Those are just some people's opinions - not fact. In what way are these movies remotely like SW's? Except that they featrure good vs evil - as does 99% of all movies. Anyone can type a review for both hamazon and imdb.