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The Vinegar Syndrome Blu-ray Thread


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11 hours ago, Yihetuan said:

You still haven't answered if @Irongod2112 was right about the Best of Martial Arts supplemental feature being an upscale, in the wrong aspect ratio, & the audio being out of pitch? That's all I'm concerned about and the basis of my initial inquiry. If he's correct then I fail to see it as an "opinion" & more of him stating a fact. Now, if he's pulling all of these errors on the VS release out of his ass and fabricating or embellishing then that's a different matter entirely.

Irongod's pretty much right. Not sure about the audio pitch but a bunch of the footage does not show up at the right aspect ratio including Righting Wrongs itself, and I'm pretty sure none of the footage taken from other movies actually uses recent remasters. A clip of Fist of Fury shown looked ridiculously DNR'd and a bunch of others are just the standard upscales (including Righting Wrongs itself again).

You can see some screencaps here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=20328495&postcount=92

It's still great that Vinegar Syndrome were able to include it, but more could certainly be done. Also I find it extremely misleading to characterize the 88 crew as just "bitching and moaning" about the VS release considering I do follow them on Twitter/read their posts on other forums. Curiously, all of Katakuri's posts seem to just be encouraging this 88/VinSyn bad blood?

Edited by panzer
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DEADLIEST ART was made in 1990, intended as a direct to VHS and laserdisc release.  Unless Fortune Star went back and did a direct re-edit from all negative materials of each film in their vaults, the only version that likely exists is an SD version.  Hell, it might have been edited on videotape.  I know that John Saxon filmed his bits in one afternoon.  Weintraub was a cheapskate and made that doc for as little money as possible. 

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7 minutes ago, dionbrother said:

DEADLIEST ART was made in 1990, intended as a direct to VHS and laserdisc release.  Unless Fortune Star went back and did a direct re-edit from all negative materials of each film in their vaults, the only version that likely exists is an SD version.  Hell, it might have been edited on videotape.  I know that John Saxon filmed his bits in one afternoon.  Weintraub was a cheapskate and made that doc for as little money as possible. 

It may have an internegative or interpositive that was transferred to 1080p circa 2010 (as seen on Mediumrare’s DVD).

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On 8/11/2022 at 4:01 PM, Katakuri said:

The fact Irongod gave an opinion about a direct competitor’s release, without having the decency to actually have the VS release in hand,

I didn't read all the posts by lack of time, but the first idea that comes to my mind when I read this is "is it mentioned somewhere that @Irongod2112 didn't have the Vinegar Syndrome release in hand when he posted his comments ?" Unless we all live in his house together with him, there is no proof that he didn't. But once again, I haven't read all the posts and maybe he said that he didn't have this release.

Sorry if I jumped in this discussion like "a hair in the soup" as we say here.

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ATTENTION: regarding the Vinegar Syndrome VS 88 Film's RIGHTING WRONGS debate

Hey everybody, how about if we discuss instead of battle? I can see that things have gotten out of hand, but this is a discussion of entertainment, not life or death, so lets put down the torches and broken bottles and reconsider talking instead of attacking one another. Please. Yes?

First of all, in the interest of full disclosure, I have done work for both companies being discussed. Though I've done more work for 88 Films than Vinegar Syndrome, both companies are a joy to work for and I have no complaints about either. Additionally, as a major collector of physical media I have been buying and enjoying releases from both companies since long before I was ever employed by either. My third point of relevance in this matter, is that I did not work on either companies' release of RIGHTING WRONGS, and I am a huge fan of the film and have long been dreaming of it getting a nice Blu-ray edition.

Putting emotions aside for a minute, here are the facts...

 

- RIGHTING WRONGS is a film highly rated by most Hong Kong action fans and we are incredibly lucky that it has not only received a decent HD release, but two deluxe, HD special editions. This is certainly above and beyond what any of us would've expected up until about five years ago.

- Over the years, and more and more in recent times, many Hong Kong movie fans on both sides of the ocean have complained "Why is this great edition coming out, but not in my region?"

- Now we have arrived at a moment that many physical media collectors have asked for- a desirable film getting special treatment from two different caring companies for two major regions.

- Everyone, especially those with All-Region Blu-ray players, now has an option to get RIGHTING WRONGS in the form of special features-laden releases with fancy packaging and extras.

 

So it would make sense that everyone in every corner should be extremely happy about all this, right? :nerd:  Ah, but that's where the "emotional element" comes into play. :squigglemouth:

It seems that the major issue people are having is that they feel "their" company- whichever side you may be on, if you've chosen a side- is right/better, or that the other side has been insulting or disparaging. Some people here on the forum, on the Blu-ray.com forum, and several other places have been getting pissed off about this situation.  I do understand. Here on the forum I've been asked by both "sides" to intervene. Here are my thoughts on the situation...

Though some may not like what's being said, who's saying it, and where it's being said, everything that people are getting riled up about is exactly what a "forum" is supposed to be!

DEFINITION OF FORUM:

fo·rum
/ˈfôrəm/
noun
  1. 1.
    a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    "it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on medical research"

So it's irrational to be angered or disappointed by the discussion of the two different versions here and in the 88 thread as that's exactly the point of these threads.

To touch on some specifics, if I could only afford to buy one of the two versions of RIGHTING WRONGS* I'd want to know which one I would prefer, so I'd search for information... in this forum. Some people, respected friends included, have said that they are getting "turned off to 88 Films" because of comments made by some of the people that work for 88 regarding the Vinegar Syndrome release. That's a shame. I'm sorry to hear people are being affected this way, but just like the text page "views expressed disclaimer/opinion disclaimer" we see on many physical releases proclaims: the opinions expressed within the post's content are solely the author's and do not reflect the opinions and beliefs of the company, website, or its affiliates. They're just free individuals expressing themselves. @OldPangYau worked for months on the 88 version and when VS announced theirs, he (to me, understandably) felt like "But wait, there's also this coming" and said so. It wasn't malicious. You may think it was unnecessary, and that's fine. Those are two different opinions. @Irongod2112 is a hardcore Hong Kong cinema fan and wants everything to be as close to perfect as it can be on every release, no matter the company. He has expressed regret/pointed out flaws on releases that he has worked on too (the companies don't always listen to or follow guidance). He isn't commenting as some sort of arch nemesis of VS, only as a guy/fan that knows the info that he's sharing. And, the things he's said are true. No, he doesn't own the VS release, but many trusted friends have stated that THE BEST OF THE MARTIAL ARTS FILMS/ THE DEADLIEST ART documentary on the VS set is not completely presented in HD, so why would he doubt them? He admitted he received the knowledge second-hand, but he had many sources. For the record, and I haven't spoken to him about it, but I do own the VS release and it is true- it's not all HD and some of the clips are in the wrong aspect ratio. As for some of the questions revolving around the how and why of this, usually things are more complicated than they may seem from the outside looking in. You might assume that a company owns a film, you pay the licensing for it, and you get exactly what you once saw in the theater years ago. Not so. For a variety of reasons there are often multiple versions, and sometimes things that were changed by the copyright holder in the interim years. I owned THE DEADLIEST ART: THE BEST OF THE MARTIAL ARTS FILMS on laser disc and watched and showed it to dozens of people. And for instance, without a doubt, the footage of Bruce Lee on the VS version of the doc is not the same as I watched for all these years. It's from an overly DNR'ed (Digital Noise Reduction, which if over-used can result in loss of detail and create waxy-looking faces) source, so Fortune Star (the company the doc was licensed from) have made some changes instead of simply providing VS with the exact same release that we all saw in 1990. One of the guys from VS said something negative about the sound on a recent 88 release, and much was made of it by others. Does he hate 88? Is he trying to destroy them? Get revenge for the competitive comments about the RIGHTING WRONGS release? Uh... I doubt it. I'd guess he simply felt there was a negative element to the audio on that film and voiced his opinion about it (since deleted, probably to quell the combative fires others created). He's a film fan, he bought that release, and stated something he felt. Lines were not drawn.

And I'll tell you all some insider info to demonstrate that things are not as black and white nor malicious as some may think. One of the guys (I won't say who) working for 88 on RIGHTING WRONGS (and many other titles) noticed there was a technical issue with the prints provided by Fortune Star. It's the kind of thing that not everyone would've caught, but for certain, some people would notice upon its Blu-ray release. He assumed correctly that VS would receive the same problematic print, so he reached out to them to let them know in case they missed it. He didn't consider keeping the info to himself so that the version he worked on could be better, he only wanted the fans purchasing any version of the film to get the best release possible. For whatever reason VS didn't respond, but he tried a few more times over a couple of months. He could easily have shrugged "well, I tried" and let it be. But instead, he kept trying. He asked me, knowing I had done some work for VS, if I could possibly put him directly in touch with someone there so he could warn them of the flaw, and I was able to help them connect. This is the kind of behavior that we should all strive for. Helping one another be our best instead of focusing on what divides us. Differences of opinion are healthy, even if you disagree with them. I wouldn't want us to all be the same color, religion, wear the same clothes, all like and dislike the same things. That's called being a plastic clone! As long as our differences aren't violent or harmful I think we should all embrace them. That's why you're really here, right? To learn from other like-minded people what they do or don't like, what they recommend, etc, so as to inform yourself.

Not every release, no matter who puts it out, is going to please everyone. I was disappointed and griped about 88's SDH-only subtitles back on their 2019 release of SNAKE & CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN (it's a personal pet peeve- I hate reading stuff like "thunderous music plays" when I just want translations of dialogue and text. Other people don't mind this at all. Again, we all have differences, and that's fine). Are there things I'm not thrilled with on the VS release of RIGHTING WRONGS? Yes, a few minor things (which others have already mentioned). But the good far out-weighs the bad. It's a fantastic release and I am so glad I bought it. As for "VS or 88's version- which is better?"... healthy competition almost always results in higher and higher quality products being released all around. No doubt fans will find much to love from each of them. I raise a toast to and give my respect to VS, 88, and all the other labels out there putting out discs of the films we love. Bravo, and thank you all!

In conclusion, you (yes, you) may have an issue with what's being said here, but it's not personal. We don't welcome personal insults and attacks here, and several people have crossed the line a bit in these recent posts. Be cool people. :bigsmile: You can disagree and express your opinions with respect. Speak/write to others as you'd want to be spoken/written to. It's that simple. Let's keep it real and respectfully speak our minds here.

(I'm also posting this same thing in the 88 Films thread.)

* Technically I can only afford to buy one, yet I ordered both, despite it not really being "in the budget", deciding to skip other wants of mine in deference to these two sets. :angel

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Cynthia Rothrock has confirmed in this video (starts at 1:40) that VS will be putting out YES, MADAM:

 

Edited by nahnahnah
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Not it isn't. Those working on it have said it is not VS. She is just giving an answer about WHAT is coming out and not WHO is doing it. It seems to be pretty clear that is 88 doing it in the US.

Edited by bickle14
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VS-409_slipcover_mockup_front_preorder_2

 

Fong Sau Ching is the Chief Royal Guard during the Ming Dynasty, whose job is to protect the Emperor at all costs, including with his own life. One day, Ching discovers that one of his men, Fung San, is a sadistic rapist with a penchant for murdering his victims by breaking their limbs. After Fung San attacks the Princess and several other women, Ching is tasked by the Emperor with hunting down and killing him in order to restore his own honor. However, things take an unexpected turn when the two men come face-to-face for a duel to the death, only to become literally frozen in time by a mystical device known as the "Wheel of Life and Death." 300 years later, in modern Hong Kong, Ching and Fung San are accidentally thawed out. Unfamiliar with his surroundings, Ching struggles to adapt to his strange new environment and soon finds himself at the mercy of an obnoxious call girl named Polly while attempting to continue to search for Fung San, but little does he know that Fung San is adapting quite nicely to both the weapons and crime ridden modern world and is beginning to resume his murderous ways.

Featuring an awesome, action-packed final face-off that ranks amongst the most over the top in Hong Kong cinema, Clarence Fok's (The Naked Killer) THE ICEMAN COMETH skillfully combines daring action set pieces with fantasy and horror elements, all wrapped in a comedic "fish out of water" scenario. Packed with memorable and death defying stunt work, including a fight on top of a jeep hanging from a construction crane, and starring Hong Kong action superstar Yeun Biao (Righting Wrongs), legendary stuntman Yeun Wah (Rendezvous With Death) and acclaimed actress Maggie Cheug (In The Mood For Love), Vinegar Syndrome is proud to present this piece of genre defying Hong Kong cinema, complete with sword fights, gunplay, and a healthy dose of dark and mystical elements.

directed by: Clarence Fok
starring: Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah, Maggie Cheung
Hong Kong Cut: 115 min / 1989 / 1.85:1 / Cantonese Mono & 2 English Dub Tracks
Mandarin Export Cut: 122 min / 1989 / 1.85:1 / Mandarin Mono

Additional info:

2-disc Region A Blu-ray Set
Studio supplied master with additional color grading and restoration performed by VS
The 115 minute 'Hong Kong Cut' is presented with the following mono soundtrack options: Cantonese original language with newly translated English subtitles and two English dub soundtracks (original and a late-period redub)
Alternate 122 minute 'Mandarin Export Cut' is presented with it's original mono soundtrack with newly translated English subtitles
Commentary track with film historian & author Samm Deighan
“Frame by Frame, Frame by Frame” - a brand new interview with cinematographer Poon Hang Sang
“Warrior Prince” - an interview with actor Yuen Biao
“Nemesis” - an interview with actor Yuen Wah
Hong Kong Trailer
English Language Trailer
Alternate English title sequence
Booklet with essay by film historian and author John Charles
Reversible cover artwork
Newly translated English subtitles

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Chemical Lemon
18 minutes ago, nahnahnah said:

VS-409_slipcover_mockup_front_preorder_2

 

Fong Sau Ching is the Chief Royal Guard during the Ming Dynasty, whose job is to protect the Emperor at all costs, including with his own life. One day, Ching discovers that one of his men, Fung San, is a sadistic rapist with a penchant for murdering his victims by breaking their limbs. After Fung San attacks the Princess and several other women, Ching is tasked by the Emperor with hunting down and killing him in order to restore his own honor. However, things take an unexpected turn when the two men come face-to-face for a duel to the death, only to become literally frozen in time by a mystical device known as the "Wheel of Life and Death." 300 years later, in modern Hong Kong, Ching and Fung San are accidentally thawed out. Unfamiliar with his surroundings, Ching struggles to adapt to his strange new environment and soon finds himself at the mercy of an obnoxious call girl named Polly while attempting to continue to search for Fung San, but little does he know that Fung San is adapting quite nicely to both the weapons and crime ridden modern world and is beginning to resume his murderous ways.

Featuring an awesome, action-packed final face-off that ranks amongst the most over the top in Hong Kong cinema, Clarence Fok's (The Naked Killer) THE ICEMAN COMETH skillfully combines daring action set pieces with fantasy and horror elements, all wrapped in a comedic "fish out of water" scenario. Packed with memorable and death defying stunt work, including a fight on top of a jeep hanging from a construction crane, and starring Hong Kong action superstar Yeun Biao (Righting Wrongs), legendary stuntman Yeun Wah (Rendezvous With Death) and acclaimed actress Maggie Cheug (In The Mood For Love), Vinegar Syndrome is proud to present this piece of genre defying Hong Kong cinema, complete with sword fights, gunplay, and a healthy dose of dark and mystical elements.

directed by: Clarence Fok
starring: Yuen Biao, Yuen Wah, Maggie Cheung
Hong Kong Cut: 115 min / 1989 / 1.85:1 / Cantonese Mono & 2 English Dub Tracks
Mandarin Export Cut: 122 min / 1989 / 1.85:1 / Mandarin Mono

Additional info:

2-disc Region A Blu-ray Set
Studio supplied master with additional color grading and restoration performed by VS
The 115 minute 'Hong Kong Cut' is presented with the following mono soundtrack options: Cantonese original language with newly translated English subtitles and two English dub soundtracks (original and a late-period redub)
Alternate 122 minute 'Mandarin Export Cut' is presented with it's original mono soundtrack with newly translated English subtitles
Commentary track with film historian & author Samm Deighan
“Frame by Frame, Frame by Frame” - a brand new interview with cinematographer Poon Hang Sang
“Warrior Prince” - an interview with actor Yuen Biao
“Nemesis” - an interview with actor Yuen Wah
Hong Kong Trailer
English Language Trailer
Alternate English title sequence
Booklet with essay by film historian and author John Charles
Reversible cover artwork
Newly translated English subtitles

I may be staring another double dip in the face. 

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When his partner is killed by the Yakuza, Tokyo detective Thomas Hoshino (Don "The Dragon" Wilson) travels to Los Angeles to pursue the men responsible. After confronting one of the Yakuza leaders in an LAPD elevator, Hoshino witnesses the gangster die in a mysterious fashion. Skeptical of Hoshino, Police Captain Meisler (Michael Ironside) assigns Det. Karen Ryder (Terry Farrell) to watch over Hoshino and make sure he doesn't interfere with the case. Putting aside their cultural differences, the two detectives begin working together and soon uncover evidence of an international gun smuggling ring involving the Yakuza, crooked cops, and local gang members. All the while, a mysterious assassin with the ability to kill with a single touch is after Hoshino and his new partner.

Starring World Kickboxing Champion, Don "The Dragon" Wilson (Ring of Fire, New York Ninja), RED SUN RISING is an explosive action thriller with fast-paced fight scenes choreographed by Wilson himself, along with fight choreographer Art Camacho. Co-starring Terry Farrell (Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth), Michael Ironside (Total Recall), and Japanese character actor Mako (Conan the Barbarian), Vinegar Syndrome Archive is proud to present this under-seen slice of 90s action on Blu-ray, newly restored and scanned in 4K from its 35mm original camera negative.

directed by: Francis Megahy
starring: Don "The Dragon" Wilson, Terry Farrell, Michael Ironside, Mako
1993 / 99 min / 1.85:1 / English Stereo

Additional info:

  • Region Free Blu-ray
  • Newly scanned & restored in 4K from its 35mm original camera negative
  • "The Dragon Rises" - a brand new interview with actor Don "The Dragon" Wilson
  • "Red Sun Reflections" - a brand new interview with first assistant director Erica Fox
  • "Producer Fu" - a brand new interview with producer Paul Maslak
  • "Newby's Way" - a brand new interview with cinematographer John Newby
  • "Master of the Flying Edit" - a brand new interview with editor John Weidner
  • Archival interview with director Francis Megahy
  • Archival interview with actor Don "The Dragon" Wilson
  • Archival interview with producer Paul Maslak
  • Archival interview with actor James Lew
  • Archival interview with writer Neva Friedenn
  • Archival interview with actor Ewart Chin
  • Archival interview with actor / fight choreographer Art Camacho
  • Original video trailer
  • Reversible cover artwork
  • English SDH subtitles

Screenshot_20220901-143508~2.png

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With that cover, that Iceman blu just screams get me. 

Gotta admit I haven't seen that many films with "The Dragon", is Red Sun Rising a must-see/have?

 

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Dekanalog, another VS partner label is putting out the Vietnamese film, KFC on blu ray. I borrowed a friend's Spectrum Films blu ray copy (one of the few Spectrum releases to have English subs) & it's a bizarre mix of exploitation horror & social satire. I got the impression the director is a fan of early 2000s era Miike & Harmony Korine.

https://vinegarsyndrome.com/products/kfc-dekanalog?variant=40369063952426

Screenshot_2022-09-05 KFC.jpg

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1 hour ago, Yihetuan said:

(one of the few Spectrum releases to have English subs)

What other Spectrum releases have English subs?

I completely discarded the label on account of their non-English friendly releases, wasn't aware some of them were subbed.

 

 

Edited by Super Ninja
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7 hours ago, Super Ninja said:

What other Spectrum releases have English subs?

I completely discarded the label on account of their non-English friendly releases, wasn't aware some of them were subbed.

 

 

I know the Khavn 5 film blu ray box set has English subs. & I think there was one more but can't recall off the top of my head?

DmcMFCTXgAAYPGi.jpg

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On 9/6/2022 at 5:30 PM, Yihetuan said:

I know the Khavn 5 film blu ray box set has English subs. & I think there was one more but can't recall off the top of my head?

DmcMFCTXgAAYPGi.jpg

My hope was that some of their MA oriented releases would be amongst the English subbed ones.. too bad.

Thanks for the info.

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21 minutes ago, ShawAngela said:

Here is the page of the English  subbed products on Spectrum site.

https://www.spectrumfilms.fr/recherche?controller=search&s=sous-titres+anglais

That's strange that I can't see the above one you mentioned.

Funny, if there are exceptions to the no-English-subs policy, why then aren't their SB releases subbed? Or A Hero Never Dies?

Copyrights? Expenses? 

As long as 88, Eureka, Arrow, VS or perhaps Shout can secure a release of their own, I don't really mind Spectrum insisting on non English friendly releases. I just think both the label and the fans would profit from it. I must be honest though and admit I can't really afford everything I want as it is, there are just so many great releases and rereleases right now, so I'm in no position to complain. 

For instance, Drive from MVD was on my wishlist and I just never got around to ordering it, I was really glad to see 88 decided to release it as well, I'm picking that one up soon.

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1 hour ago, Super Ninja said:

Funny, if there are exceptions to the no-English-subs policy, why then aren't their SB releases subbed? Or A Hero Never Dies?

Copyrights? Expenses? 

As long as 88, Eureka, Arrow, VS or perhaps Shout can secure a release of their own, I don't really mind Spectrum insisting on non English friendly releases. I just think both the label and the fans would profit from it. I must be honest though and admit I can't really afford everything I want as it is, there are just so many great releases and rereleases right now, so I'm in no position to complain. 

For instance, Drive from MVD was on my wishlist and I just never got around to ordering it, I was really glad to see 88 decided to release it as well, I'm picking that one up soon.

It seems to me that Spectrum told me on facebook that they didn't have the rights for the English subtitles. And what annoys me is that they release their Shaws only in Cantonese language, and when I asked why thye didn't use the Mandarin languages, since almost all of hte IVL releases are in Mandarin, they told me that the movies were originally in Cantonese, if I remember well... 

I received Hero today, with some lobby cards that weren't mentioned in the description of the item... :happy

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Did anyone compare what the bonuses are between the Vinegar and the 88 releases of Iceman Cometh ?

I confess that I haven't much time to do it since I returned at work, and I wonder whihc one is the best in terms of the said bonuses.

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On 9/7/2022 at 11:43 AM, ShawAngela said:

Here is the page of the English  subbed products on Spectrum site.

https://www.spectrumfilms.fr/recherche?controller=search&s=sous-titres+anglais

That's strange that I can't see the above one you mentioned.

It appears that Khavn box set is no longer in print & it's been removed from Spectrum's web shop. Glad I picked it up when I did because it's worth it for Mondomanilla alone.

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