Cradle 2 the Grave (2003)

[Guest jirpy100]

Saw this on tv last weekend and thought it was quite okay as a b-movie/mindless action type of thing. I didn't know Corey Yuen did the choreography though... I quite liked Jet's tough guy acts he pulls these days and I think the rapper did okay too. Some nice action scenes in here, but not something I'd buy or pay to see. Plenty of action though and much better than Romeo Must Die. Exit Wounds was a slightly better film I think, but Cradle had better and more MA action.

PS. Can't wait for Undisputed 2's dvd!!!! While we're on the topic of b-movie's, I think Isaac Florentine is the best action director working in USA today, who's not in the Hollywood system yet.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

personally i'd take Romeo must Die over this...most of the action was pretty subpar (by US Yuen Kwai standards i suppose), and the best action scene in the movie, they kept intercutting with DMX's 4-wheeler chase scene. i thought romeo must die had more creativity/style in the action scenes, plus Aaliyah is lovely to watch. the finale with Russell Wong was more entertaining than the finale with Mark Dacascos personally...even tho they did that ring of fire setup 2x. as mindless actioners, neither film is THAT bad, its only bad if u watch it and compare it to HK films. entertaining, but not great by any means.

neither film is worth buying unless u see it for like a buck or 2 in a bargain bin. and thats assuming ur a Jet Li fan.

i saw a fightscene of undisputed 2 on youtube, looked ace.

[Guest The Running Man]

Exit Wounds was a slightly better film I think, but Cradle had better and more MA action.

Exit Wounds was overall better because Segal was making fun of his image a bit in it and Anthony Anderson and Tom Arnold got more scenes to play around with.

PS. Can't wait for Undisputed 2's dvd!!!! While we're on the topic of b-movie's, I think Isaac Florentine is the best action director working in USA today, who's not in the Hollywood system yet.

If he ever does get into the Hollywood system, it will be the end of his creativity and his best work. A large part of why he is so good at action direction is aided by the fact that he is not bogged by the politics that plague Hollywood. This includes ay interference from stiff nosed US action coordinators.

One thing though that Isaac really annoys me with however is that he does exactly what I didn't like about Cradle 2 Grave's last action scene. Isaac LOVES to inter cut one fight back and forth with something else going on that is never as interesting as the main fight. Thus, his action scenes will last about a minute or two and then, after building quite a good amount of steam, he cuts to something else and then cuts back to the main fight.

Isaac needs to take a page out of Sammo's perfect action school and know how to properly do this. Sammo would have fight scenes inter cut with other things going on, but he always did it at the points when the fights were not "on fire". He would do them around the start of a fight just to establish the scene. Then after those things have been laid out, he then lets each scene play out individually.

As far as Undisputed 2 goes, I think that while it's certainly a good flick, it's inferior to Special Forces (his best movie and the best action movie that year) in my opinion. Towards the end of Undisputed 2 it tries to insert a subplot that somehow becomes the main plot and it just comes across as cheesy (Scott Adkins starts to become less important towards the end). Also, the fight scenes not only suffer from what I described above, but also he used some camera tricks with the speed on certain action shots that I didn't feel was necessary and just detracted.

I heard that Isaac is going to direct Wesley Snipes next film which I only hope great things. I've always felt that Wesley Snipes had potential to keep up with the high demands of HK-style action film (THE style of action film making) and if this project sees itself through them we might have a future action gem in our hands and probably Snipes best film ever.

[Guest Chen Zhen]

speaking of wesley snipes, running man, have u seen Detonator with wesley? another DTV film, and theres very little MA in it (mostly gun fights), but that movie was pretty good...saw it for the first time a few weeks ago.

[Guest jirpy100]

"Exit Wounds was overall better because Segal was making fun of his image a bit in it and Anthony Anderson and Tom Arnold got more scenes to play around with."

I like them too.

"One thing though that Isaac really annoys me with however is that he does exactly what I didn't like about Cradle 2 Grave's last action scene. Isaac LOVES to inter cut one fight back and forth with something else going on that is never as interesting as the main fight. Thus, his action scenes will last about a minute or two and then, after building quite a good amount of steam, he cuts to something else and then cuts back to the main fight."

Navy Seals 2 had its issues too, but ultimately Andy did such a great job on the choreography that any mistakes are permissable. The whole yard fight was amazing! A real stand-out piece, shame about the foley effect - very irritating!

"As far as Undisputed 2 goes, I think that while it's certainly a good flick, it's inferior to Special Forces (his best movie and the best action movie that year) in my opinion. Towards the end of Undisputed 2 it tries to insert a subplot that somehow becomes the main plot and it just comes across as cheesy (Scott Adkins starts to become less important towards the end). Also, the fight scenes not only suffer from what I described above, but also he used some camera tricks with the speed on certain action shots that I didn't feel was necessary and just detracted."

The end fight in Special Forces was obviously influenced by the warehouse fight in OUATIC, and they did a great job with it. Both fighters were HK-class athletes. Not a great film all-around, but worth watching for Adkins alone... shame he was underused in Danny the Dog.

"I heard that Isaac is going to direct Wesley Snipes next film which I only hope great things. I've always felt that Wesley Snipes had potential to keep up with the high demands of HK-style action film (THE style of action film making) and if this project sees itself through them we might have a future action gem in our hands and probably Snipes best film ever."

Ah, I will watch out for that one, thanks!

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

the thing I hated about films like Romeo Must Die, Exit Wounds, etc. is the damn wirework. It just killed the fight scenes for me and took anything that was near to realism out of it. I like the wirework and cgi in superhero type movies like Spiderman and X Men, but not in my martial arts movies! I want to see the real skills of the martial artist and what they can do because it makes the fight scenes alot more believable in my book. Thats why I prefer Jet in movies like Kiss of The Dragon and Danny the Dog(where the wirework was used in some scenes but kept to a minimum) and Steven Seagal in films like Above the Law, Out for Justice, and Under Siege.

[Guest Liu chung liang]

i would take the grave over romeo. that scene where jet takes on the UFC fighters does it for me.

[Guest jfinesse2000]

Well, with Snipes' recent legal troubles (he has a warrant for his arrest and authorities are witing for him to turn himself in on tax fraud. He is facing 16 years in the big house) we may never see this...

[Guest jirpy100]

Plus, he may not enter my country, South Africa, because he entered it with a false passport about a year ago I believe. Weird, what is he doing?

[Guest limubai2000]

On Wesley,

I think he fell of the martial artist thing when he picked up for pot possession a few times. That was beginning of the downward spiral me thinks. Too bad.

On Cradle,

I liked it for mindless entertainment, I prefer Romeo over it though out of Jet's US efforts.

[Guest jfinesse2000]

Actually, jirpy, I read in the paper yesterday that his manager says he IS in South Africa shooting a movie.

[Guest jirpy100]

I think he's in South-West Africa (Namibia), and that he may not cross the border as he's been labelled an "undesirable person" by South African authoraties.

Article on his new film

[DarthKato]

It was pretty good. A standard late 90s, early 2000s MA film(Which I happen to enjoy). The acting and characters were fine. Though I feel like Jet Li wasn't really given all that much to do. He would basically just show up to fight and that was it, so if you are in this for him you might be a little disappointed. DMX was the actual star, and he actually did a pretty okay job. We get some pretty good fights: The big fight at the Underground Fight Club thing was probably the highlight of the movie for me. But DMX's fight in the office at the Club was nicely brutal and fun to watch. The story itself was fine. Nothing ground breaking, but it got the job done. So yeah, it was okay movie that I'll give a 4/5. Not the best MA movie ever, but I was entertained. Check it out. 

[CaldoTheKid]

Been quite a number of years since I saw but enjoyed it back in the day.

[DiP]

The movie was pretty much trash-talked for all the years that went by after its' initial release back in the day. However, if you look at it and take away some things, such as Anthony Anderson and Tom Arnold being the comic reliefs of the movie, then it's actually not a bad action movie story. It had potential to surpass Romeo Must Die.

[Cheer You On]

I've not seen it since it first came out but I remember being disappointed when I saw Jet finally fight Mark Dacascos.

[Karlos]

This was a brief little era that I feel very nostalgic about.

This, Romeo Must Die, The One and Exit Wounds.

Looking back they almost feel like their own little genre.

Need to revisit these.

[anderson]

The brazillian  tv channel  SBT exhibited this film hundreds of times with the name "Jet Li Contra o Tempo(Jet Li Against the Time)  with words as "Nervous jet Li! Furious Jet Li"!" and nothing of DMX.