The Criterion Collection Blu-ray Thread

[nahnahnah]

Again, I don't think the theory that you are presenting is correct at all, as rights issues have popped up for alternate versions. For example, IG has stated in the past that the Japanese cut for Police Story is likely not even owned by Fortune Star, which is why FS forbid Criterion from even adding it to their release. Another example is the release of a French film called Betty Blue, which only contains the Director's Cut because the Theatrical version was already released by another label. It's also not fair to say that the HK releases are half-hearted (except for Last Hurrah for Chivalry) when this is the same company that tried to add Jet Li's Fist of Legend to their Bruce Lee boxset, as well as attempting to add Wong Jing's LAST HERO IN CHINA and some episodes from the OUATIC TV show for the OUATIC boxset.

[RedMenace]

Maybe that was harsh of me. I’m just generally underwhelmed with their handling of alternate and dubbed versions of films for which those versions have been pretty essential in popularizing them globally — whereas most of the labels releasing these films seem to consider them more or less essential, including some releasing them in the US, Criterion strikes me as having a rather particular idea of which versions are really important, and regarding others as a distinctly secondary priority. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the impression that I get.

[Rando1975]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:02 PM, nahnahnah said:

 

Definitely getting this! I've got a couple of them on Hong Kong blu-rays and some on shabby dvds.

[Rando1975]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:28 PM, Chemical Lemon said:

I think the logic of this collection is “these are the Jackie Chan movies that were left for us to license”. 

One person on YouTube said it was something like "Jackie Chan's scraps/leftovers" LOL.

[De Ming Li]

Well at the very least with this set we're getting some new Frank Djeng commentaries

[Takuma]

On 8/16/2023 at 3:28 AM, Chemical Lemon said:

I think the logic of this collection is “these are the Jackie Chan movies that were left for us to license”.

As odd as it may sound, I think it's somewhat the opposite. I'm certain Shout would have licensed My Lucky Stars (they have parts 2&3 in the series) and The Young Master (a big Jackie classic) had they been available. Criterion must have had them already before Shout started licensing Jackie films.

I don't know what's the truth, but I can only assume these titles came in some old package deal and weren't necessarily even intended to be released. Criterion is notorious for having (and having had) hundreds of films that they never release (though nowadays they at least dump them to their streaming channel). They go for prestige titles, but those titles are often sold in packages which come with additional titles that Criterion never ends up releasing. Japanese film fans have been angry at them for decades because they are sitting on tons of cool titles (e.g. they have a whole load of Hideo Gosha films which probably came with Three Outlaw Samurai, the only Gosha title they were actually interested in putting on disc).

[nahnahnah]

I emailed Criterion about the missing cuts yesterday and asked if they were missing due to rights issues and I received this response today:

Quote

I can confirm that we were not able to include alternate cuts of MY LUCKY STARS and THE YOUNG MASTER in our upcoming JACKIE CHAN: EMERGENCE OF A SUPERSTAR set due to licensing.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by nahnahnah

[bickle14]

15 hours ago, Takuma said:

As odd as it may sound, I think it's somewhat the opposite. I'm certain Shout would have licensed My Lucky Stars (they have parts 2&3 in the series) and The Young Master (a big Jackie classic) had they been available. Criterion must have had them already before Shout started licensing Jackie films.

I don't know what's the truth, but I can only assume these titles came in some old package deal and weren't necessarily even intended to be released. Criterion is notorious for having (and having had) hundreds of films that they never release (though nowadays they at least dump them to their streaming channel). They go for prestige titles, but those titles are often sold in packages which come with additional titles that Criterion never ends up releasing. Japanese film fans have been angry at them for decades because they are sitting on tons of cool titles (e.g. they have a whole load of Hideo Gosha films which probably came with Three Outlaw Samurai, the only Gosha title they were actually interested in putting on disc).

Yes, Janus / Criterion has had the rights to these for a while... well before Shout got theirs.

The difference is... Criterion sat on them for years before putting them to disc. They now see how well these titles are selling and what other labels have done with the HK stuff and they are playing catch up.

I have to wonder if this was even a planned release for this year or if it was only done after Shout released their collections.

The release of Heroic Trio and Executioners or Eastern Condors was probably shuffled on the schedule when opting to go with this collection... I hope they don't wait much longer on those.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by bickle14

[RedMenace]

I appreciate you getting some kind of a statement from them -- thank you for that!

I would point out that the phrasing there doesn't rule out the possibility that they would have had to license the alternate cuts in addition to these, and decided not to. Given the long delay between these films' streaming debut and this Blu-ray release (without an obvious circumstantial explanation like waiting for more films to become available, like with the Godzilla set), I think it's plausible that they might have initially licensed one version each for streaming and only decided later to put them on disc, and at that point elected to just proceed with what they already had rather than spending more on licensing.

Arrow and Shout Factory have pretty consistently been able to include the same versions of the films they've released in the US as are present on the UK discs (if not more, as with the Dragon Lord hybrid cut). If there really is something preventing the licensing of the alternate cuts for the US, be it Fortune Star not playing ball or something else, it's interesting that it only seems to affect Criterion and/or the specific films Criterion licensed.

One thing I should add -- I don't rule out the possibility that there are really passionate people within Criterion working on these releases who would like to include all that stuff and are pushing to do so, but not getting allotted the resources needed to do so. I don't think the problem, whether it's apathy or tight-fistedness, is necessarily uniform throughout Criterion, but looking at their product next to other labels', I do think the problem is with Criterion.

Edited August 17, 2023 by RedMenace

[nahnahnah]

Once again, I think you're reading too much into a innocuous statement and have created an alternative narrative that is too convoluted and doesn't make much sense to be frank.

[RedMenace]

Long-winded, sure, but I don't think it's that convoluted. Only Criterion seems to be having such problems bringing the same alternate cuts included on the UK discs to the US. Either Fortune Star is playing hardball with them in particular for some reason, or Criterion is very unlucky and picked films whose rights situations are more complicated than any of Shout's or Arrow's titles, or they just haven't bothered spending more to license additional cuts because they know people will buy this anyway. Their statement doesn't contradict any of these possibilities.

[KUNG FU BOB]

1 hour ago, RedMenace said:

I appreciate you getting some kind of a statement from them -- thank you for that!

I would point out that the phrasing there doesn't rule out the possibility that they would have had to license the alternate cuts in addition to these, and decided not to. Given the long delay between these films' streaming debut and this Blu-ray release (without an obvious circumstantial explanation like waiting for more films to become available, like with the Godzilla set), I think it's plausible that they might have initially licensed one version each for streaming and only decided later to put them on disc, and at that point elected to just proceed with what they already had rather than spending more on licensing.

Arrow and Shout Factory have pretty consistently been able to include the same versions of the films they've released in the US as are present on the UK discs (if not more, as with the Dragon Lord hybrid cut). If there really is something preventing the licensing of the alternate cuts for the US, be it Fortune Star not playing ball or something else, it's interesting that it only seems to affect Criterion and/or the specific films Criterion licensed.

One thing I should add -- I don't rule out the possibility that there are really passionate people within Criterion working on these releases who would like to include all that stuff and are pushing to do so, but not getting allotted the resources needed to do so. I don't think the problem, whether it's apathy or tight-fistedness, is necessarily uniform throughout Criterion, but looking at their product next to other labels', I do think the problem is with Criterion.

 

1 hour ago, nahnahnah said:

Once again, I think you're reading too much into a innocuous statement and have created an alternative narrative that is too convoluted and doesn't make much sense to be frank.

 

1 hour ago, RedMenace said:

Long-winded, sure, but I don't think it's that convoluted. Only Criterion seems to be having such problems bringing the same alternate cuts included on the UK discs to the US. Either Fortune Star is playing hardball with them in particular for some reason, or Criterion is very unlucky and picked films whose rights situations are more complicated than any of Shout's or Arrow's titles, or they just haven't bothered spending more to license additional cuts because they know people will buy this anyway. Their statement doesn't contradict any of these possibilities.

@nahnahnah though I have NO knowledge about this Criterion release, I do know more than a bit about how these companies have to deal with licensing, and everything that @RedMenace said makes perfect sense. Once I started working for distributors I found out how much more complicated releasing a film is than I had ever realized. Though I haven't worked for Criterion (yet) I know/have known some people that do/did and they are/were very passionate about the genre stuff. So I doubt it's simply an "I don't care" attitude by everyone. at the company. But sometimes the staff assigned to produce certain releases has their hands tied by financial limits set by the people deciding how many units they think they'll sell of a title. For instance (and this example is NOT about Criterion, but ties into this conversation), I did some work for a company and the producer of a set was as passionate about the films as any of us (a lifelong, hardcore fan), and many of his (and some of mine) ideas were shot down because it was beyond the meager budget they'd allotted and was something the money bosses had little faith in being a big seller. The producer, his crew, and many volunteers from the fan community worked literally until the second they had to send everything to be pressed to ake it a fantastic set. But it could've been even better...

[JCFan2024]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:02 AM, nahnahnah said:

 

• 2K digital restorations of Spiritual Kung Fu, The Fearless Hyena, Fearless Hyena II, The Young Master, and My Lucky Stars and high-definition digital restoration of Half a Loaf of Kung Fu, with uncompressed monaural soundtracks
• Alternate stereo and 5.1 surround Cantonese soundtracks
• Classic English-dubbed tracks for Half a Loaf of Kung Fu, Spiritual Kung Fu, The Fearless Hyena, and Fearless Hyena II, plus an English-dubbed alternate track for Fearless Hyena II, and contemporary English-dubbed tracks for The Young Master and My Lucky Stars
• New audio commentaries for The Fearless Hyena and The Young Master featuring Hong Kong cinema expert and producer Frank Djeng (Enter the Clones of Bruce)
• Interview with author Grady Hendrix (These Fists Break Bricks) about actor-director Jackie Chan
• Archival interviews with Chan, actor-director Sammo Hung, actors Michiko Nishiwaki and Hwang In-shik, and more
• The Young Master promo reel from the 1980 Cannes Film Festival and deleted scenes from the film
• Interview from 2005 with Hong Kong cinema critic Paul Fonoroff about producer-director Lo Wei
• NG shots from The Young Master and My Lucky Stars
• Trailers
• New English subtitle translations
• PLUS: An essay by critic Alex Pappademas

I'm only getting it for the Frank Djeng commentary and the artwork.

 

Can people please stop calling My Lucky Stars a Jackie Cham movie. I like the movie but the damn, the rights issues to JC flims are messed up here i'd figured they would'ev had the rights to all three Lucky Stars flims but.... always have to keep one apart from the other like that family member. 

 

By the way still waiting for Heroic Trio. Where is that???

 

[nahnahnah]

1 hour ago, KUNG FU BOB said:

 

 

@nahnahnah though I have NO knowledge about this Criterion release, I do know more than a bit about how these companies have to deal with licensing, and everything that @RedMenace said makes perfect sense. Once I started working for distributors I found out how much more complicated releasing a film is than I had ever realized. Though I haven't worked for Criterion (yet) I know/have known some people that do/did and they are/were very passionate about the genre stuff. So I doubt it's simply an "I don't care" attitude by everyone. at the company. But sometimes the staff assigned to produce certain releases has their hands tied by financial limits set by the people deciding how many units they think they'll sell of a title. For instance (and this example is NOT about Criterion, but ties into this conversation), I did some work for a company and the producer of a set was as passionate about the films as any of us (a lifelong, hardcore fan), and many of his (and some of mine) ideas were shot down because it was beyond the meager budget they'd allotted and was something the money bosses had little faith in being a big seller. The producer, his crew, and many volunteers from the fan community worked literally until the second they had to send everything to be pressed to ake it a fantastic set. But it could've been even better...

Oh, I'm well aware of the possibility about there being limited funds for a release and how every release will have differing budgets, and we all know that Criterion have been having financial difficulties in the past year with 20% of their staff being laid-off and there not being as many special features on their releases from the past year. I'm not saying that they are wrong, it's just that I took more "offence" (not the correct word that I'm trying to use here but can't think of a better word to replace it with) to the theories being extracted out of one sentence. It also doesn't help that their comments have a noticeable "every other label good, Criterion-lazy" vibe to them (especially with the "half-hearted" comments), especially when we don't know the circumstances behind every release that any label does. I guess I'm just tired of the brand-warfareness that seems to be really popular within the home video community and wish people would adopt a more positive mindset, especially at a time when home video isn't as popular as it once was and labels are starting to shut down.

Anyways, I doubt I will be buying this particular set, as I already own the individual releases for the titles that I want, but I'm grateful that this set exists for the people who aren't region-free, and while it may be a bit of a let-down to not get alternative cuts, this is still a very good release. As for you Mr. Bob, I hope that Criterion will hire you to do a cover, especially if it's for Eastern Condors.

Edited August 18, 2023 by nahnahnah

[nahnahnah]

Coming to the Criterion Channel next month:

 

 

[nahnahnah]

On 8/21/2023 at 1:41 PM, nahnahnah said:

Coming to the Criterion Channel next month:

 

 

This is now up on the Channel. Encouters and Mr. Vampire 1-3 open with the Criterion/Janus logos, while Mr. Vampire 4 does not. Curious if someone else has the rights to that one.

[Darth Kermit]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:55 AM, nahnahnah said:

This is now up on the Channel. Encouters and Mr. Vampire 1-3 open with the Criterion/Janus logos, while Mr. Vampire 4 does not. Curious if someone else has the rights to that one.

If ever Criterion releases Encounters, here's hoping they can wiggle the second one from Warner. They did it with the Bruce Lee box and Once Upon a Time in China, so I really hope they can get Encounters II if ever they release them.

[JCFan2024]

1 hour ago, Darth Kermit said:

If ever Criterion releases Encounters, here's hoping they can wiggle the second one from Warner. They did it with the Bruce Lee box and Once Upon a Time in China, so I really hope they can get Encounters II if ever they release them.

If they don't, well.... maybe Dai Goh Dai should go have a word with Warners.

 

[nahnahnah]

1 hour ago, Darth Kermit said:

If ever Criterion releases Encounters, here's hoping they can wiggle the second one from Warner. They did it with the Bruce Lee box and Once Upon a Time in China, so I really hope they can get Encounters II if ever they release them.

Hopefully WB are more looser with the GH titles they own since they were giving Criterion a hard time with licensing OUATIC IV and V to them. No idea why they would have wanted to hold on to those titles since they never had the rights to the other films and haven't really done anything with the other GH films that they own. If Criterion are able to license the second Encounters film, then I hope they are able to also license Mr. Vampire 1992 from them and release a big "Hopping Vampires" boxset that includes all of the Encounters and Mr. Vampire films

[nahnahnah]

 

Riki-Oh coming to the Criterion Channel next month!

[nahnahnah]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:25 PM, nahnahnah said:

 

Riki-Oh coming to the Criterion Channel next month!

This opens with the Criterion and Janus logo. The master looks to be the same one used for the 88 release. 

[Killer Meteor]

Has anyone got the new Jackie Chan box? Curious to know if they fixed the missing day-for-night filter issue on SPIRITUAL KUNG FU.

[Knetan]

If we presume the Criterion Channel stream is the same (and that it's still there), give me a time stamp and I'll check.

[Killer Meteor]

4 hours ago, Knetan said:

If we presume the Criterion Channel stream is the same (and that it's still there), give me a time stamp and I'll check.

 

https://archive.org/details/spiritual.-kung.-fu.-1978.-dubbed.-1080p.-blu-ray.-h-264.-aac-rarbg

On this version, it's 07:43. This version has the filter n place, but it was missing on the 88 Films release.

[Knetan]

39 minutes ago, Killer Meteor said:

 

https://archive.org/details/spiritual.-kung.-fu.-1978.-dubbed.-1080p.-blu-ray.-h-264.-aac-rarbg

On this version, it's 07:43. This version has the filter n place, but it was missing on the 88 Films release.

The Criterion Channel streaming version is pretty much black in that shot. The surrounding temple structure reads as black, you see the courtyard. The archive stream was brighter in comparison, more blue/purple.