Standing up for the Venoms

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Since “Venom bashing” seems to be the new hot take, I’m gonna stand up for the guys here to provide a rebutting perspective. I like the Venom films for what they are, and as with all movies I watch, I take them on a case by case basis. People are free to dislike them for whatever reason, but lumping them all together is lazy and convenient. So here are my short thoughts on their biggest titles.

 

FIVE VENOMS: My favorite effort from them, as it goes against the grain and is very nostalgic for me personally. You would think that when Chang Cheh brings together a troupe of players, mostly Taiwanese opera guys, that their debut vehicle would be a full on acrobat action bonanza, but it’s not. It’s a gloomy, gothic and claustrophobic whodunit, closer to a Hammer horror film than a Kung Fu fight fest. A somewhat intricate plot packed with sleuthing, torture and masked mystery set to unnerving musical stings and with iconic imagery like the Venom dungeon opening scene and the tortuous trials of the Toad, just to name a few. Add to that the innovative action design by Leung Ting and Robert Tai, putting a fresh twist on the animal styles formula with variations on arachnids, amphibians, reptiles and other creepy crawlies and doling it out just right. This, to me, is an absolute genre classic that I have watched countless times over the last 25 years and will continue to do so.

 

CRIPPLED AVENGERS: Another high concept picture with the team, playing around with character dynamics and a positive, if slightly quaint, message of overcoming adversity through disability. Way more room for them to show off their hard earned opera skills here. Though it does spill over into overly choreographed routines at times, but is ultimately saved by the overall entertainment value. Great cast, sweet and simple narrative, fun character types, fun fights, gaudy costumes and cool training scenes…. that admittedly run a little long. All in all an easy watch for me, especially when you throw in gimmicks like the iron arms that shoot darts and Lo Meng’s mirror outfit. Good stuff.

 

INVINCIBLE SHAOLIN: No more animal or handicap gimmicks, but a very pure, stripped-down and straightforward ode to actual Kung Fu styles, to Shaolin and to hard, rigorous workouts. This is essentially the 36th Chamber of the Venoms as the training scenes takes up a considerable bulk of the running time and the film is all the better for it. One of their most down-to-earth efforts and with all of them playing good guys, played out against each other by the always evil Wang Lung Wei. Also played relatively light with a certain feel-good vibe to it… until they start cracking open each other’s sternums and stuff like that. Great action with a lot of variety and weapons and just another classic in my book.

 

THE KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARMS: No kid and no golden arms, but a lot of crazy and colorful, comic book type characters, cutthroat choreo and camp factor to the max. There is no deeper meaning or hidden message here, this is pure, escapist  popcorn entertainment, and that’s ok. Poison traps, flashy costumes, fighters with cool names and just flamboyant fun all around in a mix of Five Venoms and Have Sword, Will Travel. Yes, the direction feels a bit stagey and the sets, for some reason, looks even faker than usual, but the tongue-in-cheek approach and abundance of enjoyable action makes it another hit for me.

 

TEN TIGERS FROM KWANTUNG: This is a bit of a cobbled-together mess that feels a tad rudderless at times, but on the whole saves face with a solid star roster, a story steeped in Kung Fu lore and some great action. Though not a huge fave and not a Venom joint in the strictest sense, as they are part of a larger group of players counting Ti Lung and Fu Sheng. But still, it has all six originals (I usually don’t count Wai Pak, but let’s include him here) on deck, and they all get to show off.

 

MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS: Starts out real solid and with a certain sadness as the Venom characters here are men out of time, martial arts performers that is no longer needed in “modern” society nor are their skills, and thus forced into poverty and destitution, also mirrored in the main villain. This is a strong framework that sadly takes some ill-fitting detours into ghost gags, unfunny comedic beats and the guys sometimes acting like a bunch of 12 year olds. But with some superb action serving up hand-to-hand, kicking feats and a variety of weapons, the film overcomes its flaws and becomes another highly enjoyable Venoms outing that rises above its somewhat wasted potential.

 

SHAOLIN RESCUERS: Few were exempt from jumping on the Kung Fu comedy bandwagon, and this was arguably as close as the Venoms came. Chang Cheh had already dabbled in levity earlier on, and not to great effect. And while it’s not exactly knee-slapping material we get here, it is fairly harmless and not impeding on the awesome action on display, perhaps some of the team’s tightest choreo ever. Story and character-wise this is just retreading the same old Shaolin fugitive lore that Chang had already covered in numerous movies, so the cast chemistry and fight scenes, of which there are plenty, are really the only reasons to watch this. Not one I revisit that often.

 

THE DAREDEVILS: A tailormade tapestry on which to hang the Venom’s acrobatic opera skills, as they play lowly street performers swept up in a republic era gun running plot. This one has a different setting and vibe to it and is no doubt a solid showcase for the boys as they get to do exactly what they were trained to do. Sadly the film drags on more than one occasion and the story and characters aren’t really that interesting. But the action is tight and their agility is truly impressive. Though not high on rewatchability for me.

 

REBEL INTRUDERS: The boys are at it again in another enjoyable effort, with five of the six guys on deck and dishing out everything they are known for, while dodging dangers in the cramp corners and ample alleyways of the Shaw Bros. stages. Thick with plot? No. Heavy on action? Yes. Think the Venoms version of Walter Hill’s “The Warriors”... sort of. At least that’s what my mind drifts to as the characters are trapped in the confines of the city, having to navigate through the perilous streets at night, ducking brutal militia groups with cool sounding names. Super solid fights and an underlying lament on the plight of refugees takes it up another notch. This one ranks high for me.

 

FLAG OF IRON: I am, admittedly, not a big fan of this Venoms remake of Chang’s own The Duel. It has none of the emotional weight and taut drama of the original and just feels like a rushed Venoms re-skin with a bunch of color coordinated dudes waving big flags around and talking…. a lot. Might need to revisit this for a more fair and fresh verdict, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

 

TWO CHAMPIONS OF SHAOLIN: Aka the one without Kwok Choi as he was pissed and walked off the set… and his absence is surely felt. For some reason, this one always puts me to sleep, and I don’t know why. Maybe it’s the lack of Choi as he is the main guy for me, but otherwise this one has it all… on paper. Solid action, flying boomerang knives, paralyzing needles, special magnets, milky brain smashings and ball rippings, weird monkey servants, family drama and so much more, and yet I invariably still doze off… go figure.

 

MASKED AVENGERS: Tridents, tridents… lots of tridents. And masked killer cultists, guys impaled on giant spinning Buddha statues, walls that spray acid and just general debauchery and derring-do with some of the sickest weapons work of the era. The story and characters doesn’t grab me that much, but the visuals, outrageous elements and the action is what makes this one such an enjoyable romp. This was near the end and it does have a certain end-of-an-era vibe to it, or maybe that’s just me reading that into it with the luxury of hindsight, but another classic V-Boys joint for sure.

 

I also enjoy Legend of the Fox, Sword Stained with Royal Blood, Ode to Gallantry and House of Traps each to their own extent. But this is it for now. And just know, I’m not knocking anyone who doesn’t like the Venoms or these films, just thought I would speak my mind on the subject.

Edited July 21, 2020 by TibetanWhiteCrane

[Iron_Leopard]

Great rundown!

"Masked Avengers" is my favorite. And I too always think of "Have Sword Will Travel" when I watch "Kid With the Golden Arm".

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

2 minutes ago, Iron_Leopard said:

Great rundown!

"Masked Avengers" is my favorite. And I too always think of "Have Sword Will Travel" when I watch "Kid With the Golden Arm".

Thanks, and yeah.... I would call TKWTGA a "light" remake, or at least a reworking.

[Iron_Leopard]

17 minutes ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Thanks, and yeah.... I would call TKWTGA a "light" remake, or at least a reworking.

I cant remember their names but the Swordsman and his girl are even dressed in the same colors as Ti Lung and Li Ching in HSWT.

So is it true though that the box office was down with the Venom films? Or was it just all of Shaws films at that point?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

1 minute ago, Iron_Leopard said:

I cant remember their names but the Swordsman and his girl are even dressed in the same colors as Ti Lung and Li Ching in HSWT.

So is it true though that the box office was down with the Venom films? Or was it just all of Shaws films at that point?

It was Shaws overall, but the Venoms in particular were not exactly popular with the HK movie audiences. The fact that those films even have a legacy to speak of is no doubt down to fan appreciation in the west.

[paimeifist]

Solid write up.

 

The Venoms are great, if not “art.” I hope my comment in the other thread didnt make anyone think I dislike the Venoms, actually, I love em.

 

I love Magnificent Ruffians, Flag of Iron, Shaolin Rescuers and Kid with The Golden arm especially. I at least like most of their films quite a bit.

 

I think Ruffians is their “best” movie, and it’s also probably my favorite...one of the greatest finales of any fu film. Flag of Iron has a fun story and characters. 

Rescuers is a decent slapstick effort, and the action is among the very best.

I like KWTGA for all the reasons you mentioned. Probably my favorite character of Kwok Chois. 
 

Sounds like I need to check out Have Sword, Will Travel.
 

Some “different opinions” I have on Venoms movies:

I have never cared much for Crippled Avengers and Masked Avengers, which most seem to really love. They’re pretty good, but never been among my favorites. Maybe due for a rewatch of those.

 

I seem to have enjoyed Two Champions of Shaolin more than most. Sun Chien really gets to shine in that one.

Edited July 21, 2020 by paimeifist

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

2 minutes ago, paimeifist said:

I like KWTGA for all the reasons you mentioned. Probably my favorite character of Kwok Chois. 
 

Mine too.... drunken agent Hai To is downright lovable.

[teako170]

As others have said, a nice concise write-up. I’ve always loved the original film as well though others feel it lacks the fu. Overall, I think I prefer their earlier projects when Lo Mang was onboard. I would like to break these all out in the near future and watch them in order as it’s been several years now. 

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

26 minutes ago, teako170 said:

As others have said, a nice concise write-up. I’ve always loved the original film as well though others feel it lacks the fu.

Thanks, and yes, the original is still my number one, despite an economic approach to fight scenes. But for me, the other components are so strong that it all comes together just right. I'm not one that needs constant action, even in Kung Fu flicks. If you can balance out story, characters and action in a mindful and measured way then I prefer that to non-stop bashings a'la Secret Rivals 2 or something.

[ShawAngela]

Great thread, thanks !

I love all of their movies, and frankly, I don' t understand either why some people seem to despise the Venoms' movies, they are such inventive in their choreographies and the fights are so powerful !

And I agree that The Venoms without  Kuo Chue, it's a little bit strange...😀

[sym8]

Great thread,for me there movies are entertaining,great choreography but you need highly skilled performers to pull off this kind of action and with the Venoms you get that.All very skilled practitioners and I wish we had people like this performing in today’s movies.👍👍

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

1 minute ago, sym8 said:

Great thread,for me there movies are entertaining,great choreography but you need highly skilled performers to pull off this kind of action and with the Venoms you get that.All very skilled practitioners and I wish we had people like this performing in today’s movies.👍👍

Thanks, and yes... I sometimes think some people fail to realize and appreciate that that specific era was a unique moment in time regarding action choreography born out of certain cultural circumstances and that it will never come around again. Not that this means they HAVE to like it. But at least acknowledge the context in a historical sense.

[DrNgor]

I've heard stories of the Venoms, especially Lu Feng, Kuo Chi and Chiang Sheng being able to memorize more than a hundred movements*, which is why their fights have long, uninterrupted takes. If that is indeed true, and I suspect it is, then they deserve our respect for that alone.

 

* - I saw an interview of Mak Wai-Cheung (the Eagle Claw guy from Legend of the Wolf, and he said that Jet Li could easily memorize sequences of thirty-some-odd movements, whiche he thought was impressive in and of itself. 

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Those stories have certainly been bandied about for years, and I don't doubt it. They have some of the most impressive long takes and moves per take ratios in the genre, not to mention the amount of people involved. Remembering ones own move sets has to be daunting enough.... also remembering the other guy's, is impressive, throw in three or four fighters in the same scenarion all having to remember their own and all the other guys' moves, that is exceptional. Of course the Venoms were not the only ones capable of this, but certainly put some of the most intricate and flawless examples on show.

[venom10463]

I will always have love for the Venoms, and Crippled Avengers was my introduction to the Venoms. There was a period of my time I was only collecting Venoms films. I would say Five Venoms is my least favorite even though it's considered a cult classic. I felt Five Venoms lacked a strong plot and should have expanded more on each Venoms. For example, how long have the toad and lizard been friends and how did each of them come to learn the poisonous style. It's unfortunate the Venoms didn't have the same popularity in Hong Kong like the U.S, but I think that has more to do with Chinese people bored of kung fu films.

[Killer Meteor]

For me, the Venoms are quick instant noodles compared to the grand banquets from Chang Cheh's 60s films. Nice and easy, ready in minutes!

[YnEoS]

I haven't seen too many venoms films and wouldn't consider myself a big venoms fan, but some years ago I got to go to a theatrical screening of Five Deadly Venoms, and there was even a person who gave a talk on the film.  He mentioned it in relation to the Chor Yuen wuxia intrigue films, and it does seem very much seem like the kung fu version of that. It was a fun screening.

Will have to check out The Kid with the Golden Arm since you all are comparing it to my newly found favorite Have Sword, Will Travel.

[Killer Meteor]

I'd like to have seen the Venoms actors get some solo films, which might have helped them get more attention locally.

[Iron_Leopard]

45 minutes ago, YnEoS said:

I haven't seen too many venoms films and wouldn't consider myself a big venoms fan, but some years ago I got to go to a theatrical screening of Five Deadly Venoms, and there was even a person who gave a talk on the film.  He mentioned it in relation to the Chor Yuen wuxia intrigue films, and it does seem very much seem like the kung fu version of that. It was a fun screening.

Will have to check out The Kid with the Golden Arm since you all are comparing it to my newly found favorite Have Sword, Will Travel.

Wow that's actually a very good comparison.  I'd never thought about that. The Venoms films do feel and play out like Chor Yuen Wuxia films. 

Was Chang Cheh influenced perhaps?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

28 minutes ago, Killer Meteor said:

I'd like to have seen the Venoms actors get some solo films, which might have helped them get more attention locally.

I doubt it. They certainly deserved more respect for their efforts but were looked at as glorified stuntmen by local audiences. If they had been discovered earlier in the Shaw glory days and cultivated as standalone idols, maybe. But not for the time they came about. Also in many interviews, actors like Lo Meng and Chi Kuan Chun mentions that they were signed to Chang's Film co. not Shaws. So there were probably less incentive on Run Run's part to throw big money and promotion behind them in a time where their box office numbers were dwindling.

Edited July 21, 2020 by TibetanWhiteCrane

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

53 minutes ago, YnEoS said:

He mentioned it in relation to the Chor Yuen wuxia intrigue films, and it does seem very much seem like the kung fu version of that. 
 

Five Venoms was def inspired by the Chor Yuen style I think. Don't really see it for the rest of the Venoms filmography.

[Killer Meteor]

Five Venoms has quite a lot of FX trickery, as though it was planned for actors who wern't the real deal .

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

12 minutes ago, Killer Meteor said:

Five Venoms has quite a lot of FX trickery, as though it was planned for actors who wern't the real deal .

Maybe the studio didn't have full faith in a fresh crop of mostly import actors heading their own vehicle so they added some bells and whistles. Or maybe Chang just wanted to show that they were indeed more than glorified stunties and showcase some of their other talents than just flipping around... I don't know.

[Drunken Monk]

I will always be a fan of the Venoms and consider their films some of my favourite martial arts movies. While I think Five Deadly Venoms is a great movie I revisited it recently, remembering it to be some all-out fight fest. As stated above: it’s not. That’s the only reason I was disappointed: I was looking for a fight feat at the time.

Great write up. With those films I recall in detail, I definitely agree with you. Especially what you said about Crippled Avengers having some sequences that seem like staged routines.

[thekfc]

6 hours ago, DrNgor said:

I've heard stories of the Venoms, especially Lu Feng, Kuo Chi and Chiang Sheng being able to memorize more than a hundred movements*, which is why their fights have long, uninterrupted takes.

All three grew up together and attended/trained at the same school (Lu Kwan Peking Opera School), this helps with their takes, fight sequence and such. Which is also a reason why you usually see the three going against each other as they did train together, knew each other moves and thus can formulate great sequences.