Why did Golden Harvest survive but Shaw Brothers didn't?

[DragonClaws]

 

2 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

It's like a recipe. If you have the same temperature and ingredients you are going to get the same dish, over and over. I don't think Shaw had the right ingredients, if you notice how poorly the venoms did in front of the camera when they left for example. Also, Chang's films, for example, were getting slaughtered by the local critics. And another issue was that VCR's and TV Dramas changed the dynamic as well back then. A friend of mine that was hardcore Chinese told me it was much harder to get Chinese people to the cinema in the 80's. They could watch movies on video and the TV shows had all the stuff they wanted for cheaper. You really had to make an event out of movie, which Jackie, Sammo and Michael Hui were capable of. Then John Woo came in and took the stale Kung Fu themes and added guns and acrobatic shoot outs and it was just a huge shift. As much as we like them a lot of those girls with guns were considered cheap flicks.

 

I think if Bruce Lee had made a movie with them, he might have tried to push the studio into doing something a bit different. He may have gone onto re-invent the costume epic?.

 

 

2 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Then John Woo came in and took the stale Kung Fu themes and added guns and acrobatic shoot outs and it was just a huge shift.

 

The stories and themes remained very similar, but John Woo was clearly striving to create his own unique visual style. After almost two decades of Martial Art's movies, it must have been very refreshing to audiences. When Woo came out with his first gun-play epic. He tapped into what the young audiences of the time wanted to see. 

[Cognoscente]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:45 PM, DragonClaws said:

I think if Bruce Lee had made a movie with them, he might have tried to push the studio into doing something a bit different. He may have gone onto re-invent the costume epic?

I think Bruce may have encouraged them to not use fake exteriors. Maybe he would have encouraged them to use the sort of film stock and cameras that the biggest Hollywood productions were using.

It would have made for an interesting dynamic for Bruce to do a Shaw movie that makes more money than a Golden Harvest movie starring a former Shaw actor (Jimmy Wang Yu).

[dionbrother]

Run Run's chain of bowling alleys made more money than his movie studio.  Also, Cinema City forced other studios to change their game when ACES GO PLACES was the biggest hit of all time.  Golden Harvest was willing to keep up(likely why WHEELS ON MEALS was filmed in Spain), but SB would have to change their studio system to make competitive product.  So better to co-produce with Golden Harvest(SEVENTH CURSE, PAINTED FACES, etc.), and rent space to other studios than reinvent the conveyor belt.

[Kwok Choi]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:06 AM, Iron_Leopard said:

Was it because of bigger star power? Better made movies? Or maybe people just eventually got burnt out on the Shaw brand?

Just curious what Golden Harvest did right to ensure their future for two decades after the fall of their rival studio.

Good question but for me they are two sides of the same coin. Had Cathay survived it could have been a different story and Shaw Brothers might not have been too complacent and perhaps Golden Harvest would never have existed. In my opinion Shaw Brothers should not have stopped making movies they just had to revamp their rigid studio system, delegate a lot more to deserving people and share the wealth with more collaborators

In West Africa Shaw Brothers films were truly missed and that region could never have enough of them. Jackie Chan had always been around and it did not matter too much as well as Sam Hui whose hits were only the Aces Go Places films and honestly this did not greatly affect the popularity of Shaw Brother movies in that area. Jackie Chan's popular films were Shaolin Wooden Men,Snake in the Eagle's Shadow - released as Eagle's Claw,Snake's Fist,Cat's Paw, Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin, Dragon Fist. (Strangely Drunken Master did not make a bigger impact like Snake in the Eagle's Shadow) The Fearless Hyena was a mega hit. The Young Master did well but Snake in the Eagle's Shadow was the biggest Jackie Chan box office draw till Police Story and Project A broke that record.

By the way this is based on box office records and takings I witnessed and was part of but the success of these titles related to many other factors rather than the quality or pedigree of the films in general.The following Shaw Brothers films at the time of Jackie's success were also box office gold : Two Champions of Shaolin, The Kid with the Golden Arms, Brave Archer 3, Crippled Avengers, The Master aka 3 Evil Masters, The 36th Chamber of Shaolin, Martial Club. Mad Monkey Kung Fu, Executioners of Shaolin, Fists of the White Lotus, Monkey Kung Fu, Five Element Ninja - Phew! 8 Diagram Pole Fighters - Whoa!! House of Traps also did very well though not a favourite of mine.

Side note on the independent scene, 7 Grandmasters eclipsed Snake in the Eagle's Shadow. The Secret Rivals was mega and extremely popular till part 2 took that spot ( I am more emotional towards part one though) Snuff Bottle Connection, The Incredible Kung Fu Mission, Hells Wind Staff, Two Great Cavaliers, Invincible Armour (John Liu's most successful film ever in the region) Shaolin Ex Monk, and boy! 7 Steps of Kung Fu was huge!!!!. These films and many more like The Sleeping Fist and The Thundering Mantis also helped balance things out. Jet Li' Shaolin Temple was also a huge hit. The Victim and The Buddhist Fist also scored higher.

Golden Harvest upped the ante with Warriors Two, The Prodigal Son released as Pull No Punches,The Cheeky Chap also did good business and we should also remember that the Cannon Group films were also running at this time with all that Ninja stuff, the Chuck Norris movies, the Golden Sun Alexander Lo Rei movies filled gaps as well so we were really spoilt for choice.

Jackie Chan's Police Story changed everything of course but this was not in defiance of Shaws, he was definitely trying to prove a point that was not directly related to Shaw Brothers trademark depictions but even so Royal Warriors released as Police Assassins and Righting Wrongs released as Above the Law gain some of that popularity as well including the In the Line of Duty series. By the time of Project A and Amour of God, Shaws Brothers films started dwindling in that territory to the surprise of the general public because there were still formidable titles to match the success of other companies and Shaws were still considered the major Hong Kong movie production company well loved and respected. I am still of the opinion that Sir Run Run Shaw should have taken a back seat, changed his rigid studio system and let the loyal and talented film-makers get their rightful dues. Shaw Brothers would still have been making significant cinema releases up to this day with many co-productions to boot possibly even with Hollywood Studios.

Please note that Hong Kong Cinema popularly referred to as "Chinese Films" was mainstream in West Africa so they had general theatrical releases like any major Hollywood studio film production and as a result the region was oversaturated with Kung Fu films which meant that the release dates did not always match those of the Fast East and the West. The reason for this was most of the films were delayed or simply held back to get maximum box office returns from a successfully running movie therefore it was not unusual to see films made almost 3 years apart hitting the circuit almost at the same time period.

[thekfc]

4 hours ago, Kwok Choi said:

Snake in the Eagle's Shadow - released as Eagle's Claw, Snake's Fist, Cat's Paw,

That is the title I saw it under.

[Kwok Choi]

2 hours ago, thekfc said:

That is the title I saw it under.

........and the poster was also different from any other artwork I have seen but I honestly like the Snake in the Eagle's Shadow title better because it suits the movie's plot more as the Snake Fist Clan was figuratively constantly in the shadow of the Eagle's Claw Sect. By the way The Secret Rivals was so successful that 7 Grandmasters was released as Seven Secret Rivals. 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Kwok Choi

[Cognoscente]

6 hours ago, Kwok Choi said:

Snake in the Eagle's Shadow - released as Eagle's Claw, Snake's Fist, Cat's Paw

They missed a beat by not modelling the poster after The Hot, The Cool and The Vicious. In fact, they could have called it The Eagle, The Snake and the Cat.

[Kwok Choi]

The funny thing was when Snake In The Eagle's Shadow II (Wang Tao, Carter Wong)  was released everybody was saying how come we missed part one. Why part two first, when are we gonna see part one..............