What kinda movie would we have got from Bruce Lee had he lived

[sym8]

What would we have got from Bruce Lee had he lived,and do you think he would have been any good in a traditional Kung fu movie with shapes.

[Josh Baker]

1 hour ago, sym8 said:

What would we have got from Bruce Lee had he lived,and do you think he would have been any good in a traditional Kung fu movie with shapes.

We would've got a follow up to Enter the Dragon in 1974, released by Warner Bros, that was a spiritual sequel, probably adhering to a similar formula and set-up, which aimed to go bigger and better than Enter the Dragon, and was far more lavish and expensive, in a similar way where the next Bond film is always trying to top the previous one in spectacle. Lee would be paired with bigger stars (McQueen? Eastwood? Chiba?) bigger production, more outlandish and larger than life villains, and larger scale fights in bigger arenas, probably on the scale of something like the volcano lair sequence in You Only Live Twice; basically Enter the Dragon on steroids, every element of that film turned up to eleven, to exploit the Kung Fu Craze to its fullest. Hell, he may have even got an Asian love interest. It probably would've been what The Shrine of Ultimate Bliss was intended to be, but I highly believe Bruce would've rejected that script, and maybe even further shut Raymond Chow out of the proceedings for his next collaboration with Warner Brothers.

After the release of the film, Lee may have realized the film while good was too over indulgent and for the rest of his career resigned himself to smaller more philosophical projects, (adaption of Southern Fist, Northern Leg?) probably funded independently and I think Lee would've moved away from the studio system sometime in the late 1970s.

Lee would do several traditional kung fu pictures in Hong Kong during this time, as he loved to be in projects that showed off his Chinese culture. These would be probably mostly for Shaw Brothers or smaller companies; I get the feeling Lee would've drifted away from Golden Harvest as time went on, and expanded Concord Productions, to give himself more personal autonomy over his productions.

Maybe in the 1980s he would've drifted away from film-making altogether? And focused on the development of Jeet Kune Do and philanthropy for Chinese causes? Who knows? Bruce was a man who was always evolving and changing and adapting, so I doubt he would've stayed in the same industry consistently for over 50 years. He may have had a bit of a renaissance in movies like Cheng Pei-Pei in the 90s, but who knows? I think Lee would've had a more varied next fifty years, devoting more time to his family definitely, written more books and maybe instructional films about Jeet Kune Do, and maybe created and funded organisations to raise public consciousness in America for Eastern cultures. He also would've been still highly respected in Hong Kong and not seen as some sort of Western Traitor, especially by stars like Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung, who I think would've made it in a similar way to how they did in real life.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

Hmmm, I think he would have been typecast and gotten stuck in some bad productions, like every other action star with limited acting ability. That being said, he may have been able to carve out a niche directing, a la Wang Yu, etc, and put out some films working around his limits. To be honest, I think comedy would be a big factor. He wanted to do something on the level of Kubrick, according to Polly's bio, but I just don't think he had the acting ability in Asia or here. Ti Lung and others could eat his lunch acting wise. Also, who knows how long he could sustain his whole deal? He wanted a never lose a fight condition in his movies. Where's the suspense? It would get around pretty fast that there was a formula. Also, he could easily get ruined by a big budget disaster like Killer Elite, paring him with some "maverick" director or maybe an actor like Eastwood or Bronson that just doesn't click. Dying young preserves his legacy, like Hendrix or James Dean. Imagine if Hendrix didn't OD, and just got more and more wasted? Or Dean got arrested hustling guys in Hollywood bathrooms? 

Or, like Jim Kelly, he just makes a bunch of low brow movies for AIP or maybe Golan Globus. 

I mean if there was a chance that an awesome, international super production that sold a lot of tickets would have happened, it would have happened without him. Just my two cents as well.

[ShawAngela]

22 minutes ago, Josh Baker said:

He also would've been still highly respected in Hong Kong and not seen as some sort of Western Traitor, especially by stars like Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung,

Do you mean that it's what they think of him ?

That's not very fair, then, especially knowing that each of them also went to make movies in the States, and even a series for Sammo !!

Oh, well, I idealize my idols too much, they are human beings after all...

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

He would have done so many Hollywood films. He would rule Golden Harvest, even do some movies with Pam Grier and other blacksploitation superstars imagine that? 

[Josh Baker]

1 minute ago, ShawAngela said:

Do you mean that it's what they think of him ?

That's not very fair, then, especially knowing that each of them also went to make movies in the States, and even a series for Sammo !!

Oh, well, I idealize my idols too much, they are human beings after all...

I meant that he still would've been respected in Hong Kong despite making films in the US. I only made this point in relation to the fact that Enter the Dragon wasn't very well received in Hong Kong at the time of release for being too Westernized. So on the contrary I think that any ill will he had in Hong Kong because of this would've quickly subsided.

[Josh Baker]

6 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Hmmm, I think he would have been typecast and gotten stuck in some bad productions, like every other action star with limited acting ability. That being said, he may have been able to carve out a niche directing, a la Wang Yu, etc, and put out some films working around his limits. To be honest, I think comedy would be a big factor. He wanted to do something on the level of Kubrick, according to Polly's bio, but I just don't think he had the acting ability in Asia or here. Ti Lung and others could eat his lunch acting wise. Also, who knows how long he could sustain his whole deal? He wanted a never lose a fight condition in his movies. Where's the suspense? It would get around pretty fast that there was a formula. Also, he could easily get ruined by a big budget disaster like Killer Elite, paring him with some "maverick" director or maybe an actor like Eastwood or Bronson that just doesn't click. Dying young preserves his legacy, like Hendrix or James Dean. Imagine if Hendrix didn't OD, and just got more and more wasted? Or Dean got arrested hustling guys in Hollywood bathrooms? 

Or, like Jim Kelly, he just makes a bunch of low brow movies for AIP or maybe Golan Globus. 

I mean if there was a chance that an awesome, international super production that sold a lot of tickets would have happened, it would have happened without him. Just my two cents as well.

I think Bruce Lee is a better actor than people give him credit for; he was raised by an actor and spent most of his childhood being a child actor, so its not like he was inexperienced. Plus remember Enter the Dragon was originally the 'bad production' you say he might've gotten himself into the mid 70s, but due to his protesting and strength of will he put pressure on the producers to make changes to the script and make a superior film; he was even willing to quit the film, which remember was the opportunity he had been seeking throughout his career, to make sure the film wasn't just action schlock. So for that reason, I don't think he would've allowed himself to be pigeonholed by American producers or directors into 'that Kung Fu guy' and moreover wouldn't have allowed himself to be typecast. I believe in reaction to this he would've either went back to Hong Kong to make films or expanded Concord Productions to make films independently in the US.

[ShawAngela]

12 minutes ago, Josh Baker said:

I don't think he would've allowed himself to be pigeonholed by American producers or directors into 'that Kung Fu guy' and moreover wouldn't have allowed himself to be typecast.

If I remember well, that's exactly what is shown in one of Bruce Li's movie about Bruce Lee's life, when the producer wants him to wear the traditional outfit of a Mandarin official and he rebels about that.

By the way, welcome to the forum @Josh Baker. I think that we have another Bruce Lee's specialist here, now...

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

3 hours ago, Josh Baker said:

I think Bruce Lee is a better actor than people give him credit for; he was raised by an actor and spent most of his childhood being a child actor, so its not like he was inexperienced. Plus remember Enter the Dragon was originally the 'bad production' you say he might've gotten himself into the mid 70s, but due to his protesting and strength of will he put pressure on the producers to make changes to the script and make a superior film; he was even willing to quit the film, which remember was the opportunity he had been seeking throughout his career, to make sure the film wasn't just action schlock. So for that reason, I don't think he would've allowed himself to be pigeonholed by American producers or directors into 'that Kung Fu guy' and moreover wouldn't have allowed himself to be typecast. I believe in reaction to this he would've either went back to Hong Kong to make films or expanded Concord Productions to make films independently in the US.

I'm going mostly on Matthew Polly's bio and Asian film critics as well. He was not considered a great actor and it hurt his career in the USA. HE could not have played a monk, for instance.

[ShawAngela]

15 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

He was not considered a great actor and it hurt his career in the USA.

Maybe because he wasn't given the opportunity to show that he WAS a good actor, being cast as just a " martial arts beast ".

Did you watch all of his earlier movies ?

Also, some bits of comedy in his movies make me think that he would have been a good comedic actor too, he had a good humor (see the way he asks his opponents to fight him, or how he seems to be jaded when he sees that his opponents insist on fighting him though there are far inferior to him.

 

19 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

HE could not have played a monk,

What allows you to be so affirmative ? Why not ?

I can see him playing a righteous and fierce shaolin monk defending oppressed people very well.

And to answer the original question of this thread, I think that he might have done great costume wuxia movies had he been in the Shaws' staff.

The pictures taken at the Shaws' studios showing him as a Mandarin official let me think that maybe for the first time in his career he might have played a corrupted official, a vicious bad guy, or on the contrary, a righteous official trying to wipe out the corrupted ones.

[Alan C]

4 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

I'm going mostly on Matthew Polly's bio and Asian film critics as well. He was not considered a great actor and it hurt his career in the USA. HE could not have played a monk, for instance.

Disagree with you on this one. I think Bruce had good range as an actor. His two best performances, purely from an acting standpoint, are The Big Boss and The Orphan. The former, hardly anyone references the nuance he brought to the role and the latter, very few fans  have actually seen.

While it's true that his American performances tended to be a little stiff -- mainly due to his self conciousness with English as well as overall 'beginners'* nerves -- the acting talent was clearly there. And it was pretty good, and I believe would have become more organic with time. 

That said, he could have pulled off the role of a monk for sure. The character of Ah Sahm in the Silent Flute was essentially that. What Tom Kuhn relayed was the intensity he saw in Bruce upon their first meeting : passionate, verbose and on fire, swinging nunchucks. Not the first impression that leads one to think of a pacifist monk.

But still doesnt mean he  couldn't/wouldn't have played it well.🙂

 

* although he wasn't a beginner in the sense that he had been acting for most of his life at that point,  he would have felt like a beginner in that he was now a small fish in a big pond, rather than a teen idol from a prestigious showbiz family.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Alan C

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

2 minutes ago, Alan C said:

Disagree with you on this one. I think Bruce had good range as an actor. His two best performances, purely from an acting standpoint, are The Big Boss and The Orphan. The former, hardly anyone references the nuance he brought to the role and the latter, very few fans  have actually seen.

While it's true that his American performances tended to be a little stiff -- mainly due to his self conciousness with English as well as overall 'beginners'*nerves -- the acting talent was clearly there. And it was pretty good, and I believe would have become more organic with time. 

That said,  he could have pulled off the role of a monk for sure. The character of Ah Sahm in the Silent Flute was essentially that. What Tom Kuhn relayed was the intensity he saw in Bruce upon their first meeting : passionate, verbose and on fire swinging nunchucks. Not the first impression that leads one to think of a pacifist monk.

But still  doesnt mean he  couldn't/ wouldn't have played it well.🙂

 

* although he wasnt a beginner in the sense that he had been acting for most of his life at the point,  he would have felt like a beginner in that he was now a small fish in a big pond, rather than a teen idol from a prestigious showbiz family

Compared to Mako, and other actors, I would tend to disagree. But to each their own.

[saltysam]

I thought Bruce was a fine actor myself.

[Alan C]

18 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Compared to Mako, and other actors, I would tend to disagree. But to each their own.

Loved Mako in the first Conan. Come to think of it, in the second one too😀

[CT KID]

I believe Bruce was an ok actor with incredible charisma but he probably would have improved a great deal as he matured. I don't think he could have played the role of Caine nowhere near as good as Carradine did in Kung Fu but would have made the fight scenes so much better. Carradine's martial arts ability was pretty much nonexistent lol.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I mentioned Mako because Lee had tried for roles in things like the Sand Peebles and failed. It would have been interesting to see in a period piece, he was terrified of horses, unlike everyone else at Shaw Brothers. 

[DragonClaws]

19 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

I mentioned Mako because Lee had tried for roles in things like the Sand Peebles and failed. It would have been interesting to see in a period piece,

 

I love Mako, he appeared in so many of my favourites movies and not just Martial Art's stuff. Sadly Bruce Lee was never given the same range of roles Mako had. Even if you include Bruce Lee's child/teenage roles. His filmography doesnt compare to that of Mako's. I would love to have seen them both in a serious drama or thriller, just to see how they compared to each other on-screen.

 

Quote

he was terrified of horses, unlike everyone else at Shaw Brothers. 

 

True, and he wasnt happy about having to ride one during the making of Here Come The Brides. Didnt Jackie Chan have to overcome the same fear/phobia when he was working Shanghia Noon?.

Edited April 20, 2020 by DragonClaws

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

4 hours ago, DragonClaws said:

 

I love Mako, he appeared in so many of my favourites movies and not just Martial Art's stuff. Sadly Bruce Lee was never given the same range of roles Mako had. Even if you include Bruce Lee's child/teenage roles. His filmography doesnt compare to that of Mako's. I would love to have seen them both in a serious drama or thriller, just to see how they compared to each other on-screen.

 

 

True, and he wasnt happy about having to ride one during the making of Here Come The Brides. Didnt Jackie Chan have to overcome the same fear/phobia when he was working Shanghia Noon?.

Mako is the villain in a Green Hornet episode, double by Danny Inosantos.

 

[DragonClaws]

4 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Mako is the villain in a Green Hornet episode, double by Danny Inosantos.

 

That's right, but i dont think the Green Hornet showed either of them in a great light. I just wish they had both appeared in somethng more serious, that actually put their respective acting talents to the test.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

The thing that would concern me is that he was being courted (and I think they would have been the highest bidder) by Golan Globus, producers of a lot of Chuck Norris's b-title work. If you would be happy with that level of work, well, I get it, there would be fights and explosions, but it's not that far from the stuff in Hong Kong. Now if Warner Bros grabbed him and gave him what he needed, who knows? I think Silent Flute would be a disaster, but he could have weathered it, if they let him make it. Remember, they thought of him as a one trick pony and he wanted to play SEVEN ROLES! That's a lot of acting (maybe Seven Faces of Dr Lao pissed him off and he wanted to counter it) for a guy that according to Matthew Polly, Hollywood insiders thought was pretty limited. On the flip side, if they thrown the money behind an ETD sequel and the Asian James Bond thing, we might have a whole different filmography. The thing is, if Bruce was successful on a Bond level, the rest of the HK and Taiwan output would have been squelched I think. Who would want to see a cheap karate  movie (like a cheap spy movie) if you could see something with Lee on the level of Thunderball?

Edited April 20, 2020 by NoKUNGFUforYU

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

2 minutes ago, DragonClaws said:

 

That's right, but i dont think the Green Hornet showed either of them in a great light. I just wish they had both appeared in somethng more serious, that actually put their respective acting talents to the test.

He could have played Han, that would be something. I still think martial arts wise and as a worthy opponent, Pai Ying is the best choice. Better actor, younger, etc.

[Killer Meteor]

It depends. Lee could have made enough money to pick and choose his projects so he wouldn't have been forced into a factory line like Chang Cheh (who made probably a dozen films to Lee's four between 71/73) or he could have ended up like Jackie Chan is now - appearing in anything for the sake of it.

[ShawAngela]

21 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Mako is the villain in a Green Hornet episode, double by Danny Inosantos.

 

I think that all of you guys who say " this one is doubled by this one " have very sharp eagle's eyes, because I'm totally unable to make the difference between the actor and his double in movies. I don't remember in which movie a member said that it was Yuen Biao who doubled I-don't-remember-who, but first, I wasn't aware of this, and second, I didn't see it !!

Thanks for sharing this clip. at the end of it, the Chinese girl looks very much like Ching Li, in my opinion.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

3 hours ago, ShawAngela said:

I think that all of you guys who say " this one is doubled by this one " have very sharp eagle's eyes, because I'm totally unable to make the difference between the actor and his double in movies. I don't remember in which movie a member said that it was Yuen Biao who doubled I-don't-remember-who, but first, I wasn't aware of this, and second, I didn't see it !!

Thanks for sharing this clip. at the end of it, the Chinese girl looks very much like Ching Li, in my opinion.

Well, the reason I knew it was because I read it somewhere. Also, easy to see why they might use him- Bruce's student and the same size as Mako.

[ShawAngela]

17 minutes ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Also, easy to see why they might use him- Bruce's student

Are you saying that Yuen Biao was Bruce's student or are you just talking of a certain Bruce's double ?

Was Bruce Lee ever doubled ?