John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - Keanu Reeves, Lawrence Fishburne, Donnie Yen, Hiroyuki Sanada, Rina Sawayama

[One Armed Boxer]

So I just got back from checking out JW4 on the cinema, and I'll weigh in with my thoughts. I know it's been mentioned several times that the embargo lifted on March 6th and there's plenty of reviews already out there, but I'll try to keep my comments as spoiler free as possible.

When people ask me to describe the John Wick franchise (which, for the record, they never do), I always say that with each installment the action gets better and better, while the story and acting becomes weaker and weaker.

Chapter 4 only reinforces that opinion (although nothing in this entry beats the antique store fight against Roger Yuen and his cronies in 'Parabellum'), and with a runtime clocking in at close to 3 hours, it's a big ask for audiences to be invested in a paper thin story that we already know (Wick wants to be free from the high table - that's it) and a main character who's practically become monosyllabic since the original in 2014.

I think how much enjoyment will be derived from JW4 will largely depend on audiences appetite for high table talk. Personally I preferred the humanity the character was given in the original (a grieving husband pushed over the edge by his dog being killed), and in that regard the franchise is unique in the way that, rather than further fleshing out his character with subsequent entries, John Wick has basically devolved into a 1-dimensional killing machine who gets progressively less lines with each entry.

There's a lot of high table talk in JW4, and the opening hour is a laborious affair save for a fun assault of Hiroyuki Sanada's Osaka branch of the Continental (and yes, like 'Parabellum' here the best action is front loaded). A stilted script full of heavy handed cliched musings spoken with a weight the narrative hasn't earned, and awkward attempts at humour that land with a resounding thud, make any non-action scenes a strangely tensionless affair. With nothing going on dramatically, that leaves any build up of momentum squarely on the shoulders of the action.

To that effect, JW4 comes with a heavyweight cast of action talent. Top of the pile in terms of expectation is Donnie Yen, and he does his thing well enough. My main problem is that his character's sole purpose is to act cool, and when you combine that with Yen's sizable ego, what you're left with is an updated version of his hitman in 1998's 'Ballistic Kiss' (and that's not meant as a compliment). Thankfully we still get the Ip Man-chain punch, and (going even further back) the classic Yen wind-up punch, both of which are thrown into the mix in addition to his primarily sword based fighting style.

Scott Adkins is onboard as a hybrid of Roy Chubby Brown and Sammo Hung from 'SPL', as is Marko Zaror as Bill Skarsgård's righthand man, both of whom get to throw down against Reeves in scenes that deliver on the physicality, but lack any real emotional connection.  What the deal was with Shamier Anderson's character and his dog I don't know, as he seems to be completely superfluous to the plot, and if all of his scenes (there’s a lot of them) were cut it'd make precisely zero difference to where the narrative ends up.

Surprisingly towards the end there's a couple of laugh out loud moments which hit the mark 100% (one involving Marko Zaror and the other involving Donnie Yen) which made me think how much more enjoyable the Wick movies would be if they didn't play things so poker faced and overly serious. Kind of like the direction 'The Transporter' movies went in during the 2000's, when the first one seemed to want us to take Jason Statham's character at least semi-seriously, then the sequels just said actually forget trying to take this stuff seriously, let's just go all in on the crazy action and have some fun.  I couldn't help but feel that, despite the outstanding action onscreen, sometimes the 'fun' element of it just felt lacking.

I'm honestly expecting to be one of the few who wasn't left thinking that this is the best action movie of the 2020's, but for me at least, if this does turn out to be the last of the 'John Wick' flicks, then I'm ok with it being laid to rest. 

[laagi]

@One Armed Boxer Careful there, trying to judge a John Wick movie on its plot?! How dare you sir

Well I had a little longer to digest the movie than most and now I can just give some thoughts to it myself.

The story as mentioned by our brother is literally non-existent that much is true! John wants to get out of his life as assassin for the better or obviously bloody worse.

For me the weakest part of the movie was the villain portrayed by Bill Skarsgård. He brought literally nothing new to the table (pun intended).

I'm probably also one of the few who doesn't share the general consensus that Donnie Yen is the stand out here. As @One Armed Boxer mentioned above Donnie is just Donnie here. He's fine and I always enjoy watching him on screen.

The true stand out to me was Adkins and I was not really thrilled seeing him in a fat suit to begin with. I mean this is Boyka for crying out loud! But somehow his short screen presence reminded me of the good old HK style action days that I so much love and honestly miss. It's silly comedy paired with top notch violence. And that's exactly what I got out of it!

Symbolic it comes as no surprise though that barely anything from the movie (after three weeks) stuck with me. I've enjoyed it while watching that's for sure and the runtime didn't bother me at all. But yeah (John Wick voice).

One last thing, I thought Rina Sawayama was badly underused. Although I'm aware there's a twist to that...

@One Armed Boxer Did you at least stick around for the after-credits scene?

Last but not least a crew member told me he was equally indifferent to the story and action and overall thought the movie was OK.

Also apparently A LOT was left on the cutting room floor, so lord only knows what additional and potentially bad-ass scenes we missed out on.

Edited March 22, 2023 by laagi

[AlbertV]

 

[One Armed Boxer]

8 hours ago, laagi said:

For me the weakest part of the movie was the villain portrayed by Bill Skarsgård. He brought literally nothing new to the table (pun intended).

Good one!  

Spoiler

Agreed, having Skarsgård play a villain who literally spends the entire runtime (up to and including the finale!) doing everything in his power to avoid Wick was a mistake. His performance is fine, but the narrative fails to make him a threat in any way whatsoever, and having them not even meet until well into the final reel only exasperated the already bloated runtime.

 

8 hours ago, laagi said:

@One Armed Boxer Did you at least stick around for the after-credits scene?

Nope, and in a sign that probably shows exactly how ambivalent I was towards the whole thing, reading that there was one had precisely zero impact on me.

What did I miss? (Spoiler function alert!)

8 hours ago, laagi said:

Also apparently A LOT was left on the cutting room floor, so lord only knows what additional and potentially bad-ass scenes we missed out on.

No more bad-assery please. I already felt like I'd overdosed on Wick's 'takedown and shoot' technique by the end of the first Osaka set action scene. If the cut scenes involve some characterisation and plot then maybe count me in, otherwise happy to leave them where they are!

[laagi]

7 minutes ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Nope, and in a sign that probably shows exactly how ambivalent I was towards the whole thing, reading that there was one had precisely zero impact on me.

What did I miss? (Spoiler function alert!)

Spoilers below THIS is your only warning

Spoiler

We see Caine with a flower bouquet in his hand ready to face his daughter (playing the violin in the streets of Paris). While making his way towards her a shadowy figure appears in the crowd, getting closer to him "she" draws a blade. Surprise it's drum rolls please... Akira?! And the credits cut away.

For me a pretty strong indication we're gonna get (yet) another Chapter or dare I say spin-off? I mean John technically hit the bucket although I can only suspend so much disbelief. He kind of died of screen so he can always come back.

 

[WangYu]

I like honest reviews without hyperbole so thanks @One Armed Boxer and @laagi.

I got exhausted with Parabellum so I expect more of the same. It’s a shame though because some of these fight scenes are absolute art. Imagine being emotionally invested in them…

 

[laagi]

15 hours ago, AlbertV said:

 

I always kind of cringe at these... Here's a peanut now show us a trick monkey?! But that's been going on with MA actors for as long as I can remember.

[laagi]

19 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

What the deal was with Shamier Anderson's character and his dog I don't know, as he seems to be completely superfluous to the plot, and if all of his scenes (there’s a lot of them) were cut it'd make precisely zero difference to where the narrative ends up.

On that particular note, isn't it obvious we needed another episode of "DOG FU: Go Fetch!". C'mon now you start to disappoint me...

And if I'd feel malicious, gotta have at least one ass-kicking brotha, right?!

[One Armed Boxer]

3 hours ago, laagi said:

I always kind of cringe at these... Here's a peanut now show us a trick monkey?! But that's been going on with MA actors for as long as I can remember.

Apparently this clip was too controversial for Australia  - 

13 hours ago, laagi said:

Spoilers below THIS is your only warning

3 hours ago, laagi said:

On that particular note, isn't it obvious we needed another episode of "DOG FU: Go Fetch!". C'mon now you start to disappoint me...

Thanks for filling me in! Honestly, considering we get to know precisely zero about his character, when you mentioned the post-credits scene the first thing that came to mind was that it'd probably be a reveal

Spoiler

showing him to be the guy who trained Halle Berry's dogs in JW3, hence his pet companion and return of the dog-fu, so then we'd finally understand his connection to the plot. But, no, guess not!

 

[laagi]

3 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Thanks for filling me in! Honestly, considering we get to know precisely zero about his character, when you mentioned the post-credits scene the first thing that came to mind was that it'd probably be a reveal

Copy paste your spoiler for pretty much every (new) character in the movie. There's just nothing there...

Again I think anyone going into this looking for a story or some character development will be sorely disappointed!

[WangYu]

Can someone explain me why John Wick 4 gets away with zero plot or character development but a movie like avatar the way of water in every reviews gets criticized for having a flimsy derivative plot? This is a rhetorical question.

They’ re really clutching at straws to say something negative about the avatar sequel and it is very unfair and monkey ish behavior. If I didn’t know any better the internet tried to make me believe nobody was waiting for Avatar 2, that it would be a huge flop so perhaps that is why there needs to be some negativity…

Before someone calls me a fanboy or a hater I haven’t seen either film.

Edited March 23, 2023 by WangYu

[thekfc]

Am I the only one who went into watching JW4 not expecting some kind of (major) story or character development?

For me it was simple - John Wick is going after the HT, there is a truckload of assassins after him - friends & foes and he have to waste them or be wasted.

My main disappointment was as previously stated by @laagi was Bill Skarsgård - but that will not stop me from going to see it again in IMAX.

[laagi]

3 hours ago, thekfc said:

Am I the only one who went into watching JW4 not expecting some kind of (major) story or character development?

For me it was simple - John Wick is going after the HT, there is a truckload of assassins after him - friends & foes and he have to waste them or be wasted.

My main disappointment was as previously stated by @laagi was Bill Skarsgård - but that will not stop me from going to see it again in IMAX.

Nope you're definitely not the only one LOL. And to me that's the only way the movie will remotely work for the general audience.

4 hours ago, WangYu said:

Can someone explain me why John Wick 4 gets away with zero plot or character development but a movie like avatar the way of water in every reviews gets criticized for having a flimsy derivative plot? This is a rhetorical question.

They’ re really clutching at straws to say something negative about the avatar sequel and it is very unfair and monkey ish behavior. If I didn’t know any better the internet tried to make me believe nobody was waiting for Avatar 2, that it would be a huge flop so perhaps that is why there needs to be some negativity…

Before someone calls me a fanboy or a hater I haven’t seen either film.

Well if you judge the two on their strong points and strong points alone than I agree with you!

One is the pinnacle of action while the other is the pinnacle of digital art AND neither one of them delivers anything else, period!

Now the difference is that neither Keanu nor Chad are going out there and pretending to revolutionize cinema, although in their own right they might very well have.

While Cameron always had his gigantic head up his own ass. So I guess that's probably why his work does tend to get "more" negative press. Just my two cents

[One Armed Boxer]

3 hours ago, thekfc said:

Am I the only one who went into watching JW4 not expecting some kind of (major) story or character development?

For a 90 minute action flick, no, plot and character aren't my priorities for enjoyment. For an almost 3 hour epic, yeah, I expect some plot and characterisation to keep me engaged.

[WangYu]

It should not matter when you like a director or not. Reviews should be fair and honest.

But I am naive like that.

[SamSeed]

So. That was a wild ride.

I think it's important to say from the off that the least interesting thing about John Wick 4 is John Wick. Given that his name carries the franchise, he is a spectacularly uninteresting character who says so little and frankly there are no real stakes for him, so I really struggled to sympathise.

Also, be prepared for a very, very long build up to the first action sequence. It has to be said that these films take themselves so seriously and yet I struggled to care at all about the alleged plot, of which there is very little, and what there is revolves mainly around conversations about The High Table in hushed tones. Essentially it boils down to this - as an overall film, I think John Wick 4 is quite poor. No character development or character arcs, little reason to care about anybody, which makes the scenes between the action drag.

That's the negatives, and I wanted to get them out of the way.

Because the action.

Wow.

I will say that I did begin to get a little bored of the video game repetitiveness of Wick's ju-jitsu takedown-headshot routine, but otherwise once again Stahelski and chums have outdone themselves. Donnie Yen is obviously a standout, I'll put this in spoilers for those who haven't seen it yet.

Spoiler

Yen gets to showcase the famous Ip Man chain punches in a brutal fight, as well as a lovely if all too short sword fight with Hiroyuki Sanada. Adkins is underused but, as always, brilliant. My personal favourite fight was set on a highway as Wick fights off henchmen between roaring traffic, as well as a climactic battle on a huge stairway.

Scott Adkins is absolutely hilarious playing a character that has to be a homage to Sammo in SPL. Talking of humour, there are two moments towards the end of the film that got huge laughs from the audience I saw it with, which I won't spoil.

Overall, watch it on the biggest screen you can for the action, but the action is all I can recommend, because the film around it is formulaic and, dare I say it, dull.

Edited March 24, 2023 by SamSeed

[J.J. Hayden]

The FNT crew are singing the films praises right now, especially for Donnie  

 

 

[Karlos]

https://www.cbr.com/john-wick-4-runtime-first-cut-world-building/

[sym8]

I don’t know how many ways you can kill someone but John Wick knows quite a few.This was a blast from beginning to end.Part 3 was still the best for me but this was a worthy entry with fantastic long action sequences and great cast.Must watch.👍👍👍👍👍

[Josh Baker]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:34 AM, One Armed Boxer said:

Who wore them better? 

As a short man myself I respect it.

I saw the film on opening day in the UK and I thought it was very very good. It is too long which will affect the re-watch ability factor, and by the start of the third act I was thinking to myself "ok lets start to wrap this up now" but the following action is so good that thought quickly left my mind, and narratively I felt it was justified, and the film is mostly well paced throughout, better paced than John Wick 3 which I felt got a bit exhausting toward the end despite being a very good film as well.

I would say its slightly better than 3 but still not quite at the level of 1 which still remains my favourite of the series, but I have to commend the creative team for continuing such a high level of quality throughout the films, 2 is the weakest for me and I still consider it a good film.

I feared with each continuing instalment it would eventually jump the shark as when you think about it, the first one was self contained and didn't really need a sequel, but each follow up adds to the Lore of the universe and new dimensions to the story and the action; to the point where this film actually made me feel emotional, not something I was expecting amongst the blood and guts.

John Wick is a well deserved, bona fide franchise; I look forward to Ballerina even though it probably wont be as good.

[DiP]

There are rumors of more spin-offs coming in the near future, including a Caine spin-off. Donnie himself reveals that there are good possibilities for that to happen.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/donnie-yen-john-wick-4-caine-spin-off-quentin-tarantino-bruce-lee-1235565269/

[J.J. Hayden]

6 minutes ago, DiP said:

There are rumors of more spin-offs coming in the near future, including a Caine spin-off. Donnie himself reveals that there are good possibilities for that to happen.

I'd heard that too, sounds good for Donnie. I know it's highly unlikely, but wouldn't it be great to have a spin off with Donnie Yen fighting Won Jin, that would be the event of a lifetime, and It'd be worth it.....unlike that Jackie Chan vs Jet Li shitfest.

[WangYu]

Everything but my favorite things get a live action tv show these days! I want to relive my childhood too you know…

Where is thundercats, conan, king kong, tarzan etc? 😝

Edited March 28, 2023 by WangYu

[Drunken Monk]

I watched it last night and I might still be riding the high but I’m tempted to say John Wick 4 is the best Hollywood action film of all time. Yes, this is subjective. But it absolutely blew me away as far as set pieces go.

A lot of people have criticized the characters and emotional weight of the story but I found it to be pretty solid. I think there was plenty of weight and each character was interesting in their own right. The only one that felt “off” was Mr. Nobody. He just wasn’t fleshed out enough. Everyone else was great. In fact, for me, this was Donnie’s best ever role. He Daly stood out and acted his arse off.

The action was simply the best the western world has to offer. I was giddy throughout. From the nunchucks to the dragon’s breath to the stairs. Pure perfection. I adored this film.

[ShaOW!linDude]

The wife and I took this in last night. I was absolutely stunned. This movie is an action fan's wet dream. I was super happy that Zaror's role was fairly significant and not just a throwaway henchman. Yen is hypnotic to watch. Sanada radiates calm charisma. Adkins...oh my word! He was a blast as Killa, and his fight with Keanu did not disappoint in its run time, which I was concerned might be the case. It had some comical moments, but was very brutal. Keanu is just awesome as always.

The thing that really struck me was the settings and scenarios. These were not momentary or locales to just wade through. Stahelski selects an arena of combat and then considers all the different scenarios and dynamics, and spends time playing with it and showcasing the action. The gallery, the roundabout, the nightclub, the stairs, etc. 

This movie is a buffet! A smorgasbord, even!!! I was stuffed at its conclusion, and wanted more. (And they trimmed about 45 minutes off the film?)

Edited March 28, 2023 by ShaOW!linDude