John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - Keanu Reeves, Lawrence Fishburne, Donnie Yen, Hiroyuki Sanada, Rina Sawayama

[Karlos]

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/chad-stahelski-tribute-to-bruce-lee-exclusive/

 

[WangYu]

I watched it

Maybe the hype was too big but I was letdown. I was bored for most of the film, I also was tired. Main villain was a pussy and looked like a boyscout. None of the other bad guys looked menacing this includes a blind Donnie and a fat Scott. Acting overall pretty mediocre with Keanu on top. Just bland.

The film looked too busy, too flashy, I could not concentrate on the fight scenes. I also had a hard time to suspend my disbelief. To see the traffic simply going on while there’s a bunch of dudes throwing each other into moving cars felt ridiculous. This plagues the entire franchise but this really took the cake. It felt like a video game.

Overall none of the fight scenes topped what I have seen before in the franchise, apart from the setting of the fights I don’t think there was anything truly memorable.

It was also predictable and trust me I usually can’t predict anything. I knew 100% that the black guy with dog would not get killed and that the dog would get saved by Wick. The final duel with pistols and light Morricone western music in the background felt completely out of place.

I also hoped to see more of the nunchucks. I also don’t understand the point of “the king” is he now moving freely after the high table wanted to kill him in the second movie? What’s up with the pointless short desert scenes?

I felt very detached by it all. I’m watching it again tonight, I rented it for 48 hours, lets see if a clear and rested head makes a difference.

Edited August 9, 2023 by WangYu

[WangYu]

So after my second watch I’m going to stick with a “decent” rating. It is well shot obviously, the choreos are well rehearsed and expertly executed. The film is long, why does it need to be this long? Is it just me or are blockbusters these days just super long by default? It is inevitable to have long stretches of boredom because the story is paper thin. When Wick met Koji the dialogue was just repetitive. At this point we were already told there was only 1 outcome for defying the Table which is death. We then jump to another scene with Akira and upon returning to the Wick/Koji conversation these guys were still saying the same thing. If you have that little to say then why keep it in the film?

And how arrogant and stuck up is this Winston character? He is supposed to be a good guy. He has just one facial expression which is the I’m completely drugged up look, he never laughs, his lines are boring and he literally never does anything useful except for banking on Wick whom he almost killed and John doesn’t even question it?! During the duel his arrogance peaked when Wick addressed him and Winston replies with “just shoot the guy”. I’d ram my fist in his face, the guy is doing nothing like literally the entire film. John does his fights. In Parabellum he doesn’t do anything to defend his hotel either.

Scott Adkins was wasted, the man is very talented but if this is the best Hollywood want to offer him then I hope he sticks to straight to dvd films. The entire scene of dialogue at the table with Donnie, Nobody, Killa and Wick just went on forever and what was the point? We knew a fight was going to break out anyway and it is a poor fight as well.

And who the hell is the dog guy? Why is he there? Nobody seems to know him, he is dressed as a bum and stands watching from a distance saving Wicks ass a couple of times to boost the price. What makes him so confident he can kill Baba Yega? Oh he saved my dog, he must be a good man! This was so predictable…

Thumbs up to Donnie Yen though. His moves are elegant and fast, he completely outshines the more workmanlike style of Keanu Reeves but why make him blind? There is an entire story here that is hinted at, nothing gets explained, the stakes never get raised with half written characters.

So to end on a positive note, my highlights:

The nunchucks scene. Probably the best action scenes I’ve seen this weapon, loved it.

The top down shooting with the incendiary shotgun thing, beautiful!

Despite the silliness of it all the moving traffic fight scene was very intense.

So make no mistake, I did enjoy the fight scenes (bar Berlin) but the universal praise this film got? Not merited imo.

[Agent U]

I agree with your overall assessment, @WangYu.

More than anything, I feel JW4 was very overrated, in a way that is almost hypocritical. Many of those who want to give JW4 a free pass on everything but the action (which imo is also pretty hit or miss in itself) are the same people that will watch a less hyped up actioner and say the action is good but then proceed to put it down for its low production values, flimsy plot, predictable story, lack of character development, stilted dialogue, repetitiveness, spotty acting, etc, all of which, save for production values, are very big problems in JW4.

A while back I've come across a 2-part article, which I felt was an interesting summary of how things changed between the original JW and JW4 (and obviously not for the better):

https://filmthreat.com/features/how-john-wick-chapter-4-undoes-the-baba-yaga-mythos/

https://filmthreat.com/features/how-john-wick-chapter-4-undoes-the-baba-yaga-mythos/2/

A final note of complete agreement with how unlikable Winston is. I feel that's just not put out there enough.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Agent U

[WangYu]

@Agent U

I was hesitant posting my opinion here because of the universal praise the film got. I have even seen it in lists as best of the decade or best of the Millennium so I was jittery to give my honest opinion. So i’m relieved I’m not getting flamed here.

The first film was very good in its simplicity btw. The whole boogeyman thing was fun, the entire idea of the main villains being afraid was a lot of fun imo. The fight scenes were way more impactful as well. There was a sense of anticipation that is missing from film 3 onwards.

I think what we got with the franchise is that is was very much an underground film that got more popular with each installment, like the fast and furious films it results in dumber movies and a lot more ticket sales

Edited August 10, 2023 by WangYu

[PandaPawPaw]

@WangYu Sod what anyone else thinks, you do you.

[ShaOW!linDude]

I think one of the reasons JW 4 is so long is that, while initially the idea was to do 4 & 5, Reeves & Stahelski sort of came to the determination to find a suitable end for the character. However, with the box office clout this movie drew in, a 5th may well be on the table, though that's still up in the air at this point.

[WangYu]

Doing a nr 5 after his demise is the worst thing they could do. Unless they have him fight hordes of the devils spawn in hell lol

 

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

I forgot to mention that during the promotion of jw4 Donnie Yen finally got to be a guest on a late night talk show, Jimmy Kimmel.  He had been on before with the cast of the Star Wars movie he was in. And he got to talk for about 10 seconds.  But this time he got his own spot.  I was very happy for him. The only other American talk show I could find him on looking through YouTube I think it was called The Talk.  It’s like a ripoff of The View I think.  I don’t know these shows.    I’m just glad that he’s a big enough name now where he doesn’t have to appear on a talk show for 60 year old ladies who don’t give a shit about him.  Maybe Donnie should mention that he’s 60 too.  but nobody would believe him.  
 

also @WangYu I think it was yu who mentioned your distaste for Ian Mcshane.  The part that i hated

Spoiler

in the final duel was just before the duel when he told John wick to “just have fun out there.”  Just have fun killing your friend?

 I have a twisted sense of humor, but that joke left a bad taste in my mouth.  

[WangYu]

@Jizzmaster Jerry yes that was a terrible line, this character is so out of reality, all he does is throw smug faces around and drink liquor. How Wick not even mentioned being shot in the 3rd film is just weird.

Edited August 14, 2023 by WangYu

[KUNG FU BOB]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:55 AM, WangYu said:

The nunchucks scene. Probably the best action scenes I’ve seen this weapon, loved it.

The top down shooting with the incendiary shotgun thing, beautiful!

Nunchaku usually get lame scenes in films, so I was thrilled with this.

Agreed!

On 8/10/2023 at 3:01 PM, WangYu said:

I was hesitant posting my opinion here because of the universal praise the film got. I have even seen it in lists as best of the decade or best of the Millennium so I was jittery to give my honest opinion. So i’m relieved I’m not getting flamed here.

@WangYu this is what this forum is for. Though I loved JW4 I found your thoughts about it very interesting, and certainly found merit in them. We love different opinions here and encourage respectful discussions/debates/and thoughts from our members. I'm glad you decided to post how you felt.

You are so right about the cars continuing to drive despite the fighting. LOL I was so caught up in the scene that it didn't cross my mind.

 

On 8/10/2023 at 3:22 PM, PandaPawPaw said:

@WangYu Sod what anyone else thinks, you do you.

There's only one of each of us so we may as well be ourselves.

 

On 8/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, ShaOW!linDude said:

I think one of the reasons JW 4 is so long is that, while initially the idea was to do 4 & 5, Reeves & Stahelski sort of came to the determination to find a suitable end for the character. However, with the box office clout this movie drew in, a 5th may well be on the table, though that's still up in the air at this point.

Good point "Dude".

I don't mind the current trend of longer running times in films JW4, DUNE, SPIDER-MAN: ACROSS THE MULTIVERSE, BEAU IS AFRAID, GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 3, THE BEATLES: GET BACK, M:I: DEAD RECKONING PART ONE, AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER, and THE RAID 2 were all great for me and never dragged. But there's a lot of stuff coming out where I agree it's often unwarranted (especially comedies). I felt like GLASS ONION dragged on and on, BULLET TRAIN felt like it went on forever, SCREAM VI stumbled along seemingly for an eternity, and was F9 nine hours long?

[Karlos]

 

 

[Karlos]

https://www.cbr.com/john-wick-chad-stahelski-keanu-reeves-chapter-5/

In a nutshell: does Keanu want to make John Wick 5?

Yeah...

[laagi]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:27 PM, Karlos said:

Yeah...

[WangYu]

They’re building films around set pieces? No wonder the plots and characters are so boring.

[Josh Baker]

1 hour ago, WangYu said:

They’re building films around set pieces? No wonder the plots and characters are so boring.

That's how they made Police Story as well tbf...

[Agent U]

On 9/5/2023 at 2:27 PM, Karlos said:

https://www.cbr.com/john-wick-chad-stahelski-keanu-reeves-chapter-5/

In a nutshell: does Keanu want to make John Wick 5?

Yeah...

https://www.ign.com/articles/keanu-reeves-wanted-john-wick-to-be-definitively-killed-at-the-end-of-john-wick-chapter-4

[laagi]

I just found out that Ma Dong-Seok aka Don Lee was cast in JW3 but had to turn down the offer because of conflicting schedule. 

I would've loved to see THIS! Chad bring the man in for JW5... yeah I know it's happening.

[laagi]

Full interview here: https://www.polygon.com/23759294/don-lee-ma-dong-seok-interview-roundup-train-to-busan-john-wick

[Agent U]

On 9/23/2023 at 9:33 PM, laagi said:

I just found out that Ma Dong-Seok aka Don Lee was cast in JW3 but had to turn down the offer because of conflicting schedule. 

I would've loved to see THIS! Chad bring the man in for JW5... yeah I know it's happening.

Wasn't he also the first choice for Caine in JW4?

[laagi]

26 minutes ago, Agent U said:

Wasn't he also the first choice for Caine in JW4?

There seems to be conflicting accounts online of whether it was 3 or 4. But given the character Donnie eventually played in JW4, I highly doubt that it was offered to Don Lee first. Guy's got a completely different set of skills! Unless the re-wrote the entire character.

If anything I would've seen Don Lee more as Killa given his mere physique

[Agent U]

39 minutes ago, laagi said:

There seems to be conflicting accounts online of whether it was 3 or 4. But given the character Donnie eventually played in JW4, I highly doubt that it was offered to Don Lee first. Guy's got a completely different set of skills! Unless the re-wrote the entire character.

If anything I would've seen Don Lee more as Killa given his mere physique

With the final versions of characters, he's certainly closer to Killa.

But Stahelski has stated he wanted Scott Adkins in a fat suit before he even knew what role he'd play in the story... (for real, Stahelski's wife must have moaned 'Adkins' in bed at some point in their lives... 😄)

And we know Caine changed drastically, since originally he'd wear mandarin collars and have a different name too.

Anyway, the Ma Dong-Seok as Caine rumour is two pages back in this topic, and comes from:

https://tw.news.yahoo.com/馬東石坦言片約滿檔-擦身演出-捍衛任務4-扼腕讓給甄子丹-040140404.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLnNlLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABoFvB5xLMuXDgzsmhfliS9DZKihFt-c3k1FonO0FfbxWdOEWjItFC3Y7isptSCOuwUabGnh-9oZAx1-RqZ0FGB1TNeSW2G9rB_8xHwZovi1Ga7dChtfn34nNXrlxYlFy3-ywiq2cmw_A6MEYfwOrPhWmg0dzvzVWL73qIvgTA5z&guccounter=2

[DiP]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:33 PM, laagi said:

I just found out that Ma Dong-Seok aka Don Lee was cast in JW3 but had to turn down the offer because of conflicting schedule.

 

On 9/23/2023 at 10:36 PM, laagi said:

Full interview here: https://www.polygon.com/23759294/don-lee-ma-dong-seok-interview-roundup-train-to-busan-john-wick

Perhaps Ma Dong-Seok got offered the part that Hiroyuki Sanada was supposed to play, which was eventually given to Mark Dacascos.

[laagi]

11 hours ago, DiP said:

Perhaps Ma Dong-Seok got offered the part that Hiroyuki Sanada was supposed to play, which was eventually given to Mark Dacascos.

That's exactly what I'm thinking too and while I do love Mark I probably preferred Don Lee. Or dare I say both of them going up against John Wick one way or another.

Thinking of which if they ever do make a part V they own it to themselves to bring in "fresh" blood from the east!

[PandaPawPaw]

On 9/17/2023 at 10:52 PM, Josh Baker said:

That's how they made Police Story as well tbf...

and it turned out fucking great!