John Wick Chapter 4 (2023) - Keanu Reeves, Lawrence Fishburne, Donnie Yen, Hiroyuki Sanada, Rina Sawayama

[One Armed Boxer]

19 minutes ago, starschwar said:

But it's almost certainly the best part 4 of anything - I struggle to think of anything that comes close.

Not sure if this will be controversial, but for me 'Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol' was a superior 4th entry in a franchise.  Action, pacing, stakes, acting (at least of the lead ) - for me it's almost the perfect action movie.

[starschwar]

9 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Not sure if this will be controversial, but for me 'Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol' was a superior 4th entry in a franchise.  Action, pacing, stakes, acting (at least of the lead ) - for me it's almost the perfect action movie.

That one is certainly up there.  The skyscraper sequence is the high point of that entire series for sure. 

[Agent U]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:15 PM, DiP said:

Apparently, there was another fight scene in the Berlin club scene with Caine fighting off Killa's men on another floor, the guy he's holding at gunpoint looks like Chidi. The scene didn't make it to the final cut so this makes me wonder what else was cut out, especially scenes with Caine.

 

The hair doesn't look like Chidi's. Likely just another of Killa's (overly inept btw) minions.

It has been confirmed the Berlin club scene was originally twice as long, so a lot there was indeed cut out:

https://www.slashfilm.com/1273188/john-wick-4s-club-scene-originally-longer-keanu-reeves-fighting-dog/

They should have just cut Tracker's screen time entirely really. And, need they cut more, the Marquis' as well. For real, had either of these characters been a folding screen instead and the movie would have been exactly the same.

Btw, Oliver Stone reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally disliked JW4:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/oliver-stone-calls-john-wick-144107168.html?

Edited June 21, 2023 by Agent U

[DiP]

I'm cool with Mr. Nobody but agree with the Marquis'. If there was other stuff to cut down as well then I would say the amount of gunplay (except the dragon breath shoot-out), which I think went on far too long.

[starschwar]

Oliver Stone is complaining about the lack of realism in the violence portrayed in John Wick.  The director of Natural Born Killers and the writer of Scarface is complaining about this. 

 

I can't tell what's satire anymore. 

[massa_yoda]

15 hours ago, starschwar said:

But it's almost certainly the best part 4 of anything - I struggle to think of anything that comes close?

Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home

[Colonel Mortimer]

2 minutes ago, massa_yoda said:

Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home

The Fuckin' Whales. That shit is my jam.

[starschwar]

That's a good on, sure.  But it has some rough edges.  The weird CGI hallucination when they time travel, some questionable effects regarding the whale tank, an utter disregard for any alteration of history, the Whale Probe is probably the most uninteresting villain in the series... I have a good time with The Voyage Home to be certain.  But Wick wipes the floor with it.  Apples and oranges, of course.

[BLfan]

I heard we are going to get a Director's cut with 10 to 15 mins of extra footage. 

[DiP]

1 hour ago, BLfan said:

I heard we are going to get a Director's cut with 10 to 15 mins of extra footage. 

You heard right. Stahelski is almost finished with it, as we speak. Funny thing is I ordered the Amazon Exclusive 4K edition of the movie just today.

https://comicbookmovie.com/action/john-wick/john-wick-chapter-4-director-chad-stahelski-talks-spoilers-keanu-reeves-that-big-duel-more-exclusive-a203808?s=09

[Agent U]

From previous reports, the original cut has 3h50 (!), so 55 minutes more. Adding 10-15 minutes back will still leave a lot out, and the door open in case they ever want to go back to that well with an Über-Reextended Edition or whatever.

I wonder if the director's cut will show the entire post-credit scene as well, since they've been so upfront about what was there originally

https://collider.com/john-wick-chapter-4-original-end-credit-scene-explained-chad-stahelski/

But likely not since they seem so proud of that ambiguous cliffhanger now.

This extended cut likely won't be marketed anytime soon anyway, lest it get in the way of sales for the current editions.

For anyone interested, this seems to have all the on-disc featurettes btw:

 

[Karlos]

A director's cut of JW4 coming so soon? 

Uh...OK.

Oliver Stone is a total nut nowadays but his rant on releasing the film in Russia was on the money.

[starschwar]

7 hours ago, Karlos said:

A director's cut of JW4 coming so soon?

 

I wonder what the record is for fastest release of a DC?  I remember Watchmen getting a Director's Cut the same day the theatrical cut hit home media, but got an even longer version later.

 

If you really want to split hairs and remove the term "director's cut" from conversation, George Lucas was already altering Attack of the Clones before home video.  It had three different theatrical cuts during its original run - none of which are the same as what made it to home media.

Edited June 21, 2023 by starschwar

[Karlos]

I'm tempted to say Watchmen or maybe Batman v Superman?

[AlbertV]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:16 PM, starschwar said:

Oliver Stone is complaining about the lack of realism in the violence portrayed in John Wick.  The director of Natural Born Killers and the writer of Scarface is complaining about this. 

 

I can't tell what's satire anymore. 

And yet his son Sean starred and co-wrote in the WTF insanity called "Fury of the Fist and the Golden Fleece" (which I liked...even spoofs the hilarious death scene from Turkey's "Karate Girl"). Go figure!

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

Probably my favorite of the series.  Part 1 I kinda liked.  I think the night club attempted assassination is the best action scene of all time in an American movie.  Part 2 I loved.  And part 3 felt like overkill.   But part 4 felt fresh, for awhile at least.  The action does get monotonous like part 3.  It’s a long movie.  169 minutes.  The sets are stunningly beautiful.  I was not surprised this was a 90 mil movie compared to 20 mil for part 1.  That 90 mil shows up on screen.  They didn’t scrimp.  The cgi isn’t too overdone.  I’d rather have no cgi, but I take what I can get these days.  Scott Adkins was great.  Not a fan of fat suits.  I always get the feeling that the people making the movie think they are the funniest people in the world when they put someone in a fat suit.  But seeing a bloated guy kick ass was a nice change of pace.  Marko Zaror is as intimidating as ever.  I could nitpick and say I wish he had more to do, but he’s great.  Can’t complain too much, because Donnie Yen is the one who gets the great the great role here.  And the guy with the dog.  I would have cut his part down and given more to Zaror.  The final showdown is brilliant.  I hope they end the series here because this is a great note to go out on.  But if there’s a part 5 I’ll watch it.  

[DarthKato]

Finally watched it recently and I loved it.  It was totally worth the agonizing wait, while trying to avoid spoilers. I cannot think of a single thing that I disliked about it. Truely a masterpiece of action cinema. 5/5 

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

Reading through some of the comments here I think Agent U has a good point that there’s no good one on one fights in these movies.  Keanu vs Common, it’s well directed, but I don’t think anyone would be impressed with their martial arts skills.  Keanu vs Mark Dacoscas.  I was underwhelmed.  Never liked Keanu as an actor.  He’s not horrible, and he’s helped by being in some great movies.  And his fighting skills, at least he’s gotten better since The Matrix.  Can’t stand that movie, because Keanu looked so artificial with his fighting.  
 

Anyways..  I’ve always wondered, would John Cusack have been a better John Wick?  Is he a better actor?  Yes.  Is he a better fighter?  I think so.  Would he be a better John Wick?  I’m not so sure.  I think so, but not super confident about it.  Cusack seems to have given up on making good movies, but right before the first John Wick he was still giving it his full effort.  Any thoughts?  Am I crazy for not suggesting Scott Adkins or Jai White for the role?  Would Cusack have been a big enough name to put butts in the seats?  And could he be more badass than Keanu Reeves?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Jizzmaster Jerry

[One Armed Boxer]

5 hours ago, Jizzmaster Jerry said:

Anyways..  I’ve always wondered, would John Cusack have been a better John Wick?  Is he a better actor?  Yes.  Is he a better fighter?  I think so.  Would he be a better John Wick?  I’m not so sure.  I think so, but not super confident about it.  Cusack seems to have given up on making good movies, but right before the first John Wick he was still giving it his full effort.  Any thoughts?

We already got Cusack in an alternative universe John Wick role thanks to 'Grosse Pointe Blank'.

 

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

2 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

We already got Cusack in an alternative universe John Wick role thanks to 'Grosse Pointe Blank'.

 

If you like that one check out War Inc which feels like a sequel to Grosse Pointe Blank.  Cusack is hilarious and looks very competent fighting.  Good movie but ruined by Hilary Duff.  

So would Cusack not be as good/fresh as Keanu because he’s played the role of assassin a couple times before?  I don’t think so.  He’s played an assassin in comedies.  But he would be deadly serious as John Wick.  And I don’t think people would be reminded of him being a funny assassin.  

Edited July 15, 2023 by Jizzmaster Jerry

[Agent U]

14 hours ago, Jizzmaster Jerry said:

Reading through some of the comments here I think Agent U has a good point that there’s no good one on one fights in these movies. 

I must say, I was a bit confused reading this all of a sudden. I shared my thoughts on the movies almost right after watching them, but if I had to look back on them now I'd probably not make even half of those points. Considering it's only been a few months it's almost striking how little I remember of the JW movies. I usually have a good memory, but in this case I seem to only recall the main events of each movie.

 

14 hours ago, Jizzmaster Jerry said:

Anyways..  I’ve always wondered, would John Cusack have been a better John Wick?  Is he a better actor?  Yes.  Is he a better fighter?  I think so.  Would he be a better John Wick?  I’m not so sure.  I think so, but not super confident about it.  Cusack seems to have given up on making good movies, but right before the first John Wick he was still giving it his full effort.  Any thoughts?  Am I crazy for not suggesting Scott Adkins or Jai White for the role?  Would Cusack have been a big enough name to put butts in the seats?  And could he be more badass than Keanu Reeves?

I hadn't heard of John Cusack in years. But he used to be in pretty good stuff.

At the time of John Wick, Keanu Reeves had had a significant fall from grace himself, so his name wasn't exactly putting all that many butts in seats anymore. John Wick was reportedly even almost released DTV, and although the movie did well in theatres it seems like its huge success in home sales was also crucial in turning it into the franchise it is today.

It's an interesting question, but hard to tell. It's difficult to separate John Wick from Keanu Reeves and, despite his shortcomings, he certainly is a big part of the series success.

Acting would of course be far better with Cusack (or virtually everyone, since Keanu's acting is just downhill after the first movie and by JW4 he sounds like he's in a speech therapy session). I haven't seen much of Cusack's fighting tbh, but Keanu is passable at best (over the course of four movies I don't think he displays more than half a dozen techniques).

I also feel Cusack has more of a gloomy appearance and vibe, which would better fit the character, at least how he was originally.

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

I think Keanu has better Judo skills for sure.  But hand and feet techniques it’s Cusack all the way.  Wouldn’t it be nice to see John Wick  throw a decent kick?  And Cusack may have some great judo and jujitsu, I have no idea.   He definitely trains martial arts for a long time.   And maybe Keanu is/was better looking, but I’m not the best judge of that.  But in pretty much all areas I’m going with Cusack.  I bet he can even drive a stick.  And definitely I agree that Cusack could make that character really dark.  In terms of acting there’s no comparison between the two.  
 

I should probably mention that I do really like the John Wick movies.  And Keanu’s good.  But he just has too much to do in these movies.  He has a great work ethic, but he’s a pretty sloppy fighter.  And that’s a problem when you have him going up against a lot of great fighters.  
 

and I know I’m stating the obvious here, but how about Denzel as John Wick?  His fighting skills seem good enough, and as an actor he’s as good as it gets.  

Edited July 16, 2023 by Jizzmaster Jerry

[Agent U]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:45 AM, Jizzmaster Jerry said:

and I know I’m stating the obvious here, but how about Denzel as John Wick?  His fighting skills seem good enough, and as an actor he’s as good as it gets.  

Isn't that basically what 'The Equalizer' is though?

[LoBo]

Yes, The Equalizer movies are basically like a black version of the John Wick movies. I like both movie series. 

[Jizzmaster Jerry]

Yeah.  We could have had Denzel as John Wick if Antoine Fuquia was the director.  He also looked good in Book of Eli and the scene in Training Day where he ragdolls Ethan Hawke. 
 

Funny I just watched Equalizer 2.  Was really disappointed in E2 because in E1 the bad guy was amazing but he gets killed too easily.  They should have let him live so he could return in future sequels.  And in E2 they got a great actor to play the bad guy, but they didn’t give him a good character.  It was decent but I expected more.  Then I watched Robin B Hood the same night.  Hated this spastic piece of crap.  Couldn’t enjoy it for more than 5 minutes at a time.  Why didn’t Yuen Biao have Louis Koo’s role?  I HATED it.  Then I started thinking about E2, and I immediately changed my mind without even watching it, because Rob B Hood was so bad.  E2 was damn good!  

Edited July 20, 2023 by Jizzmaster Jerry