Vanguard (2019)

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

3 hours ago, laagi said:

I wouldn't say HK cinema is dead. There's some great movies out there just not MA or Action related. To be honest I'm glad Donnie Yen is still around and delivering some of the goods.

I can't help but feel that HK Action or MA cinema didn't really have any plans past the Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, Donnie Yen etc. era. They were so busy to pump out movies it almost seemed endless. There seemed to be some attempts to look for new talent. Jacky Wu or Max Zhang come to mind. But while them and others did have some good movies, it was never something stable.

My biggest disappointment is with the older guys mentioned above. While I'm aware they have no obligation whatsoever their love for the genre should have led them to look and especially help promote new talent. Imagine the wonders that could be produced with the right talent in front and behind the camera.

Well, it is. There's still mainland China films, but that's not the same. 

Jackie has gone to great lengths to find and cultivate fresh talents as far back as the late 90's and onwards. Jet is a mainlander and has no allegiance towards HK as such and both of them obviously made their choice, like there was much of one to make. 

Donnie toiled away for so many decades never really making it, that when he finally did in the mid naughts, I'm sure he felt the focus should rightfully be on him... can't blame him. Don't know where his head is at now regarding doing more action, he's getting up there. But again, he's an American, so no special fellowship to HK over Mainland China I would think and then there's his renownd ego. 

You can't put it on them to ressurect a dead cinema climate. HK cinema is over, that's just the way it is. And with this last year and just the changes in media consumption in general, the state of "cinema" as a concept is pretty up in the air the world over.

I'm sure martial arts and action cinema will stick around in some form, but us who grew up with the HK cinema of the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in particular... we were witness to something unique and spectacular that will never be replicated. So to those who sit around and wait for HK cinma to come back or revive itself in some form, that ain't happening. Go backwards instead and dig into to the treasure trove of the past. There's plenty of good stuff to find there.

[36tripsofdeath]

On 10/15/2020 at 5:53 AM, DiP said:

Filmmakers these days are keeping it economical and safer by employing CGI. Not what we as fans crave for but given the circumstances nowadays contra 20 years ago, it's understandable. I'd say filmmakers are taking little risks now due to politics.

As for Jackie, I've always said this since the term "junk" became the norm in his movies... He should stick to dramatic roles, AND go back to directing/action directing.

I agree that Jackie should do more dramatic roles. I also think that he should direct more movies, as with his upcoming English language musical dramedy The Diary.

I also think that Jackie should star in more American movies. Jackie's acting career is pretty much dead in China but in the U.S., he will be popular forever.

I saw that with The Foreigner. At that point, Jackie hadn't had an American live action feature for seven years but he was invited onto all of the talk shows and welcomed.back with open arms..When Jackie's second autobiography came out in the U.S., They invited him onto their shows.

Post Who am I?, I have only liked two of Jackie's Chinese films but I have liked most of his American films. I think that Jackie's future is in starring in American films and directing films of his own.

Edited October 17, 2020 by 36tripsofdeath

[DiP]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:56 PM, D1 Ma said:

MA cinema faces the same problems all over the world.

HK is dead.

Thailand is dead, too. Dan Chupong hasn't made anything since Rittikrai's death. Jeeja had a couple of minor bits. Mike B disapeared into oblivion and even Jaa has only supporting roles in international productions

 South Korea hasn't made anything decent in years except for Revenger

 Indonesia can still deliver but it mostly gore that makes their movies stand out, not the intricate choreo or insane moves

In the States Johnny Young Bosch is doing voice overs, Eric Jacobus is busy doing motion capture for video games

 We have some low budget flicks popping out here and there, but nothing really special

 Heck, I can't even name a single up and coming martial artist who can be considered a New Hope of the genre

The only guy who still delivers(more or less) is Adkins, but he's not getting any younger and I'm afraid his best fights are in the past. The same goes for Donnie. (BTW, last week I re-watched a couple of his earlier flicks and man, he was fast and so agile in his prime! I kinda forgot about that over the years and was pleasantly surprised)

Not so much in lack in numbers when it comes to total amount of productions being churn out but more with the choices the actors are taking. Sticking to your guns all the time won't work in the long run, as an actor you'll eventually have to level up to stand out. Martial arts actors may at the beginning stick to their comfort zone until the point when they will realize that trying out different kind of movies will become an option while they're at it. Also, most of the points you've stated are all subjective.

[DiP]

HK cinema may be dead but I'd say martial arts/fight action movies are still going. Donnie, Reeves, Uwais, Adkins, Cruise... Not alot but enough to keep you interested in what's currently being made.

[Drunken Monk]

21 hours ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Go backwards instead and dig into to the treasure trove of the past. There's plenty of good stuff to find there.

This is massively important. I’ve been a fan of martial arts cinema for twenty years and, honestly, I’ve barely scratched the surface.

[thekfc]

With HK cinema, what have happened is that there has been a shift in the genre. It used to be Martial Arts, Kung Fu & (hardcore) action but now it is drama, comedy, romance, erotic, crime drama/thriller, etc,. Take a look at the last 30 years & what were the top movies? Once in a while we may get a martial arts movie.

After the 1997 turnover which opens up the mainland market, there was also a shift in audience & that created a problem with censorship which had an effect on the quality of the movies being made.

Now with most of the production money coming from the mainland, these companies supplying the money want these movies to satisfy certain demography & audience.

The current movies makers have to follow the money trail/goes where the money is….if they don’t then no one will bankroll their movies.

I have get a few Chinese movies channels as well as a few Asian VOD platforms and there are some pretty good stuff on there but a lot of the contents do not make it outside of these platforms/channels and these features/movies are exclusives.

On a side note, there have been a lot of movies being presented in HD/re-mastered that also do not make it out of the platform/region.

[One Armed Boxer]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:01 PM, 36tripsofdeath said:

In conclusion, better to me than Kung Fu Yoga but that means very little.

3/10.

Just got through watching it and have to agree, it’s a 3/10. Barely more tolerable than ‘Kung Fu Yoga’. I gave it the full review treatment over at COF -

https://cityonfire.com/vanguard-2020-review-jackie-chan-stanley-tong/

[laagi]

@One Armed Boxer Great review! I (unfortunately) can wholeheartedly agree with everything. At the beginning after the very first scene kicks off I was actually thinking this wouldn't be as bad. The real problem here is not the action or the overuse of CGI. Although the latter is really annoying to say the least. Especially because it literally detracts from handmande action every f*ing time.

The problem is the acting. It's just terrible! Why they went for an "international" touch and decided to have most of the cast speak english (once again), while they are anything but stable with the language is beyond me. You can tell from the get go they are having such a hard time to speak one sentence with the accompanying emotion it's just laughable. At times I felt like I was watching a bunch of ventriloquist dummies; no offense.

Stop this nonsense to always include english if you don't have the actors to deliver it properly, period! Also some of the one liners are borderline funny. One of the very first english sentences was something like " it looks like he finally slithered out of his cave". Who the hell is talking like that!?

On top of that you get the cringe worthy comedy that misses most of the time rather than land. I'm not sure how well the cast would have handled the acting if they could have just used their native tongue but for what it's worth the acting is at least to me the real trainwreck here. Of what could have been an otherwise fairly entertaining no-brainer. God just thinking of Fareeda (Xu Ruo Han; probably the worst of them all) yelling Charlie, Charlie over and over again gives me the creeps!

Last but not least is the patriotic undertone, clearly there to cuddle up to chinese authorities. Captain China? C'mon! Or the ongoing praise for the local police forces in Dubai. Why?

In closing the moment you switch your brain on this is already a dumpster fire. Jackie Chan was clearly (just) used as the poster boy.

It's a sad sight and at the same time teaches you that some things which may have worked 30-40 years ago may at the very least be outdated nowadays.

[thehangman]

Saw it yesterday,not very impressed to much crap CGI,jackie wasnt really in it that much,best thing in it was the chinese girl in the bikini lol

Id rather jackie do more dramatic stuff like the Foreigner and shinjuku.

[JackieRome]

10 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said:

Just got through watching it and have to agree, it’s a 3/10. Barely more tolerable than ‘Kung Fu Yoga’. I gave it the full review treatment over at COF -

https://cityonfire.com/vanguard-2020-review-jackie-chan-stanley-tong/

Hi, I was reading it and I found it very comprehensive. I would never have the courage to see it, it is the kind of film that you don't need to see it in its entirety to realize it's crap. Some naively think that Jackie still has particular choreographic skills and techniques. As a lover of his cinema I must confirm his senility and his irreversible artistic age. Unlike other actors of his caliber, he does not know how to manage in terms of quality and only knows how to make bad films that speak to a simpler and more unpretentious audience. That gets it right. The genius of the 1980s has been missing for years.

[Qing Long]

I'm just slightly more lenient than the One Armed Boxer:

https://asianfilmstrike.com/2020/11/16/vanguard-2020-review/

[sym8]

This was complete s..t,awful acting,terrible action,dumb story and constant use of bad cgi,I don’t know how much of a say Jackie had on the action but surely he could see that this doesn’t cut it.They should go back into the archives and look at what they did with no budget or cgi because it was far superior to this mess.I know Jackie can’t do the action because of Father Time but god he must still have it in him to choreography other people in some decent action and the same goes for Stanley Tong👎👎👎👎👎👎

[Yihetuan]

Even more depressing is the median age of posters on this forum and other forums that revolve around kung fu film, HK action movies, Asian action films in general. Most are middle aged or even older -- those who lived through the "golden years" of HK action cinema/martial arts cinema. I rarely encounter Gen Z or even X that are enthusiasts of this genre of film. I fear with the dearth of good, let alone even decent martial arts movies, the future looks bleak indeed. Hard to believe that The Raid will be almost a decade old next year!

[Drunken Monk]

I watched Vanguard last night and by views echo others’ for the most part. One thing I will say is that the film isn’t egregiously bad. What makes it bad, in my eyes, is that it’s just so “meh.” There’s no excitement and considering the film is just four big action sequences, there should be. The action is redundant and, worst of all, all the punches and kicks look so soft! No one has any power at all. Sue Jackie didn’t choreograph this one.

And then there’s the biggest crime the film commits: CGI. Absolutely everything in this film is CGI. Explosions, stunts, animals, water and most laughable, car chases. It’s appalling. 
With all this said, the film is worth one watch. I liked some of it. And by that I mean some of the action sequences are acceptable.

But Yep, this is another nail in Jackie’s coffin. He needs to sit back and stop making movies or get in the director’s chair and stay there.

[D1 Ma]

The only two good things about this movie is that Jackie finally gives way to younger actors. I didn't mind him having just a small part of a mentor, I thought it was perfect for him. I don't expect much of 66yrs old legend, so let him just be there and support the new blood. The second was that African encounter with the baddies. As I mentioned before it's too childish for my tastes, but it had some bits of originality and decent pacing. Not a great sequence, but not too bad.

The rest was just atrocious. I mean, I thought it was beyond bad. I was sitting through that crapfest and couldn't stop thinking that the same two guys responsible for this mess, gave us Rumble in the Bronx  and Police Story 3 and 4! What happened to them????!!! The action was so bland and generic, shootouts boring and the "car" chase was disastrous. ( I even thought to myself that probably Stanley is afraid to use real cars after accidentally  crashing that supercar in China Strike Force)

 Anyway, it's hard to believe but it's true - it's worse than Kung Fu Yoga

PS And don't get me started on Chinese nationalism.

Captain China is mightier that Captain America!

My wife is Chinese - She must be beautiful - Absolutely!

[clanarchy]

3/10 was too kind...

I have never ever had to fast forward through my initial watch of a Jackie movie prior to this....After 30mins I was done, flicked through the rest stopping to laugh at the beyond shit CGI and even spat my coffee out when the gold CGI cars came out at the end....terrible.....1/10 never to be seen again...lol

[AlbertV]

I watched it and the opening fight IMO was the film's only redeeming factor. I was hoping we would see more fights like and I felt Jackie had good intentions to bring in some "new blood" but once he gets involved with the action in Africa it turned into a full on Jackie movie and I felt he should have taken a back seat to highlight the newcomers more. I wish they gave Brahim Achabbakhe more to do as well. I gave it a D+...good intentions and the opening was good but that was it...as @Drunken Monk said it just felt meh.

[Koravec]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:29 AM, Yihetuan said:

Even more depressing is the median age of posters on this forum and other forums that revolve around kung fu film, HK action movies, Asian action films in general. Most are middle aged or even older -- those who lived through the "golden years" of HK action cinema/martial arts cinema. I rarely encounter Gen Z or even X that are enthusiasts of this genre of film. I fear with the dearth of good, let alone even decent martial arts movies, the future looks bleak indeed. Hard to believe that The Raid will be almost a decade old next year!

I mean I geuss I get what your saying, but go look at the amount of views fight clips of ma movies have on youtube (I havent done this in half a decade or so and can still probably guarantee the viewcounts will be impressive)

[laagi]

1 hour ago, Koravec said:

I mean I geuss I get what your saying, but go look at the amount of views fight clips of ma movies have on youtube (I havent done this in half a decade or so and can still probably guarantee the viewcounts will be impressive)

That's probably because most are bored out of their f*cking mind by now But yeah I get what you're saying.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:42 PM, Koravec said:

I mean I geuss I get what your saying, but go look at the amount of views fight clips of ma movies have on youtube (I havent done this in half a decade or so and can still probably guarantee the viewcounts will be impressive)

Well, here is another thing. Movies like Atomic Blonde and of course John Wick deliver tons of martial arts thrills with great actors and a scripts and big budgets. Kind of hard to get my 20 year old to watch some Chinese nationalist nonsense (and he's half Chinese) when he can see Kung Fu masters knocked out on youtube on a daily basis. That being said, he just re-watched Kung Fu Hustle. If you make something good, they will come. He's not a martial arts fan, but he knows who Donnie Yen and Jackie Chan is, and that is from seeing the new stuff. But Jackie needs to hang it up. His best movies are the American and British productions, most likely because let's be honest, the scripts and directors tend to be better. Sorry, there's only so many Johnnie To's, and some of the silly stuff in HK and Mainland films just won't work with International audiences, and I'm not just talking about cheap CGI. If some young kid with multi language skills and martial arts skills comes around, like Sima Liu, and Shang Chi breaks big, that might be the savior. Let's hope so for the genre.

[PandaPawPaw]

WHAT A SHIT FILM! I struggled to finish it.

Seriously it's bloody awful! So much bad green screen/CGI. Boring story, characters and fights. Dull Villains.

The bit with the girl frolicking with the Tiger was some of the dumbest shit!

JC just looks old and seemed like he was just there because of the star power.

It also has the yukky Chinese money feel to it. Like it's been made just to make money with no effort to make it actually good!

There's one point that some undercranking during a car chase has been used which looked fucking ridiculous!

I hated it!