Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021) - Simu Liu, Tony Leung Chiu-Wai, Awkwafina

[Drunken Monk]

Awkwafina shows some range in the film. While she's loud and in-your-face at times, she also gives the character a lot of heart and, at times, even subtlety. She's not nearly as bad as I thought she might be.

If you want to see her at her most pleasant, I'd recommend the movie, The Farewell.

[Majin Android]

37 minutes ago, Drunken Monk said:

Awkwafina shows some range in the film. While she's loud and in-your-face at times, she also gives the character a lot of heart and, at times, even subtlety. She's not nearly as bad as I thought she might be.

If you want to see her at her most pleasant, I'd recommend the movie, The Farewell.

I’ve seen her in commercials and interviews (nothing else) and was bracing myself in case she was too much but she was serviceable/likable in this film. Realistic in a sense that yeah I can see a normal person reacting like this if presented with these situations.

Just looked up The Farewell, omg that movie sounds so sad. I’ll look into seeing this. Thanks for the recommendation.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Majin Android

[AlbertV]

OMG this is funny. Before he became both an actor and Shang-Chi, Simu Liu appeared in stock photos used for various companies.

[SamSeed]

I enjoyed this today, but that's all. I liked it, the fight scenes were the best part (my heart ached thinking about Brad Allen as I was watching). Funny how two of the best fight scenes of the year are both on buses (this and Bob Odenkirk in Nobody). Also the fight on the scaffolding reminded me of Jackie in Rush Hour 2.

But aside from the action? Meh. I wasn't hooked, and I have to say that I am having massive Marvel fatigue. I'm getting to the point where I just don't care any more. There's only so many variations on the same formula, and also having four movies released in a year is way too many. Remember when a new Marvel film was an event? Now it's just 'Oh, guess I have to see the latest instalment'. The CGI didn't help. Shang Chi vs his father? I was invested in that, I cared. Shang Chi vs huge CGI monsters? They may as well have been fighting huge blobs for the amount of pathos or drama it generated.

Edited September 8, 2021 by SamSeed

[JackieRome]

I love Brad Allan and I'm sorry that big names in Asian cinema get mixed up in these American CGI meatballs and a few cool stuff. Add also that ... their films have become an assembly line, with very few interesting aspects. Almost always the same stories (especially those that talk about origins) and the same unbearable way of using the CGI. Black Widow was embarrassing. Instead of hiring a real martial artist, they hired an American with a few Asian relatives in the family and the charisma of a sloth.

[wmcguire18]

The thing is, and again this was a good movie on its own terms, it is so clear that having great fights was NOT a priority for the film, but getting to the big effects laden finale was. The point of the movie was to get Shang Chi to where he's just another super hero, shooting a laser out of his hands and letting the effects do the work. That's why the movie was SHANG CHI AND THE LEGEND OF THE TEN RINGS and not SHANG CHI: MASTER OF KUNG FU. They didn't care about the kung fu.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

Heard on a podcast that the first half was better because it was all martial arts while the 2nd half went crazy with the cgi even comparing it to the great wall with Matt damon. 

[Drunken Monk]

49 minutes ago, wmcguire18 said:

They didn't care about the kung fu.

No offense, but I think that’s bollocks. All you have to do is follow one of the members of the film’s action team on Instagram to know how much they cared about the fight scenes. They literally hired the cream of the crop to ensure the action looked as good as it could. Otherwise, why else would they have Brad Allan, Andy Cheng, Christopher Cowan and countless others on board?

Yes, they had to deliver a grand, CGI filled ending. Because that’s the Disney template. But I think it’s quite obvious that they invested a lot into the fight sequences. I mean, isn’t that what everyone’s raving about? That the action is head and shoulders above typical Marvel stuff?

At its core, Shang-Chi is a kung fu film. A modern interpretation, sure. But a kung fu film, nonetheless. 

[wmcguire18]

On 9/9/2021 at 8:52 AM, Drunken Monk said:

No offense, but I think that’s bollocks. All you have to do is follow one of the members of the film’s action team on Instagram to know how much they cared about the fight scenes. They literally hired the cream of the crop to ensure the action looked as good as it could. Otherwise, why else would they have Brad Allan, Andy Cheng, Christopher Cowan and countless others on board?

Yes, they had to deliver a grand, CGI filled ending. Because that’s the Disney template. But I think it’s quite obvious that they invested a lot into the fight sequences. I mean, isn’t that what everyone’s raving about? That the action is head and shoulders above typical Marvel stuff?

At its core, Shang-Chi is a kung fu film. A modern interpretation, sure. But a kung fu film, nonetheless. 

Look at the "Deathdealer" character: he torments Shang as a boy/adolescent, Shang fights him to a near standstill in Macau, but it gets interrupted. The form of a kung fu movie would dictate that Shang learns a new style or refines his technique or trains really hard and at the end-- he beats him.

How does Deathdealer actually go out?

Spoiler

 

He gets his cartoon soul ripped out by a cartoon dragon that flew out of a giant cartoon wall that the bad guy was shooting with a cartoon laser.

Because it's not a movie about kung fu-- it's a movie about special effects. A movie about kung fu would build to a big finale with a lot of intricate kung fu fights-- this movie doesn't do that, because it's not about kung fu. 

I don't know what general audiences are "raving about" as I said in my review, the big buzz I heard coming out of the theater was for how the post credits scene sets up DR. STRANGE 2 more than anything in this actual film, but the fights in this film felt very much like the fights in American Jackie Chan pictures-- they were technically fine but lacked grit and danger. I think the most notable thing about the three kung fu fights was how shamelessly the last one ripped off a much better scene and fight in SKYFALL.

The theme of the movie was "believe in yourself and don't be afraid to stand out and you'll be a hero" which is fine, and when Shang did that, it wasn't through kung fu-- it was taking the giant super power death rings off of his father so he could shoot lasers out of them. The movie is telling you what it thinks is important-- take it at its word.

[Drunken Monk]

You and I obviously have very different opinions on what a kung fu movie can be. You seem to have a very strict formula in your head. If that’s the case, so be it.

But to each his own.

For those that have seen the film…

Spoiler

Do you think Shang Chi will have the rings in future movies? Wong seems to be the only who’ll hang onto them for the time being but, without them, is Shang Chi really on the same level as some other heroes?

 

[Majin Android]

18 hours ago, Drunken Monk said:

For those that have seen the film…

  Hide contents

Do you think Shang Chi will have the rings in future movies? Wong seems to be the only who’ll hang onto them for the time being but, without them, is Shang Chi really on the same level as some other heroes?

 

SPOILERS

Spoiler

it'd be cool if he learned to adapt without them and busted em out when things got too heavy

i was hoping his sister would've gotten half the set

 

[thundered mantis]

For those of you who have already seen it. How would you rate the physical action? The bits I´ven seen on the trailers and snippets look like, say, Jackie´s Rob B Hood or New Police Story fights. Nice to watch, nicely done, but no power at all on the moves. I like those fights, don´t misjudge me, but it´s just rythmic choreo with no fighting intensity on it. Not comparing with Donnie´s bits, but the action I´ve seen on the trailers seems quite worse than other Hollywood productions, of the past 20 years, like say, Troy, Bourne Ultimatum, Casino Royale, Eastern Promises, The Watchmen...

Did the trailers misled me? Does it contains any scene better than the above mentioned?

 

[Majin Android]

21 minutes ago, thundered mantis said:

Troy, Bourne Ultimatum, Casino Royale, Eastern Promises, The Watchmen...

Did the trailers misled me? Does it contains any scene better than the above mentioned?

 

the fights in Shang-Chi are serviceable to the plot/characters of the film and the lighter pg-13 vibe they were going for.

there have been harder edged pg-13 fights but the films you mentioned above I believe are aiming for something harder.

that being said i don't think you will find what you are looking for in Shang-Chi

[thundered mantis]

1 hour ago, Majin Android said:

the fights in Shang-Chi are serviceable to the plot/characters of the film and the lighter pg-13 vibe they were going for.

there have been harder edged pg-13 fights but the films you mentioned above I believe are aiming for something harder.

that being said i don't think you will find what you are looking for in Shang-Chi

I understand what you mean, fair enough. Will still watch it, of course

[Drunken Monk]

2 hours ago, thundered mantis said:

For those of you who have already seen it. How would you rate the physical action? The bits I´ven seen on the trailers and snippets look like, say, Jackie´s Rob B Hood or New Police Story fights. Nice to watch, nicely done, but no power at all on the moves. I like those fights, don´t misjudge me, but it´s just rythmic choreo with no fighting intensity on it. Not comparing with Donnie´s bits, but the action I´ve seen on the trailers seems quite worse than other Hollywood productions, of the past 20 years, like say, Troy, Bourne Ultimatum, Casino Royale, Eastern Promises, The Watchmen...

Did the trailers misled me? Does it contains any scene better than the above mentioned?

 

The trailers didn’t mislead you. There’s definitely a preference for style over power when it comes to this film. It’s not nearly as brutal as some of the films you’ve mentioned. Whether it’s better is personal opinion. I’d take Shang-Chi’s action over a number of the films you mentioned but I’m sure others might like their fight scenes a bit edgier or scrappy. It’s definitely more Jackie Chan than it is Eastern Promises.

[Super Ninja]

Shang-Chi reached a new level for Hollywood MA action and is undoubtedly one of the best MCU films so far; I hope Hollywood took notes from Andy Cheng. Seeing MA action in a Hollywood movie without a shitload of cuts is as refreshing and surprising as hearing so many dialogues in Mandarin. Add Chinese director and a Chinese lead, and you get what might turn out to be an important movie. Shang-Chi was hugely enjoyable, and not just for seeing Michelle Yeoh in a classic kung fu fight, Tony Leung in his first Hollywood movie, Yuen Wah getting a fair amount of screen time, and Andy Le doing what he does best as Death Dealer. It is a fun action adventure romp that feels like a wuxia movie at times, filled with damn good action delivering Tai Chi, MMA, rope-dart and more, and featuring some outstanding camerawork. And yes, I also enjoyed the CGI finale, it actually rounds up the movie quite well. I have to mention Ben Kingsley who almost stole the show here for me, blabbering about the original Planet of the Apes, had me LMAO.

Was very nice of them to dedicate the movie to Brad Allan.

[AlbertV]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:06 AM, Super Ninja said:

I hope Hollywood took notes from Andy Cheng. 

Was very nice of them to dedicate the movie to Brad Allan.

Andy Cheng was also the one who choreographed the following Hollywood fights:

• Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson vs. Ernie Reyes Jr. in The Rundown (2003)
• Robert Pattinson vs. Cam Gigandet in Twilight (2008)

He also was the choreographer and one of the villains of Isaac Florentine's U.S. Seals II in 2001.

Hollywood took some, but after Shang-Chi, they definitely will need to take notice now. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by AlbertV

[DrNgor]

35 minutes ago, AlbertV said:

Andy Cheng was also the one who choreographed the following Hollywood fights:

• Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson vs. Ernie Reyes Jr. in The Rundown (2003)
• Robert Pattinson vs. Cam Gigandet in Twilight (2008)

He also was the choreographer and one of the villains of Isaac Florentine's U.S. Seals II in 2001.

Catherine Hardwicke must have liked Andy Cheng, because they worked together on Red Riding Hood as well.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Of course, I saw this in the theater. Opening day, I get the theater entirely to myself (the second biggest theater in the building). I had to tell them to start the film, but at least they skipped the trailers.  I love the feeling of having the entire place to myself.  You can choose any seat, change seats, wander around, yell at the screen, scratch yourself, flatulate without fear and if you have popcorn throw it at the screen. 

This movie is nothing like the comic books. I have read the first Omnibus of the 1970s comic books and about half of the second and there is very little from that other than the character's name, the fact he has a sister and Razor Fist (actually glad he is here).  In the comic book, Fu Manchu is his father.  Since Fu Manchu is not PC (I would have loved to write his character in here though), they did not use him.  His sister is evil in the comic books, not here.  Razor Fist actually has a blade for each hand in the comic book (one razor fist here which actually is an improvement, in the comic book I kept wondering: How does Razor Fist use the restroom?). Though it is cool that in the movie he has his own Razor Fist car. 

There are countless differences between the comics and the movie so it is best not even to go too much over it. 

In the movie: Shang-Chi is the son of Xu Wenwu (Tony Leung -- remember he is not the only Tony Leung in HK/Chinese cinema; Tony Leung Ka-Fai would be the other one, watch Centre Stage (1992) ) who taught him Kung Fu (a lot of wushu in this film, I was hoping for more styles) at an early age -- right after his mother died. His mother was the rock that kept Xu on the good side. Her "soft" style mesmerized Xu (and well beat him).  But her death (which Xu partially blames on everyone but himself), caused him to go back on his evil world dominating ways (hey just like Fu Manchu; Did you know Fu Manchu was an influence for The Mandarin? All the comic book writers at that time were influenced by Sax Rohmer). 

Tony Leung Chiu-Wai is quite a good actor (Chungking Express, In the Mood for Love). He does dominate Simu Liu in his scenes with him. Simu Liu seems to get dominated by most of the actors in the film, he is a bit too milquetoast and does not have the presence that I think he should. He also gets dominated by his girlfriend (played by Awkwafina who has so much more personality than him in a comic supporting role) that I enjoyed her acting much more than his. 

This is a decent film but several drawbacks. The action scenes are good with the fighting (Brad Allen, this is why there are several scenes that are Jackie Chan influenced since Allen worked with Chan, I cannot believe Allen is no longer with us his use of props, the bamboo scaffolding which Chan used in Project A2 and Rush Hour 2, though this type of action is used in a lot of HK films like Return to The 36th Chamber). But the driving scenes  

But the driving scenes are not particularly good. Too much quick cuts, shaky cam. They made me miss the Snake Eyes driving action scenes. You have a strong "bad guy" in Tony Leung (though I wish he had a slight more malevolence). You have a weak lead (though he does wear Jordans -- I saw 4s, but I think he wears 1s as well, always a plus). This takes place in the Doctor Strange realm (Benedict Wong gives this away since he is in Doctor Strange) -- so expect more CGI and magic and weaponry than you would from "the master of unarmed weaponry-based Kung Fu" 

And the ending will remind you a bit of Black Panther (and of course the use of a hidden invisible realm). 

Check out the Kung Fu Hustle poster early on. 

The film is fun enough, it has its strong points, but ultimately feels lackluster. Still loved having the theater to myself. 

[Majin Android]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:06 AM, Super Ninja said:

Shang-Chi reached a new level for Hollywood MA action and is undoubtedly one of the best MCU films so far; I hope Hollywood took notes from Andy Cheng. Seeing MA action in a Hollywood movie without a shitload of cuts is as refreshing and surprising as hearing so many dialogues in Mandarin. Add Chinese director and a Chinese lead, and you get what might turn out to be an important movie. Shang-Chi was hugely enjoyable, and not just for seeing Michelle Yeoh in a classic kung fu fight, Tony Leung in his first Hollywood movie, Yuen Wah getting a fair amount of screen time, and Andy Le doing what he does best as Death Dealer. It is a fun action adventure romp that feels like a wuxia movie at times, filled with damn good action delivering Tai Chi, MMA, rope-dart and more, and featuring some outstanding camerawork. And yes, I also enjoyed the CGI finale, it actually rounds up the movie quite well. I have to mention Ben Kingsley who almost stole the show here for me, blabbering about the original Planet of the Apes, had me LMAO.

Was very nice of them to dedicate the movie to Brad Allan.

Agreed. For some of us this is an important film maybe in the vein of Black Panther but not quite to it's heights within it's importance and responsible storytelling with real life social attributes.

I was concerned Shang-Chi may fail at the box office due to Hollywood producing two earlier Asian themed martial arts films (Mortal Kombat and Snake Eyes). Not entirely sure the majority of mainstream film goers could equally support that many specific genre films with that calendar period.

Your summary of the film is more concise than what I could post btw.

[DrNgor]

3 hours ago, Majin Android said:

but not quite to it's heights within it's importance and responsible storytelling with real life social attributes.

Isn't that what Better Luck Tomorrow and Wayne Wang (and early Ang Lee) movies are for?

[Majin Android]

1 hour ago, DrNgor said:

Isn't that what Better Luck Tomorrow and Wayne Wang (and early Ang Lee) movies are for?

Sure but younger Asian kids may want see Shang-Chi and may not be ready for Better Luck Tomorrow or Ang Lee/ Wayne Wang

[DrNgor]

19 hours ago, Majin Android said:

Sure but younger Asian kids may want see Shang-Chi and may not be ready for Better Luck Tomorrow or Ang Lee/ Wayne Wang

Can you expound upon what you meant by the "heights within...responsible storytelling"?

[Majin Android]

6 hours ago, DrNgor said:

Can you expound upon what you meant by the "heights within...responsible storytelling"?

I believe Shang-Chi was written as a socially conscious film but not to the same extent as Black Panther

[Super Ninja]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:52 PM, AlbertV said:

Andy Cheng was also the one who choreographed the following Hollywood fights:

• Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson vs. Ernie Reyes Jr. in The Rundown (2003)
• Robert Pattinson vs. Cam Gigandet in Twilight (2008)

He also was the choreographer and one of the villains of Isaac Florentine's U.S. Seals II in 2001.

Hollywood took some, but after Shang-Chi, they definitely will need to take notice now. 

Hm.. now I'm actually tempted to watch Twilight, didn't think that would ever happen.

Heard good things about US Seals 2, now I'm twice as interested. Am I wrong in understanding it's actually one of Florentine's finer films, action wise?