Why Jackie Chan puts quantity over quality?

[thejackiechanshow]

I love anything Jackie and will openly admit that it's nice to have so many films of his coming out each year and collecting them like Pokémon cards. But one of my issues with his method is that he doesn't give films the full attention that it deserves.

For example, this year he is making three films (as far as I know) called Knight of the Shadows, The Diary and Project X. Now I'm making assumptions on stories I've read but it seemed like production for Knight started a few months back, Project X just last month and now already he's in Prague filming the Diary. It's the start stop method he has done in the past.

Last year he made Kung Fu Yoga, Railroad Tigers, The Foreigner and Bleeding Steel. Pierce Brosnan said in numerous interviews he never really got to hang out with Jackie or speak to him properly because as soon as he did his lines with Brosnan, he'd be off abroad to do another film. This might further explain Jackie's lack of dialogue and screen presence. Bleeding Steel was just balls, looked like it was made in three days.

I remember Lee Evans in a documentary saying that he filmed a few bits with Jackie in Medallion, when production stopped so he could work on The Tuxedo and then Shanghai Knights (hence the unexplainable weird hair changes Jackie goes through at the beginning of the medallion).

Do you think Jackie puts quantity over quality, that he is just so obsessive in making and promoting new productions as opposed to giving it time? 

[DragonClaws]

 

To make a bigger profit perhaps?, he is a business man, aswell as a film star.

It's a shame he doesnt spend a year on a movie, like he used to, but only he will know the real reason why.

[sifu iron perm]

like when the asian hawk said..only thing he worships is Money..

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by sifu iron perm

[sym8]

On 8/14/2018 at 6:02 AM, thejackiechanshow said:

I love anything Jackie and will openly admit that it's nice to have so many films of his coming out each year and collecting them like Pokémon cards. But one of my issues with his method is that he doesn't give films the full attention that it deserves.

For example, this year he is making three films (as far as I know) called Knight of the Shadows, The Diary and Project X. Now I'm making assumptions on stories I've read but it seemed like production for Knight started a few months back, Project X just last month and now already he's in Prague filming the Diary. It's the start stop method he has done in the past.

Last year he made Kung Fu Yoga, Railroad Tigers, The Foreigner and Bleeding Steel. Pierce Brosnan said in numerous interviews he never really got to hang out with Jackie or speak to him properly because as soon as he did his lines with Brosnan, he'd be off abroad to do another film. This might further explain Jackie's lack of dialogue and screen presence. Bleeding Steel was just balls, looked like it was made in three days.

I remember Lee Evans in a documentary saying that he filmed a few bits with Jackie in Medallion, when production stopped so he could work on The Tuxedo and then Shanghai Knights (hence the unexplainable weird hair changes Jackie goes through at the beginning of the medallion).

Do you think Jackie puts quantity over quality, that he is just so obsessive in making and promoting new productions as opposed to giving it time? 

 Totally agree,when he was in his physical prime I couldn’t wait for his movies to be released,the choreography was a sight to behold there was always something we hadn’t seen before but now (and I know he is old) the films now all look rushed and the action pretty lame at times and always the same.I wished he would put more into quality but somebody must like it because he keeps doing the quantity side.Still for me because of past films he is a god just wished he’d come up with something unique and original like he used to.

[Drunken Monk]

You also have to remember he's 64 years old. If he can do as little physicality as possible and still get paid a shit-ton of money, I imagine he's going to do just that. Perhaps his dedication to the craft as waned as he gets long in the tooth. 

[Omni Dragon]

I'm not sure it's just Chan. I think arguably the Hong Kong, and now the mainland China industry, for the most part has always put emphasis on quantity. Jackie and a lot of others in the Chinese industry use to and still work on several movies at once and put out several in a single year.

[TheKungFuRobber]

Never used to be that way once over. Every movie including and made before Legend of Drunken Master with Jackie Chan was always a good time, apart from maybe The Killer Meteors because it made no goddamn sense. I even enjoyed Fantasy Mission Force, it was a laugh a minute wackball adventure and much better than it gets credit for (the humour doesn't translate well in the dub, and the movie is meant to be goofy and not really have a narrative as such).  I could sit through Fantasy Mission Force any time and enjoy it, it clearly has much more effort put into it than this CGI mainland dross.

Edited August 16, 2018 by TheKungFuRobber

[Omni Dragon]

For me in a lot of ways the action and set pieces held up a lot of the old classic Hong Kong action/Jackie Chan movies. The plot and drama was still important to complement the action but it was often rough around the edges. I felt when it was done well the action/set pieces complemented the plot/drama too. I also think relatively simple plots helped too, because IMO an overly ambitious plot that can't be pulled off well can be worse.     

[TheKungFuRobber]

Also, The Fearless Hyena is better than Drunken Master imo. I don't know why, but it seems very underrated for the classic that it is. Thing is, that movie was the true making of Jackie Chan as the creative individual we all knew and loved.

Edited August 16, 2018 by TheKungFuRobber

[Drunken Monk]

I think CGI has added the downward spiral Jackie's on too. From the skydiving finale of CZ12 to the wacky "I have a lion in my var!" scene in Kung Fu Yoga. It really doesn't help. Even The Myth suffered with that bizarre end sequence.

[DragonClaws]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:58 PM, TheKungFuRobber said:

Also, The Fearless Hyena is better than Drunken Master imo. I don't know why, but it seems very underrated for the classic that it is. Thing is, that movie was the true making of Jackie Chan as the creative individual we all knew and loved.

 

Agreed.

Fearless Hyena, is one of his best movies, certianly in top five of his best 1970's productions. Always held it in the same regards as SITES and DM.

[Killer Meteor]

My problem with Fearless Hyena is that it feels like a cheap knock-off of Jackie's Seasonal films, and shows how much Hwang Jang-Lee and Yuen Siu-Tien brought to them. The alternatives are duller, the Taiwanese locations look drab and grey compared to the lush greenery of Hong Kong, the comedy is excessively grating, and the English dubbing with its Monty Pythonish gurning makes you yearn for Ted Thomas and the "but still" gang.

[DragonClaws]

2 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

My problem with Fearless Hyena is that it feels like a cheap knock-off of Jackie's Seasonal films,

 

I dont think there much difference in terms of budget?, DM and SITES never looked like expensive productions to me.

 

2 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

, the Taiwanese locations look drab and grey compared to the lush greenery of Hong Kong,

 

Looked like the movie was filmed during the summer months to me?. I often prefer Taiwanese locations, there was a much bigger variety of them. Even before I'd watched a good number of Hong Kong films from the 1970's,I noticed the same locations pop up, over and over again.

 

2 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

the English dubbing with its Monty Pythonish gurning makes you yearn for Ted Thomas and the "but still" gang.

 

Agreed, the dubbing on this was really bad, but you can always watch it in the original language instead.

[Killer Meteor]

Yeah, but back in the VHS days it was English dub or nowt!

[TheKungFuRobber]

11 hours ago, Killer Meteor said:

My problem with Fearless Hyena is that it feels like a cheap knock-off of Jackie's Seasonal films, and shows how much Hwang Jang-Lee and Yuen Siu-Tien brought to them. The alternatives are duller, the Taiwanese locations look drab and grey compared to the lush greenery of Hong Kong, the comedy is excessively grating, and the English dubbing with its Monty Pythonish gurning makes you yearn for Ted Thomas and the "but still" gang.

Fearless Hyena was shot in Korea. James Tien and Dean Shek were fairly established names by 1979, and the film seems to have high enough production values with Willie Chan being in charge of the production and having gotten a wide release in Hong Kong. The box office gross for it's run was also pretty good, making HK $5,445,535.00  in it's run compared to the HK $6,763,793.40  made by Drunken Master. It was also very popular in Japan.

As for the dub, bloody awful. I'm used to watching films dubbed but the dub for Fearless Hyena is unsavably bad. It's one of these movies you need to watch in Cantonese with subtitles.

Edited August 18, 2018 by TheKungFuRobber

[DragonClaws]

 

[DarthKato]

He said one time that he makes crap films, to fund films that he really wants to make. 

[Asmo]

9 hours ago, DarthKato said:

He said one time that he makes crap films, to fund films that he really wants to make. 

Yep. That was his reasoning for taking Hollywood projects, from memory. Not saying they're crap, though.

[SMK]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:15 PM, DragonClaws said:

To make a bigger profit perhaps?

This is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe Cash Rules Everything Around Movie Star Jackie Chan. 

[DarthKato]

4 hours ago, Asmo said:

Yep. That was his reasoning for taking Hollywood projects, from memory. Not saying they're crap, though.

Most of the Hollywood stuff is pretty bad. There are exceptions like Rush Hour 1&2 and Shangahi Noon and Knights. 

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

A lot easier to use the casting couch if you have something to cast. Chan is a notorious hound, and these movies get him away from his wife in the past, and whomever he is supposed to be attached to so he can sleep with young, adulating girls with limited acting ability. Pretty sure he tried to hit on Michelle Yeoh and she blew him off. I mean look at most of the actresses in his movies. You can read about his dealing with Albert Yeung, a kidnapper and rapist. These guys are old school, and not in a good way. The things that Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson did back in the day were horrible, and a lot of people thought so, but there was no way to bring them down. You couldn't get away with a lot of this stuff today-

As someone put it online.

"Jackie denied his marriage to Lin Fong-jiao, had a reputation for a casting couch for his female leads (which supposedly led to the downfall of Anita Yuen Wing-yee’s career in Hong Kong after she refused to sleep with Chan while making THUNDERBOLT in 1994 or 95), and ended up knocking up actress/model Maggie Siu three or four years ago.

Chan rarely spent time with his son, Jackson.

Instead of being at his mother’s bedside as she died in Australia, he worked. A choice he consciously made.

Chan is a scumbag.

He does a lot of charity work, and that is admirable. I think there’s a reason behind it. A lot of it has to do with the duality of his personality. He shits on a lot of people and has shady dealings yet he does a tremendous amount of charity work."

I was a big fan, but he is who he is.

[Omni Dragon]

I think it's more about what seems marketable to a mass-modern audience. I just can't imagine someone making POLICE STORY the same way today and for it to still be considered marketable. On a side note PS was released the same year as MY LUCKY STARS, THE PROTECTOR, HEART OF DRAGON and Twinkle, Twinkle, Lucky Stars.

Though I think perhaps to some extent Chan has run out of steam.

 

On 8/16/2018 at 12:14 PM, Silver and Gold Dragon said:

For me in a lot of ways the action and set pieces held up a lot of the old classic Hong Kong action/Jackie Chan movies. The plot and drama was still important to complement the action but it was often rough around the edges. I felt when it was done well the action/set pieces complemented the plot/drama too. I also think relatively simple plots helped too, because IMO an overly ambitious plot that can't be pulled off well can be worse.     

To expand a bit on what I said above. So what your left with if your movie isn't held up by action is a dull rough around the edges drama, and that's kind of how I personally view a lot of the modern Chinese action movies, though to be fair I think the drama tends to be a bit more sophisticated. As for my opinion on modern action movies (including both Chinese and non-Chinese) a lot of them seem troubled by bad/wrongly used editing, shaky cam, CGI, wire work and the way the action/movement doesn't seem to be presented clearly. Or perhaps I'm troubled by my preference for classic HK style action though at times even the best make me think that moment is bad, hokey, silly, gimmicky, unrealistic (even from with very stylised action as the frame of reference for "realistic"). So the classic HK action style isn't perfect, but still for the most part it's my preferred style of action. I guess what I've been trying to say is, I think the seemingly lesser quality has a lot to do with the current film making trend/style and that I have a romanticised view of classic HK action that is a bias.

 

   

[TheKungFuRobber]

Jackie Chan is an asshole. I was always more a Shaw Brothers/Leung Kar-Yan/Hwang Jang Lee guy anyway.

[Rodolphe Dux]

Chan seems to be in need (in love?) of fame, glory and money. I'm not sure, by the way he acts during interviews that he likes making movies or even cinema itself, that's just his way to get fame and money. The more I (re)watch movies with the three dragons, the more I think he's the weakest and most phoney of the three. Sammo Hung is an awesome director with an outstanding filmography, Biao is a brilliant actor and martial artist. Chan is a decent clown acrobat, a hard worker but not an humble nor an upstanding person. That being said, there are masterpieces in his filmography, mostly pre-police story and due to fantastic directors and producers, after that he was bedazzled by hollywood. 

[Asmo]

2 minutes ago, Rodolphe Dux said:

Chan seems to be in need (in love?) of fame, glory and money. I'm not sure, by the way he acts during interviews that he likes making movies or even cinema itself, that's just his way to get fame and money. The more I (re)watch movies with the three dragons, the more I think he's the weakest and most phoney of the three. Sammo Hung is an awesome director with an outstanding filmography, Biao is a brilliant actor and martial artist. Chan is a decent clown acrobat, a hard worker but not an humble nor an upstanding person. That being said, there are masterpieces in his filmography, mostly pre-police story and due to fantastic directors and producers, after that he was bedazzled by hollywood. 

Look at his upbringing, it probably partially explains his need/want for fame. Isn't necessarily the case with the other Opera School graduates, though.