Interesting Articles on Kung Fu's Demise

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I was once a pretty obsessed martial artist. I had basically undiagnosed scoliosis, so I would frequently injure myself, causing me to take several year or two or three long breaks from training. I learned a lot of bullshido while I trained. Stuff like Kempo offshoots that claimed to be "Chinese" arts mixed with Karate. I also studied old school Tae Kwon Do as well as WTF Tae Kwon Do and later Wu Shu and BJJ. I watched tons of Shaw Brothers and Golden Harvest films, and I always felt bad that I never really trained in the "real kung fu". 

Eventually it got to a point where my back simply could not take it, so my interest became intellectual. Now, as I read more and more I realize there is very little real Kung fu out there, and most of what we see in the movies- Shapes, etc, are recent, almost fictional creations (There's no known schools of Southern Eagle Claw, or Spider Style, etc) and most of Hung Gar's forms are less than 120 years old, many of the forms that are in the Shaolin Cycle movies were created in the 1920's! The actual styles that were popular with bodyguards and tough guys were actually Pa Kua (which concentrates on evasion and jiujitsu like throws, not palm strikes) and Hsing Yi, both barely suited to show off in the movies. 

This isn't a post to bash kung fu only to point out that there are a great deal of misinformation about it out there. 

http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2014/kung-fus-identity-crisis/

 

https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2016/12/19/another-look-at-a-young-boxer-martial-arts-and-national-humiliation-in-early-20th-century-china/

 

[DragonClaws]

You might appreciate thie article @NoKUNGFUforYU, posted it last year.

 

 

[DragonClaws]

 

Not an article about the demise of Martial Art's, but I still felt it was more suited to this thread, instead being posted separately.

 

Click on the link below for the full artcle, thank you.

Link- https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/family-education/article/1228465/high-kicking-cabin-crew-using-wing-chun-defend-against

 

[reason108]

On 7/6/2018 at 5:11 PM, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

I was once a pretty obsessed martial artist. I had basically undiagnosed scoliosis, so I would frequently injure myself, causing me to take several year or two or three long breaks from training. I learned a lot of bullshido while I trained. Stuff like Kempo offshoots that claimed to be "Chinese" arts mixed with Karate. I also studied old school Tae Kwon Do as well as WTF Tae Kwon Do and later Wu Shu and BJJ. I watched tons of Shaw Brothers and Golden Harvest films, and I always felt bad that I never really trained in the "real kung fu". 

Eventually it got to a point where my back simply could not take it, so my interest became intellectual. Now, as I read more and more I realize there is very little real Kung fu out there, and most of what we see in the movies- Shapes, etc, are recent, almost fictional creations (There's no known schools of Southern Eagle Claw, or Spider Style, etc) and most of Hung Gar's forms are less than 120 years old, many of the forms that are in the Shaolin Cycle movies were created in the 1920's! The actual styles that were popular with bodyguards and tough guys were actually Pa Kua (which concentrates on evasion and jiujitsu like throws, not palm strikes) and Hsing Yi, both barely suited to show off in the movies. 

This isn't a post to bash kung fu only to point out that there are a great deal of misinformation about it out there. 

http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2014/kung-fus-identity-crisis/

 

https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2016/12/19/another-look-at-a-young-boxer-martial-arts-and-national-humiliation-in-early-20th-century-china/

 

 

It is true that there is a lot of misinformation out there but I would love to see your "proof" that Hung Gar is only 120 years old and that many of the forms were created in the 20`s. 

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

Well, for one thing, Jee Sin, Hung Hsi Kwan and Fang Sai Yuk are all fictional characters from a Ching dynasty novel. The southern Shaolin Temple has not been proven to exist, unlike the northern. The history of the actual practitioners only goes back to the 1800's at most, and the fact that people site made up people as creators brings their credibility into doubt. I am not saying there was not a southern fist style or styles, but from what I read, it is very hard to get an accurate stories of how these were developed. The northern forms were developed by a committee. 

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

More News

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2119375/nobody-kung-fu-fighting-chinese-martial-artists-ordered-stop

 

[reason108]

15 hours ago, NoKUNGFUforYU said:

Well, for one thing, Jee Sin, Hung Hsi Kwan and Fang Sai Yuk are all fictional characters from a Ching dynasty novel. The southern Shaolin Temple has not been proven to exist, unlike the northern. The history of the actual practitioners only goes back to the 1800's at most, and the fact that people site made up people as creators brings their credibility into doubt. I am not saying there was not a southern fist style or styles, but from what I read, it is very hard to get an accurate stories of how these were developed. The northern forms were developed by a committee. 

 

People have always fought, so, it would make sense that someone would have passed down their fighting knowledge to at least their descendants. Or, could have trained the locals in their village a method of self protection. It`s not like you could just call up the police and expect them to arrive in a couple of minutes. But, oral traditions would be almost impossible to follow-up on. And, yeah, I agree, it`s hard to trust when (possible) fictional characters get mixed in with real people`s histories in order to legitimize one`s legacy. But, at least some real people can be traced back a good 200 years. You have Wong Fei-hung`s father that supposedly learnt from his father. There are older written records that mention martial arts, like the Spring and Autumn Annals (5th century BCE). Personally, due to everything that I have read, I do believe that styles go back further. But, since people adapt and change things all the time, it`s hard to say, perhaps, when a style may have originated. And, I also think that sometimes historians have this idea that if they can't "prove" it then it didn't happen. But, it`s possible there could be some grains of truth hidden in some of these tales that have been told. 

 

[HyperDrive]

Yeah, there was a Time magazine article about how they were preserving HK's vanishing kung fu styles by having masters model for 3d rendering with motion sensor cameras and etc.

http://time.com/4587078/kung-fu-martial-arts-hakka-hong-kong-preserve/

There is also a documentary called Needle Through Brick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKC9U1Niqrw

[DragonClaws]

 

[DragonClaws]

 

 

 

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[DragonClaws]

 

 

[Drunken Monk]

I think a lot of styles die because of bullshit teachers. Since the Ip Man movies, so many people all of a sudden "know" Wing Chun. These people are essentially con artists teaching ill-conceived imitations of what is considered a traditional style. You only have to look at people like Master Wong and Jake Mace. These two guys probably have thousands of online "students" and, if rumours are true, they know fuck all about traditional styles. It's all a masquerade.

On top of that, no wannabe martial arts movie stars focus on tradition anymore. It's all about flashy kicking, tricking and Wushu. Because that's what looks good on camera.