The Cutting Room Floor: Lost, Censored & Deleted Bruce Lee Movie Scenes (Article)

[DragonClaws]

 

A few questions for @starschwar & @saltysam, the print Nick Clarke shared online is in Spanish, with English & Manderin or are they Cantonese subtitles?. I wonder if Golden Harvest dubbed or subtitled?, The Big Boss in Mandarin for it first run in Hong Kong?. Was it cheaper to subtitle movies, than it was to hire voice actors to dub the movies?. Im guessing that the English subtitles on the Spanish print, were added for English speaking audiences, who were living in Hong Kong  during the early 70's?.

 

[starschwar]

12 hours ago, DragonClaws said:

 

A few questions for @starschwar & @saltysam, the print Nick Clarke shared online is in Spanish, with English & Manderin or are they Cantonese subtitles?. I wonder if Golden Harvest dubbed or subtitled?, The Big Boss in Mandarin for it first run in Hong Kong?. Was it cheaper to subtitle movies, than it was to hire voice actors to dub the movies?. Im guessing that the English subtitles on the Spanish print, were added for English speaking audiences, who were living in Hong Kong  during the early 70's?.

 

 

I skimmed that video - some of the previously lost footage reverts to Mandarin.  I think what we're looking at is someone who took Arrow's Raw Scan of the Mandarin Cut and synced up the extant portions of a Spanish language dub of the shorter version we all know. 

Subtitles on HK films:  It's my understanding that theatrical prints of Hong Kong movies were required, by law, to include both English subtitles (for the benefit of British colonials) as well as Chinese (for the benefit of those who spoke dialects other than what was used in the film).  I've seen some Taiwan versions that also include the dual language subtitles, with the content altered to represent a translation of the revised Mandarin redubs of Cantonese films.  So I don't know if that was another local legality, or just some restriction imposed on works made but not screened in HK?

When it comes to non-Chinese language export markets, I'm pretty sure that it was much, much more common for non-subtitled prints to be sent out with dubbing provided by/for the target audience's language.  I'm not sure at what point subtitles became an option.  No later than the mid 1990s, at least, back when Tai Seng was essentially putting Laserdisc masters on VHS. 

[DragonClaws]

On 1/16/2024 at 10:54 PM, starschwar said:

I skimmed that video - some of the previously lost footage reverts to Mandarin.  I think what we're looking at is someone who took Arrow's Raw Scan of the Mandarin Cut and synced up the extant portions of a Spanish language dub of the shorter version we all know. 

 

I wonder who is behind this version?, it looks just how imagine it would after a few screenings in the 70's. That said, their have been some great restorations of Bruce Lees few film roles, including the recent Box-Set from Arrow.

 

[starschwar]

Again, I am 99.9% sure that the video is taken from the "raw scan" version available on the Arrow release.

[DragonClaws]

 

Interesting to hear Michael Worth's opinion on the missing saw sequence, on the Clones Cast pod-cast. It’s at the start of The Tato Connection edition of the series. He think it was just a promotional image, which could be true?. What’s odd is, in the picture featured in Steve Kerridge’s last book, there’s a less cropped picture of a well-known image of this heavily debated almost mythical scene. Which shows a patch of blood/gore in the background of the lower half of the image. I’m guessing this is from the impact of the saw?, or multiple impacts?. You can’t see this in the movie itself, as far as I can recall, even in the 4K versions. @De Ming Li, can you confirm my memory of the image you shared to be correct?.

Edited February 14 by DragonClaws

[Coliseum1972]

Im browsing around and see several BB vhs from Spain.....could it have mandarin cut with possibly perhaps even keyhole scene ? 

Whos to say that full versions didnt slip thru cracks at dawn of vhs era , it was issued many times on vhs all over the globe 

 

Edited March 23 by Coliseum1972

[DragonClaws]

Just now, Coliseum1972 said:

Im browsing around and see several BB vhs from Spain.....could it have mandarin cut with possibly perhaps even keyhole scene ? 

Whos to say that full versions didnt slip thru cracks at dawn of vhs era , it was issued many times on vhs all over the globe 

 

 

VHS first appeared in America in the late 70's?, not sure when it first appeared in Asia?.

When Kung Fu Monthly announced the Mandarin print they screened was going to be destroyed, I guess they meant to say it was going out of circulation in the West at least. Sure that version was still being screened in Asian cinema into the 80's?. Until the prints were either worn out, destroyed, neglected or in some cases even purchased by film collectors. I wonder if the longer print ever received any screening in private film clubs around the world. In the U.K, these clubs were even able to screen UNCUT versions of then banned movies such as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Evil Dead among others.

 

[Yihetuan]

@DragonClaws, I would surmise VHS was wisely accepted in Asia much later than the rest of the world as the Beta format ruled the roost during the early years.

[DragonClaws]

On 3/23/2024 at 12:42 PM, Yihetuan said:

@DragonClaws, I would surmise VHS was wisely accepted in Asia much later than the rest of the world as the Beta format ruled the roost during the early years.

 

Thanks @Yihetuan, anyone know when the first Asian home media releases of the Bruce Lee films happened?.

[DragonClaws]

 

 

[PandaPawPaw]

3 hours ago, DragonClaws said:

 

 

Surprised to see him. Haven't seen much of him since you know what.

[Coliseum1972]

On 3/23/2024 at 8:11 PM, DragonClaws said:

 

VHS first appeared in America in the late 70's?, not sure when it first appeared in Asia?.

 

When Kung Fu Monthly announced the Mandarin print they screened was going to be destroyed, I guess they meant to say it was going out of circulation in the West at least. Sure that version was still being screened in Asian cinema into the 80's?. Until the prints were either worn out, destroyed, neglected or in some cases even purchased by film collectors. I wonder if the longer print ever received any screening in private film clubs around the world. In the U.K, these clubs were even able to screen UNCUT versions of then banned movies such as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Evil Dead among others.

As Ive said I saw BB uncut around 1988.....funny thing is I think it also had Thomas' soundtrack so a hybrid version as I vividly r*call th th*m* song.....rumor about a swedish version but who knows , maybe some uncuts published on vhs by mistake ?

On 3/23/2024 at 8:11 PM, DragonClaws said:

 

 

[Coliseum1972]

I do think it was a l*git issud vhs , not a r*cording.....and I susp*ct it also had k*yhol* sc*n*

(sorry , brokn k*yboard)

It was actually difficult BL films in HK on vhs in 1986.....tricky to locat* BL films th*r*  ironically...... 

Edited March 30 by Coliseum1972

[DragonClaws]

On 3/30/2024 at 6:04 AM, Coliseum1972 said:

As Ive said I saw BB uncut around 1988.....funny thing is I think it also had Thomas' soundtrack so a hybrid version as I vividly r*call th th*m* song.....rumor about a swedish version but who knows , maybe some uncuts published on vhs by mistake ?

 

A lot of people have said they caught it on VHS, but its hard to say how much of this is true. The Best of Bruce Lee documentary was censored in the U.K, to remove the nunchaku scene from Enter the Dragon cavern scene. However, I picked it up on VHS and it was UNCUT, the label was BraveWorld. They released a lot of low budget action/Martial Arts flicks. I didnt expect to see the nunchaku scene when John Saxon gives the introduction, but there it was. Aged 14 this was a rare find when the Britsh censors were still very strict with action cinema. I still have the VHS tape, I picked it up in a local newsagents that had a bargain bin of VHS tapes. Around the time DVD was qucikly taking over the home media market.

Edited March 31 by DragonClaws

[kurtz]

Not BB but I know that Fist was released on Betamax totally uncut in the uk on first release.

An old neighbour of mine showed me it (maybe very early 90’s?) and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing (as at that point they were all the uk vhs CUT rank versions..)

Did a tape to tape conversion and kept that until HKL dvds!

[makone]

The first video releases (both VHS and BETA) of Fist of Fury and Enter the Dragon were uncut in the UK.

[DragonClaws]

4 hours ago, kurtz said:

Not BB but I know that Fist was released on Betamax totally uncut in the uk on first release.

An old neighbour of mine showed me it (maybe very early 90’s?) and I couldn’t believe what I was seeing (as at that point they were all the uk vhs CUT rank versions..)

Did a tape to tape conversion and kept that until HKL dvds!

 

Just now, makone said:

The first video releases (both VHS and BETA) of Fist of Fury and Enter the Dragon were uncut in the UK.

 

Fist of Fury passed the British censors UNCUT for its first Enligsh language cinema release in the U.K. Enter the Dragon suffered some violence cuts, but the nunchaku scene remained. Cut to a few years late when WOTD was released, and that movie was cut to remove the nucnhaku sequence among other things. FOF & ETD were pulled from cinemas around the same time and the BBFC requested cuts to the nunchaku scenes. The WOTD Betamx was the British cinema print, which was then cut further for the BBFC rated VHS release, however, some VHS companies released the censored cinema cut, and others the  even more heavily censored VHS cut misssing ten minutes. Kinda strange, but the BBFC no longer admit to doing this or mentioning on their website. At one time, you could email them and ask them for any cuts lists. Some survived, some didnt, I and I tried to obtain the WOTD cuts but the notes were in-complete. However, this had already been put together by fans online anyway. All you had to do was compare the VHS version with the HKL DVD. Sure the FOF pre-cert VHS tape, was sourced from the same UNCUT print as the Betamax tape too?. Enter the Dragon was also UNCUT on pre-cet VHS, but The Big Boss & WOTD were the trimmed theatrical versions.

 

Edited March 31 by DragonClaws

[saltysam]

i remember seeing the chinese version of Way at an all night kung fu cinema club screening. I was blown away by how much was missing from the UK. And of course,America got a shortened version called Return Of The Dragon.

[DragonClaws]

On 3/31/2024 at 12:57 PM, saltysam said:

i remember seeing the chinese version of Way at an all night kung fu cinema club screening. I was blown away by how much was missing from the UK. And of course,America got a shortened version called Return Of The Dragon.

 

I wonder how much of the 20-minutes’ worth of outtakes from Way of The Dragon are made up of deleted scenes?. The export cuts of this movie were all edited in different ways. Anyone know what the runtime was for its first Hong Kong premiere and initial theatrical run?.

[PandaPawPaw]

1 hour ago, DragonClaws said:

 

I wonder how much of the 20-minutes’ worth of outtakes from Way of The Dragon are made up of deleted scenes?. The export cuts of this movie were all edited in different ways. Anyone know what the runtime was for its first Hong Kong premiere and initial theatrical run?.

 

I still can't find the video someone posted on here where there was some guy talking about seeing the WOTD footage. I'm starting to think I imagined it.

[Coliseum1972]

Well , singaporean Way flyer has runtim but I do not own it

(and Colts first nam is Arthur , says so on flyer.....boss namd William)

Edited April 9 by Coliseum1972

[DragonClaws]

20 hours ago, Coliseum1972 said:

Well , singaporean Way flyer has runtim but I do not own it

(and Colts first nam is Arthur , says so on flyer.....boss namd William)

 

The Hong Kong WOTD flyers must have a runtime too?,

[Coliseum1972]

they should,yes......

[Drunksnake]

Someone needs to release this series properly before it becomes lost/neglected in the vaults.

[Bruce]

21 hours ago, Drunksnake said:

Someone needs to release this series properly before it becomes lost/neglected in the vaults.

Amen to that! How hard can it be to release 26 episodes of a show on blu ray? Did I hear someone's trying to make a Green Hornet movie again? Maybe then the old series will finally get some decent treatment on home video!