Guest Cesare Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Any discussion regarding the movie is of course welcome (I'm quite eager to read your thoughts on it). I watched "The Heroic Ones" yesterday and I was really impressed. Even though I get impressed relatively easily and Chang Cheh is especially good in doing the job, this movie has really left a more lasting and profound impression than many others. The story was great, the actors were fantastic (Ku Feng in particular) and I liked pretty much everything about the movie. Can you recommend anything with similar mix of gore, action, and drama? SB or non-SB, old-school or newer stuff... (Though old-school is slightly preferred...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stormybman Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Sure Cesare, how about this short list for you..? Avenging Eagle Duel of Fists New one Armed Swordsman Have Sword Will Travel ... all the above titles starring Ku Feng in roles not unlike that in Heroic Ones. Btw, I found Heroic Ones to be a nice ensemble film, starring a host of the Shaw action stars. The costumes were great, and David Chaing was really cool as the young prince... The fighting has a hint of wrestling/grappling techniques, though a bit crude, but fitting all the same. "Whenever you're ready, I'll take on any Japanese here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cesare Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Thanks for the recommendations...:-) I have already seen "New One-Armed Swordsman" and it is one of my faves. Fabulous movie... Though I got to confess that I probably liked "The Heroic Ones" even better... I'll try to get the rest of the movies you mentioned... Yep, David Chiang was great... And so was Ti Lung. And others...:-) Really, good acting was one of the greatest strengths of this movie... And "The Heroic Ones" is IMHO quite a good example when it comes to the "pornography of dying" in CC's movies... Has anyone ever written a paper or something on death scenes in movies by Chang Cheh? If so, I'd really love to read it... This is one of those things about CC that quite fascinate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Great film. As for others: Human Lanterns The Duel Shaolin Mantis Vengeance The Delightful Forest King Boxer The New One Armed SWordsman Have Sword Will Travel The Black Butterfly 14 Amazons, is more along the lines of Heroic Ones, though I wasn't able to get through the first half hour. It's been a while, so maybe the next time I through it in I"ll see it in a different light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peringaten Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 If it's grand carnage you're after, Devil's Mirror is niiiiiicccccee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldeschool17 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 the tent scene is some good cinematography for its time. Chang Cheh put good use of an outside shot with tents, horses, ropes, and body parts to convey Chiang getting quartered. I mean just imagine that kinda scene these days with garbage cgi. It wouldnt have nearly the same effect. Speaking of that tent scene, i was just shaking my head the whole time when David Chiang listened to his "brothers" and suffered his demise. Makes you almost think what would have happened had he not listened to them but alas thats classic chang cheh tragic hero for you there. Although the fighting in this was a bit archaic and the story line bit long in parts, i thought it was a beautifully shot movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1budz4u Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I remember seeing this movie at the theater when I was a kid and I was so impressed by how David Chiang was quartered. How I wish to see this movie once again on the big movie screen. Sigh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Live Wire Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Heroic Ones is a real bad film, maybe the worst of a lot of not so great movies of Chang Cheh. Chang Cheh made nothing out of the potential of the story. Allthough the movie is very long there is more or less no characterisation of the relationships between the thirteen brothers and it gets real boring in times. In the end David Chiang is so unbelievable stupid that it hurts. The only real highlight is the big fight of Ti Lung. IMO only 3/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cesare Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 oldeschool17, 1budz4u: Oh yes, the tent scene... Although I had rather Ti Lung's fight and final stand in mind when talking about pornography of dying, the tent scene was really something. I didn't really expect such an outcome, so the impact of the scene was rather profound. Chiang's character *was* being rather idiotic but quite ironically I liked him the more for it... Must be D. Chiang's youthful charm or something. (*grin*) Live Wire: OK... Opinions differ. So - seen something similarly bad that hasn't been mentioned yet and that you'd not recommend? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Live Wire Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 @cesare: Usually I have more proplems with his later work because his storytelling is often bad in these movie. Examples for that are Rebel Intruders, Ten Tigers of Kwangtung and Two Champions of Shaolin. The action in all of that movies is good but the way he tells the stories IMO is by far worse than in earlier movies like Invincible Fist, Flying Dagger, One Armed Swordsman, The Duel... All in all I must say that I´m not one of his biggest fans. In some cases like his Shaolin Cycle I more or less skip a whole series of movies (except Shaolin Martial Arts and Shaolin Temple) as I believe I would not like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted February 26, 2009 Member Share Posted February 26, 2009 'The Heroic Ones'. I saw this film in the early 90's on a very weak VHS. I know I enjoyed it back then. Also I kept confusing it to 'The Water Margin' a much inferior movie. Seeing it in the new Celestial Print was like watching it for the first time. A true Chan Cheh masterpiece. Every detail of the movie was perfect except. a. The night scenes, (supposed), shot in the daylight. b. When David Chiang was dragging Bolo Yeung in the hall there was no tension on the rope. I suppose because we did not see it in real time, maybe he had some men carry the body in the hall. These are my only complaints. Picky yes, I can't help it. One of the Great great Shaw films. GD Y-Y 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 I dont like the ending, everything is great up until david chaing exits the picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 I dont like the ending, everything is great up until david chaing exits the picture.That irrated me 2,chiangs character did not have much IQ.Same was with some his brothers who fell into cheap tricks of treacherous 2 brothers in the end fight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 SPOILERS AHEAD...;-) 13th brother's behaviour is not entirely devoid of sense. I mean - this is wuxia, the genre of "sentimental swordsmen"...;-) Jianghu is full of honest dupes. XD No, seriously... Given the fact that old Li was grief-stricken and out of his mind at that time... Whatever decree the old patriarch was reported to have come up with, Chiang's character may not have found the whole idea that absurd. You could argue that he kind of overestimated father's authority and influence. He obviously held his adoptive dad in high regard and - being an honest, good, filial son - the idea that other sons (let alone biological ones) may not share that sort of sentiment was probably beyond the bounds of his imagination...;-) Actually, the more I think of it, the more it reminds me of this guy (almost certainly no idiot, but still obeyed a direct order to commit suicide, regardless of the very disputable explanation given). I may be weird... But it all makes good sense to me...:-) Filial piety, a little arrogance and a little under or overestimation of this or that factor - and wheee - you're heading in five different directions at once. By the way - Heroic Ones is one of my absolute faves and IMHO one of CC's best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member shaolin drunkard Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 OK,fact was already become clear 2 dragons are not trustworthy so I think Chiangs character acted like dumbf**k anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 The way I see it, he seriously underestimated them (both their competence and their grudge). A grave mistake, no doubt. Whether dumb, naive or noble is a matter of perspective (and empathy). Bah. Whatever. (Though if you got problem with that sort of mindset, I quite wonder how you deal with wuxia in general...) Anyway, I think that this lapse in judgment is *nothing* compared to the lapse in judgment on the part of David Chiang's character in Wandering Swordsman...;-)) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted February 27, 2009 Member Share Posted February 27, 2009 I think David Chaing's "exit" had nothing to do with story or filal duty, etc...Chang Che simply wanted a gory yet glorious death scene. Thats his thing, powerful death sequences for heroes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted February 28, 2009 Member Share Posted February 28, 2009 Iron Boat: Geez, you're being such a bore...:-} Sure CC never missed an opportunity to shoot a gory death scene. (I wonder if the scene is taken from Ni Kuang's novel or if CC had to make it up...:-]) But rationalizing is fun (definitely more fun than stating the obvious...;-))... And as far as I'm concerned, the manner of Chiang's "exit", as you put it, does work within the story, regardless of the -- extratextual context. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted February 28, 2009 Member Share Posted February 28, 2009 Iron Boat: Geez, you're being such a bore...:-} Sure CC never missed an opportunity to shoot a gory death scene. (I wonder if the scene is taken from Ni Kuang's novel or if CC had to make it up...:-]) But rationalizing is fun (definitely more fun than stating the obvious...;-))... And as far as I'm concerned, the manner of Chiang's "exit", as you put it, does work within the story, regardless of the -- extratextual context. I guess I can agree with that, it is more fun to dig into the artistic and analytical interpretations of the scenes, but then again, when you see Ketchup spewing limbs and torso's dragged across the screen you kind of forget about the symbolic meaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted February 28, 2009 Member Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think Heroic Ones like almost any Shaws film could have been "perfected". But I appreciate the movie anyway. It's an excellent film despite the obvious flaws any Shaw flick will possess in some manner. I'm wicked appreciative of the english dub remaster released in the states. If only more GOOD flicks were being treated like this film. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted February 28, 2009 Member Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think Chaing's character was only human, it shows anyone can make a mistake - and pay for it with their life. This movie certinaly had the epic feel to it, the demise of a great family seems to be a popular subject in Asian film. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted December 6, 2009 Member Share Posted December 6, 2009 I watched the first half the first night and was very impressed. I did enjoy the end but the tent scene just didnt make sense to me.. how did david chiang lose all of his wit and seem to almost become laughably stupid. whereas in the first half he displayed the opposite. i wonder if the english dub made it seem worse, but that was the only odd part of the movie for me.. i thought the horse scene was amazing though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted December 7, 2009 Member Share Posted December 7, 2009 I love this movie. The tent scene works for me. I like the way it’s directed. But now that I think about it you’re right. He shouldn’t have let himself get tied down like that. He had to know those 2 were up to something. The final scene is the most ridiculous IMO. The fight with the brothers where they keep letting the 2 evil brothers live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Blood Sword Posted December 7, 2009 Member Share Posted December 7, 2009 The final scene is the most ridiculous IMO. The fight with the brothers where they keep letting the 2 evil brothers live. That is correct.Some of Good brothers fall into cheapest tricks:tongue:,it`s crap ending for mostly great movie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted December 7, 2009 Member Share Posted December 7, 2009 I love this movie. The tent scene works for me. I like the way it’s directed. But now that I think about it you’re right. He shouldn’t have let himself get tied down like that. He had to know those 2 were up to something. The final scene is the most ridiculous IMO. The fight with the brothers where they keep letting the 2 evil brothers live. great point.. that last fight was crazy they let them go like 3 times.. im new to this period of chang chehs movies( only have watched venoms mostly) could you reccomend other movies you enjoyed as much as the heroic ones? want to get some more ti lung/david chiang period ones.. i do have vengeance, deadly duo and heroes two 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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