Is Hong Kong..

[Iron_Leopard]

Still Bruce's town or is it Jackie's now?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Jackie is pretty widely despised in HK from what I know. And I don't think many new generation Hong Kongers gives a rats ass about Bruce Lee today.

[Drunken Monk]

20 minutes ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Jackie is pretty widely despised in HK from what I know. And I don't think many new generation Hong Kongers gives a rats ass about Bruce Lee today.

What’s the deal with Jackie being so widely hated in Hong Kong?

I just watched The Silver Spleen’s review of “Tje Foreigner” and he said exactly the same thing.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I don't live there, so I don't know for sure. But I started hearing rumblings of Jackie hate back in the early to mid naughts, and with his continued ass kissing of the mainland Chinese goverment and general pandering of China, plus plenty of anti democratic statements, his illegitimate daughter scandal, that Emil Chow drunk on stage incident and so on, I just think he wore out his welcome in his own city.

[Iron_Leopard]

10 hours ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Jackie is pretty widely despised in HK from what I know. And I don't think many new generation Hong Kongers gives a rats ass about Bruce Lee today.

So he's went from global superstar to a cult following?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

No, I think both of them are globally loved and recognized, just not in HK.

[DrNgor]

On 14/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Jackie is pretty widely despised in HK from what I know. And I don't think many new generation Hong Kongers gives a rats ass about Bruce Lee today.

Hong Kongers have always struck me as being an extremely fickle people when it comes to which stars they throw their support to. You can make some successful movies and a few years later, nobody really cares about what you do.

Yuen Biao was out of style in HK by the late 80s, but Japanese audiences seemed to stay faithful up to 2002 when he was cast in No Problem 2.

[DragonClaws]

On 16/12/2017 at 3:41 PM, DrNgor said:

You can make some successful movies and a few years later, nobody really cares about what you do.

Agreed.

I think this is also the reason, a lot of Hong Kong performers have multiple jobs, for when the work dried up. At least the stars of the 90's 80's. I've heard stories of actors/actresses who were dentists or opticians when not getting movie work. I'm no talking about big names such as Jet Li, Jackie Chan or Chow Yun Fat, but supporting actors/actresses.

[Kwai]

Bruce ist getting Bigger from year to year. People like Nicholas tse and His Generation think of him as the King, while in Recent years He got even More recognition. They Made a Statue of him for tsim Sha tsui and a Bigger one for the Bruce Lee exhibition in the Heritage Museum. Hong Kong people know how big Bruce is in the world. Its funny that jackie Made a documentary about HIS Home Hong Kong und a year later Bruce gets his Well deserved recognition through a Statue and from Then on jackie begins to Talk Bad about HK. Maybe He got butthurt. 😀  His Office in the Waterloo Road doesnt exist anymore. It is now in beijing. In the end Jackie ist just a great filmmaker and Entertainer. Bruce has influenced much More people in different fields and was an intellectual. 

 

 

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Nic Tse and his generation are nearing their 40's. And I'm not sure Bruce is "getting bigger year by year" as much as he is becoming more and more of a commercialized brand instead of a once living person. And we all know who to thank for that. But hey, that's just my view point. I was never a big Bruce fan and am not an expert in how he is percieved today.

[andy338]

I first visited Hong Kong in 2004 and even then I felt like Bruce/Jackie (and kung fu in general) were considered to be uncool and a thing of the past. When I spoke excitedly to people in their 20s about movies and mentioned kung fu there was a real disinterest and people were much more in to American blockbusters. I remember showing some clips of Drunken Master 2 to some friends there and they just smiled politely and then said their parents used to watch those type of films. I've visited HK a number of times since the last time being in 2015 and I have to say interest has probably dwindled each passing year. I guess the movies we love are now 30-40 years old and there's no reason for HK kids to be fans in the same way that we were.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Exactly. You might see a HK youngster wearing a T-shirt with Bruce Lee DJ'ing, but I doubt that same dude is reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do or watching Big Boss. I think many western fans have a very misguided idea of how these films we love are and were percieved in their local regions.

[Kwai]

AS Long as people will practice martial arts, at one Point the Name Bruce Lee will Pop Up. Ich agree that the Young Generation doesnt train, like their ancestors. When i was in HK, i wondered about all the thin Teenagers Walking on The street s. Martial arts ist Stil popular. Donnie yens movies are still succesful. But a Lot of the Young people are Fans of superficial popstars. And social Media Stars. ITS Like in the West. We live in superficial Times where people are interested in the kardashians and people WHO have their 5 minutes of Fame because of a Video in fb or Instagram. I think it's such a Shame that they don't embrace their culture and Look Up to the US-bullshit.

[Killer Meteor]

17 hours ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

Exactly. You might see a HK youngster wearing a T-shirt with Bruce Lee DJ'ing, but I doubt that same dude is reading Tao of Jeet Kune Do or watching Big Boss. I think many western fans have a very misguided idea of how these films we love are and were percieved in their local regions.

Funnily enough, the 1981 film The Chinese Stuntman makes a point about this, where John Ladaski is Bruce-mad, and the HKers have moved on.

[andy338]

38 minutes ago, Killer Meteor said:

Funnily enough, the 1981 film The Chinese Stuntman makes a point about this, where John Ladaski is Bruce-mad, and the HKers have moved on.

When you think about it, it would be crazy if they didn't. Each generation has it's own stars and no matter how big they are they will always be replaced. A couple of years ago I was dating a Chinese woman in her late 20s and she was embarrassed by my kung fu interest as she saw it as distinctly uncool, she asked me once "why do you watch those old movies?" and despite me explaining how awesome the performers were she just rolled her eyes and said "old, old, old". Actually the last time I was in Hong Kong I had to watch SPL2 at the cinema on my own because my girlfriend wanted to watch (I think) the latest Transformers movie or whatever big US movie was on.

[DragonClaws]

21 hours ago, Kwai said:

We live in superficial Times where people are interested in the kardashians and people WHO have their 5 minutes of Fame because of a Video in fb or Instagram. I think it's such a Shame that they don't embrace their culture and Look Up to the US-bullshit.

Too true, how you look has always been important in the film,T.V/entertinament world. Yet it seems more important now than ever, people seem to want to follow this dull, and un-interesting people. Just when you though clebrities coudnt get any more boring, we now have YouTube stars etc, who seem more intent on exploitating their following and pushing products their paid to. Not that every person online who has a video blog is dull or money grabbing, it just seems like the majority are.

 

3 hours ago, andy338 said:

When you think about it, it would be crazy if they didn't. Each generation has it's own stars and no matter how big they are they will always be replaced. A couple of years ago I was dating a Chinese woman in her late 20s and she was embarrassed by my kung fu interest as she saw it as distinctly uncool, she asked me once "why do you watch those old movies?" and despite me explaining how awesome the performers were she just rolled her eyes and said "old, old, old". Actually the last time I was in Hong Kong I had to watch SPL2 at the cinema on my own because my girlfriend wanted to watch (I think) the latest Transformers movie or whatever big US movie was on.

They certainly dont hold onto the past, like we do in the west. Or should I say how some people do in the West, becuase I have friend who wont seeker out older forms of entertainment. I have encountered younger Asian people who enjoyed Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies, but they were very aware it wasn't hip or cool.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

In my experience, Asians are the least nostalgic people I've encountered. Not necessarily in terms of family history, ancestors, history of their country etc. But regarding entertainment, technology, fashion and the likes, it's gotta be the newest of the new. Of course that is just based on the people I've known, who were mostly Vietnamese, Korean and Chinese.

[thekfc]

2 hours ago, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

In my experience, Asians are the least nostalgic people I've encountered. Not necessarily in terms of family history, ancestors, history of their country etc. But regarding entertainment, technology, fashion and the likes, it's gotta be the newest of the new. Of course that is just based on the people I've known, who were mostly Vietnamese, Korean and Chinese.

I kinda agree to this.

I would say that this is one of the reasons that there isn't/wasn't a better preservation of their "older" film library. Actually, even some of the films produced during the 80's/90's are in bad shape. 

Like previously stated, if something isn't "current" they would just "discard" it, "forget" about it, let it collect dust or the likes and move on and concentrate on the newest/current trend. You can even see this in the type of movies being made - Canto pop stars as the main leads, CGI heavy movies, etc,.

[andy338]

13 minutes ago, thekfc said:

I kinda agree to this.

I would say that this is one of the reasons that there isn't/wasn't a better preservation of their "older" film library. Actually, even some of the films produced during the 80's/90's are in bad shape. 

Like previously stated, if something isn't "current" they would just "discard" it, "forget" about it, let it collect dust or the likes and move on and concentrate on the newest/current trend. You can even see this in the type of movies being made - Canto pop stars as the main leads, CGI heavy movies, etc,.

Bey Logan used to mention this in his HKL commentaries and he said that HK movies were considered "disposable" with the idea being that you'd make a movie and try and make a little profit from a cinema run and then use that cash to make another film and so on with no regard for preserving the movie for future generations, this of course explains why many original prints became damaged or even lost completely. Of course nobody at the time knew about the home entertainment market that was about to take off or how valuable any of this footage actually would become.

[andy338]

This topic made me think about whether young people in the west would watch Bruce/Jackie movies in the same way that we did, and the more I thought about it I just can't imagine it. I've certainly never heard any of the 20-somethings that I work with mention them and even when talking to kids into martial arts they've talked about Tony Jaa and Donnie Yen but not Bruce/Jackie. I wonder what kids nowadays would think of for example Big Boss or Way of the Dragon? As much as we loved them I think it would be hard for kids to sit through either movie. What do you guys think? Do 70s/80s HK movies appeal to young people anywhere in the world?

[thekfc]

4 hours ago, andy338 said:

I wonder what kids nowadays would think of for example Big Boss or Way of the Dragon? As much as we loved them I think it would be hard for kids to sit through either movie

A while back, I showed a bunch of kids (12 to 17) Fist of Fury & The Big Boss. They did sat thru them but later they didn't want to watch Enter The Dragon or Way of the Dragon. One of their biggest criticism was "Those guys are not fighting back, they just standing there waiting to get kicked".   

And yes, they wanted to see some Tony Jaa Instead. 

[andy338]

Tony Jaa had a huge impact on the young martial artists (in my opinion) with Ong Bak coming out at the same time that tricking (acrobatic martial arts) was just starting to take off and influencing many to start learning flips and twists instead of the more traditional fighting arts. He certainly exploded on to the screen and made many that came before him look quite dull in comparison, I suppose Tony is the Bruce/Jackie of his generation.

[DragonClaws]

On 01/01/2018 at 5:57 PM, andy338 said:

Tony Jaa had a huge impact on the young martial artists (in my opinion) with Ong Bak coming out at the same time that tricking (acrobatic martial arts) was just starting to take off and influencing many to start learning flips and twists instead of the more traditional fighting arts. He certainly exploded on to the screen and made many that came before him look quite dull in comparison, I suppose Tony is the Bruce/Jackie of his generation.

When I first watched Ong-Bak, I was out of touch with the genre at the time. The filmed knocked me out, more so than the Raid did years later. I thought someones finally come along and succesfully combined Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee screen fighting approach. At the same time, we got free running influence with District 13, and I thought things were really going to change for the good. I expected some new stars to come out of this movement in a few years time, and with Tony Jaa it worked to a point. Only I feel some of the troubles he's had in his career, held him back at his peak. Donnie Yen a great star too, and if he helping to bring in a younger audience, then even better.

Bruce Lee's movies looked very dated, when I first got into them back in the late 90's. So how they look to younger fans raised on post The Matrix/Ong Bak era, I can only imagine. One thing that never dates, is the man charisma, talent and screen presence. Know one since him has come close, and its this charisma that made everything he did that extra bit special.

 

On 01/01/2018 at 4:27 PM, thekfc said:

"Those guys are not fighting back, they just standing there waiting to get kicked".   

According to Jackie Chan, he Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao al had the same reaction to Bruce Lee's The Big Boss. When they too were the same age, seeing the films in Hong Kong on their first run.

[Fist of the Heavenly Sky]

The problem isn't that Jackie is hated or loved in HK; it's just that he's not seen as a chivalrous individual like he is in the rest of the world. Sure, he gives boatloads of his own money to charities, but it's hardly an open secret that his personal life is a trainwreck, to put it lightly.

As for Bruce, it's also no secret that the local Hong Kong government has made precisely zero effort in actually recognizing him for his efforts in spearheading their local cinema into international stardom.

[De Ming Li]

15 hours ago, Fist of the Heavenly Sky said:

As for Bruce, it's also no secret that the local Hong Kong government has made precisely zero effort in actually recognizing him for his efforts in spearheading their local cinema into international stardom.

This bit is particularly disappointing/depressing. Hong Kong Government, SHAME ON YOU!!!