Japanese film fight choreography

[Guest MacLeod613]

When it comes to straight unarmed combat fight choreogrpahy, How does Japanese fight choreography compare to...say, HK choreography? Are there any general differences, are some choreographers better than others, etc?

[Guest GwaiLoMoFo]

Most of the Japanese MA films I watch are almost strictly Samurai. But the most of the unarmed MA films Ive seen are all Chiba films. The fight choreography in his is more direct and not near as stylized as HK films. Almost more like the bloody basher films. You also will not see a fight sequence that goes on for 5-10 min without either fighter even touching each other. I guess its as simple as comparing Chinese Kung Fu to Japanese Karate.

[Guest MacLeod613]

In the samurai films, what are the swordfights like? Are they long drawn-out duels like in Errol Flynn swashbucklers, or are they more quick and to the point like the fights in "Yojimbo?" (the only samurai movie I've seen so far)

[Guest kungfusamurai]

From my experience there are different styles that only started paralleling HK choreography in the early 80's.

The swordplay films from the 60's to early 70's feature lots of slashing and striking down of multiple opponents. You rarely saw a one on one duel that lasted more than a few moves, unlike in HK films where it could stretch for a good 10 to 15 minutes in a finale. But HK choreography was more like dancing whereas japanese samurai film choreography was more brutal and somewhat realistic.

With empty hand fighting, there wasn't very much pre-Sonny Chiba's streetfighter. It usually looked clumsy and weak. The only guy that kind of looked good using the fist was Tomisaburo Wakayama in that Killer Priest series. But those films (as well as his others) were all about him and his sword.

The Sonny Chiba/Toei stuff from the mid 70's was pretty much like samurai film choreography. Somewhat realistic, in that the fights were in spurts and the multiple opponents would be taken down in few moves, with brief pauses within the fight. The one on one duels weren't that good (at least I don't find them as interesting as HK film choreography). The way the cameras filmed the fights also made a difference, with some films shooting from one angle using wide shots, while others used extreme zooms and shakey cameras.

By the early 80's, Sonny Chiba had fine tuned his JAC's fighting style which became more like HK, using lots of acrobatics (flips) and continuous fighting. The is most evident in the Kage No Gundan TV series, but you can also see it in Shogun's Ninja. Personally, I think the HK style choreography worked better with ninjas fighting than with samurais.

For myself, when it comes to swordplay, I prefer the japanese style for it's brutality and less emphasis on more fantasy elements like flying (although Ogami Itto of Lone Wolf & Cub did some pretty crazy jumps). For empty hand fighting, the best stuff was definitely found in the HK films. I think appreciation of the fight choreography in the Japanese films is easier if you're generally interested in seeing karate styles, such as Shorinji Kempo, used on film.

KFS

[Guest GwaiLoMoFo]

Good stuff KFS! I would agree 100% with your post. The Post 80's JAC stuff did start moving towards a more HK like action choreography. Like Iga Ninpocho (Shogun's Ninja), Shogun's Shadow, and Makai Tensho (Samurai Reincarnation). All which featured longer fight sequences with more acrobatics. Some of the Zatoichi's and Lone Wolf's (personal fav) had some longer fight sequences. But mostly because they were taking on large groups of attackers. Which they ususally disposed of in 1 or 2 moves per opponent. And KFS already covered everything else I was gonna say.

[Guest kungfusamurai]

Thanks!

The fastest and best examples of good Japanese sword choreography is anything where Shintaro Katsu (Zatoichi) or Tomisaborou Wakayama (Lone Wolf) are wielding the sword. They were the best. The next best guys to watch are Sonny Chiba (his Kage No Gundan swordplay is incredible); Toshiro Mifune; Tatsuya Nakadai; and Hiroyuki Sanada (he seemed to prefer daggers in those late 70's/early 80's flicks, but did a great job in Twilight Samurai).

KFS

[Guest MacLeod613]

Alrighty. I'll check some of these out, now that I have an idea what to expect.

Thanks!

[Guest kungfusamurai]

Fortunately with the early Chiba stuff there are a lot of public domain cheapie companies that have put out 3 on 1 etc.. of his films, so you won't be denting your wallet too much if you sample any of the films. It's certainly an acquired taste. You can also find Shogun's Ninja included in some of those same sets, as well as Samurai Reincarnation and Legend of The Eight Samurai. Zatoichi and Lone Wolf & Cub films are more expensive, but are worth the money.

KFS

[Guest Chen Zhen]

no doubt...ive seen sonny chiba films in SOOO many bargain bins, its ridiculous..mostly the street fighter films, shoguns ninja, etc...

one thing that i noticed about japanese choreography in general, is that most of the fighting deals in the "multiple opponents on one" scenario, much more than standard one on one. most of the most memorable jap fights ive seen were all like 5 on one situations or more.

[Guest kungfusamurai]

one thing that i noticed about japanese choreography in general, is that most of the fighting deals in the "multiple opponents on one" scenario, much more than standard one on one. most of the most memorable jap fights ive seen were all like 5 on one situations or more.

HK films also have them, but they are the bread and butter of Japanese films. Lots of disposible bad guys for the good guy to dispense with various moves and techniques. The final one on one confrontations usually only happen after the good guy has killed all of the leader's killers. And the leader is usually not much of a fighter, unlike in HK films where they are the toughest fighters.

KFS

[Linn1]

The unavailable karate films made in the 40s-60s. These films like Lightning Strike Karate were akin to the Wong Fei Hung films in Hong Kong ie they were the place where Chiba's streetfighter and even some of the Yakuza films came from. Until we see these "lost" films, it's hard to say where the films we love came from and how much influence these karate films had.