The Master (aka The Final Master) (2015)

[robbie]

 

 

[ShaOW!linDude]

49 minutes ago, robbie said:

I just meant wirework in a normal Kung full film being used as a  Trick. .  Then just progressing and using wirework more and more.  It was not until.once upon a time in China that I really saw it used so much.

If you say novels have them flying then fine it does not make me enjoy it. 

I realise you lot know they can not float through trees It is just a step to far for me.

And I completely relate to that. In the realm of sci-fi/fantasy, wuxia flicks are not my thing either. I do make a distinction though. Some films are just blatantly wire-work heavy which annoys the fire out of me. Other films however may employ wire-assistance like for impacts, falls, and certain aerial moves. I tend to be more lenient towards those depending on if the execution delivers a certain amount of "realism" that I'm willing to buy into. Other times, wire-assisted moves can be so over the top and just plain stupid that it takes me right out of the film.

All I'm saying is that a generalized dismissal of wuxia films is fine. I do so. However, there are some that aren't complete wire fests and utilize it favorably. But that is dependent on the taste of the viewer. By the same token, there are tons of MA films with grounded choreography that is absolutely abysmal. But that doesn't detract from that sub-genre of films as a whole.

 

22 minutes ago, robbie said:

When apart from Donnie yen have not been many good ones lately.

Oh, man. Yen's output the last 10 years or more has been heavily wire-worked: Wuxia, Bodyguards & Assassins, and Kung Fu Killer to name a few. Oh, and all the Ip Man films contain wire-work or wire-assists in them. (Table top fight in Ip Man 2, anyone?) If you can consider his films as a sort of litmus to go by, then surely you could come to appreciate the same techniques in others.

 

22 minutes ago, robbie said:

I was hoping for more hand-to-hand Wing Chun choreography, and less of the whole knife-fighting scenes. But it is what it is, and I thought it

Regarding the portion of @Ah_Tao's quote you cited:

I get that. I thought the Wing Chun portrayed was fairly good. But I do admit to being a sucker for butterfly swords, and it's been a while since those have been showcased in a movie, so I personally really enjoyed that aspect of it and thought it contained some of the best choreography using that weapon I've seen in a long time.

[Ah_Tao]

1 hour ago, robbie said:

I feel they maybe a bit biased towards hong Kong films. When apart from Donnie yen have not been many good ones lately.

I actually enjoyed Ip Man: The Final Fight very much. I honestly think that it was quite underrated for its type, whether if people are biased towards Donnie Yen or not. I'm not treating the man like a god, nor do I think do I think he should be treated as one. As for his most recent ones, most are actually enjoyable imo, with exception for (sorry to those enjoy) Special ID, and 14 Blades. I'm a huge fan of Sleeping Dogs, and I hope that he don't screw up one of the best games in the past decade. 

Like I said, I thought this movie was alright. What I didn't like was that I found that many aspects were strange (take the armor, the huge broadswords, etc). I wasn't the biggest fan of Master Chen (ie wanting his student to treat him like a God just to pass down Wing Chun), but I could also get the fact that he wanted to protect his wife. 

Xu Haofeng does have a bit of a strange sense of screenwriting, which does aim to go for old-school martial arts films. If you've seen the Sword Identity, you'd know what I mean. I definitely know robbie that you would despise of it, just check out the last fight scene.

[robbie]

 

 I derailed thread sorry. 

 

 

[Drunken Monk]

“War of Arrows” is far from an arthouse film. If anything, it’s a tight little cat-and-mouse action-drama. I wouldn’t say there’s really much that’s arthouse about it other than it’s well filmed. But well filmed doesn’t necessarily mean artsy.

To each his own. You’re entitled to your opinion. I find your statement about “Undisputed III” utterly mind-boggling but if that’s what you think, that’s what you think. I won’t argue the merits of “Undisputed III” against, oh I don’t know, “The Raid” for example.

You keep repeating that you have seems “tons” of action films. No offense but so have 99% of the members of this board. I think we share that in common. I wouldn’t say the person that’s seen the most is immediately awarded the “best opinion”.

[robbie]

On 10/02/2018 at 3:58 AM, Drunken Monk said:

 

 

[Drunken Monk]

My opinion? IMDB is a terrible site for “scores”. But that’s just my opinion. Although, I certainly see what you’re getting at. Touché.

As for your comments on “The Raid”, you’re just flat-out wrong. Garett Evans has an incredible eye for cinema (exhibited more in the sequel, granted). “The Raid” is VASTLY superior to anything Isaac Florentine has done.

I wouodn’t say “The Killer” comes close to being an arthouse flick. There’s little art instilled in it.

But hey, this is getting mundane. For us and for others reading it, I imagine. It’s just two people saying “This is better. No, this is better”. You’re entitled to your opinion. Neither of us are going to PROVE to the other, something’s better. I originally just wanted to tackle your disregard towards arthouse kung fu films and wuxia.

So, it’s cool. You like what you like. We all have different tastes on here, I suppose.

[One Armed Boxer]

There's an alarming amount of misinformation on this thread.

On 2/9/2018 at 8:49 AM, robbie said:

As for crouching tiger i could never understand them flying through air in martial arts films..I just thought in Hong Kong they  were struggling to top the moves they had done before or some of actors were notnup to the old standard  so needed wires..  which are probably the reasons for it

'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' isn't a Hong Kong movie, it was a co-production between Taiwan and Hollywood.

22 hours ago, robbie said:

Wolf warriors 2 was first film hong Kong  in a long time were wires were not so noticeable .That contributed  greatly to its success in my opinion. No flying nonsense.

'Wold Warrior 2' isn't a Hong Kong movie, it's a Mainland production.

18 hours ago, robbie said:

I feel they maybe a bit biased towards hong Kong films. When apart from Donnie yen have not been many good ones lately.

'The Final Master' isn't a Hong Kong movie, it's also a Mainland production.

This thread could be of interest to you - 

12 hours ago, robbie said:

If you want an arthouse film i would try korean flick war of arrows.

'War of the Arrows' was one of the biggest mainstream Korean blockbusters of 2011, it's as much of an arthouse film as 'Hard Boiled' is a romantic comedy.

22 hours ago, robbie said:

Drunken master 2 does use wires but they tried to hide it  and the moves all are possible. He does not fly 40 foot through air. Jackie Chan in an interview said  he would only use wirework to enhance some moves and not fly through air as even he thought it was daft.

'Drunken Master 2' isn't a wuxia flick, so why would it be a surprise that he doesn't fly 40 feet through the air?  Do you have an example of a kung-fu movie that isn't a wuxia in which people fly 40 feet through the air?

PS Chan changed his mind about that a looooooong time ago - 

 

22 hours ago, robbie said:

When they originally made  normal action films  at some point  they started using wires to enhance and in some cases trick people with  a few impossible moves.   I feel they just got carried away with wirework.  If I am wrong  and came from novels big deal it is still stupid for a character to take off into air with no explanation.

Yes, you're wrong, and explanations have been provided as to why by both myself & @ShaOW!linDude - 

On 2/10/2018 at 1:54 AM, One Armed Boxer said:

Wuxia has existed for more than 2000 years, and has always alluded to tales of chivalrous martial arts heroes with enhanced powers that allowed them to, amongst other things, fly.

On 2/9/2018 at 11:59 AM, ShaOW!linDude said:

However, to put it in a rather simple perspective, a lot of wuxia films are based on or inspired by wuxia novels of old. And those characters are kind of super-heroic. Wuxia novels are essentially dramatic Chinese sci-fi/fantasy books, therefore the characters can often do fantastic things like super leaps, running along walls or treetops, fly, fire energy bursts of chi, be skilled in magic or have magical weapons, etc.

 

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

SCHOOOOOOOLED!!!

[robbie]

On 10/02/2018 at 4:54 PM, TibetanWhiteCrane said:

 

 

 

[Drunken Monk]

I don’t think we’re trying to invalidate your opinions, but saying you don’t like “artsy” films immediately makes you more biased when it comes to not liking “The Grandmaster” and their ilk. You’re already committed to semi-disliking a film because you don’t like arthouse movies. As a sidepoint, I’d like to point out that “The Grandmaster” and “The Final Master” featured little to no flying. Just home wire enhanced hits.

I also find it a little ironic that you dislike the stories of these films and yet celebrate “Undisputed III” so heavily. It’s not exactly Shakespeare, is it? But I get it, you’re a simple man with simple tastes. You just want to see people get punched in the face and you don’t really care for metaphor or having to read between the lines.

[Fist of the Heavenly Sky]

I don't think I can contribute much to the discussion here, other than to re-state my opinion that I thought the movie was so-so. Absolutely phenomenal fights, but withered down by a very uneven storyline and character development (Even if Liao Fan's performance was a strong one and I certainly look forward to seeing him in more martial arts flicks in the future). I honestly would've preferred if they had just included a very basic happy ending for the main characters as opposed to just leaving the story in a stalemate where, besides lots of bones being shattered, absolutely nothing else has changed. I suppose they wanted to leave room for a potential sequel, but still.

[robbie]

On 11/02/2018 at 2:53 AM, Drunken Monk said:

I don’t think we’re trying to invalidate your opinions, 

 

I felt I derailed thread so much so I have gone back deleted alot of  my earlier opinions but left my review. Sorry

 It is only movie  and I did  not research  movie origins or genres.. I  just watch them for enjoyment.

Regarding final master. The loaves bread analogy,  with  u reaching some sort of kungfu enlightenment. why would eating 4 loaves of bread in a sitting  have any relevance to being a wing chun topdog.

All they are saying is becoming a master is   difficult and  eating 4 loaves of bread in 1 sitting is difficult  . As a mataphor it is a silly simplistic one .A metaphor   is supposed to be used as a symbol for something else. but it needs to have more intelligence behind it  than that really.

My view was based on it purely as a martial arts films. Its look and tone was similar to ip man but not so good.  Arthouse just means it is an independent film that is meant to be taken  serious and not a piece of popular entertainment.  

I think it did achieve its goal in not providing popular entertainment . Story is as follows, The last wing chun weapons  man  wants the prestige of defeating 8 masters to open is wing chun school but if he defeats them, he must die as brings dishonor to the city.  So he trains a pupil to fight 4 him  That's one silly convoluted story.. . Plot sounds more suited to comedy Kung fu.

Fights are slow. They may be realistic but  very boring and have no  tension.  Characters are all  uninteresting .Surprised they could  keeping a serious straight face throughout  so must be good actors. 

So all in all it is one boring movie.   My rating is  half a loaf of Kung fu out of 4 

Don't waste your dough on it.

Off topic 

The killer is considered arthouse action in West so not totally wrong . The guy who said no art  in killer is way off .. The dove symbolism probably flew right over is head.

Never said drunken master 2 was wuxia. Crouching tiger as hong Kong crew so a hong Kong film to me. My points were valid even if trying to school me.

 Wires should only be used for safety or to exaggerate a move slightly that is possible.  Not keen on seeing wires used  for   impossible moves ,  jumping or  floating  with  no explanation  even if from a 2000 year old book.  

[DragonClaws]

 

[DragonClaws]

Well I eventually got round to watching this one last night, and first impressions are, what an awsome movie. Loved it from start to finish, and the two hour run time breezed by. Some great performances all round, nice quirky soundtrack, that can be a repetative at times, but we will forgive it that. The fight choreography looked fresh and stylish, both brutual and powerful at times too. Proves you can have some excellent knife heavy screen combat, with out gallons of computerized claret being used. Both actress Li Xia and Liao Fan as The Master, had a good chemistry and brought nice characterization to their roles. I can see why this might not be for ever fan, but love it or loath it, the film stands out from many Martial Arts flcisk out there.

 

Master Chen Shi(Liao Fan) stops an opponent dead in his tracks, in scene from the finale.

[Fist of the Heavenly Sky]

I might consider rewwtching the movie. I didn't particularly care much for the story especially because the conclusion is so unsatisfying, but all the fights are definitely top notch; not a single one I thought was just average.

[DragonClaws]

35 minutes ago, Fist of the Heavenly Sky said:

I might consider rewwtching the movie. I didn't particularly care much for the story especially because the conclusion is so unsatisfying,

They must have wanted to leave it open to a sequel, thats all I can think?, WARNING SPOIERS AHEAD - he thinks his lady friend has already left town, despite her letting th dog go to show she's still round.