Favorite Finale? 'Drunken Master' & 'Snake in the Eagles Shadow' Or 'Young Master' & 'Dragon Lord'?

[One Armed Boxer]

Judging by the thread title, most of you probably already guessed....so the question is, which finale's get your blood pumping more - Jackie Chan taking on Hwang Jang Lee under the choreography of Yuen Woo Ping in 'Drunken Master' and 'Snake in the Eagles Shadow', or Chan choreographing himself against Whang In-sik in the finales of 'Young Master' and 'Dragon Lord'?

I'll get things kicked off and vote for Chan vs Whang In-sik in his early directorial efforts.  As much as I love watching Hwang Jang Lee unleashing in the movies that made Chan a star, for me the ruthless desperation of the final fights in 'Young Master' and 'Dragon Lord' just have the edge.  In Chan's whole filmography, he's never looked so desperate, against a villain that's so unstoppable, as he does against In-sik, which is a credit to both of their performances.

Give it some thought, share your opinions, and cast your vote!

Drunken Master (1978)

Snake in the Eagles Shadow (1978)

Young Master (1980)

Dragon Lord (1982)

[massa_yoda]

The finales of Young Master and Dragon Lord are more exciting to me.  They both have 'stages/levels' (am I making sense?) to the fights that keep things varied and interesting. Dragon Lord in particular has some great, hard hitting kicks.  I remember that one feeling most painful of all of them...the biggest "ouch" factor.  Whang In-sik is such a beast.  Jackie makes him look practically unstoppable in both films.

[ShaOW!linDude]

I don't count Dragon Lord as having an end fight. That's really nothing but WIS chasing Chan and Mars around inside a barn and putting the smack down on them whenever they get in reach. It's fun to watch stunt-wise because of the falls and impacts, but it's got nothing choreography-wise compared to the other 3. Besides, Whang never knocked any teeth out of Chan's head.

[KenHashibe]

I'm gonna leave my brief verdict of each of these final fights:

• Snake in the Eagle's Shadow-Definitely a good fight scene. Creative choreography, some great acrobatics, and the use of "Cat's Claw" is genuinely hilarious. However, this fight is somewhat anti-climactic and I can't really explain why. I think it's mainly because you know that Jackie Chan is gonna win the fight right from the beginning. There's never a moment you fear that he might lose (unlike the other three which are kinda the opposite). However, it's still a very good fight scene. 7/10 *
• Drunken Master-There's so much to love about this fight scene. Besides the choreography being fantastic, it's also the most important fight in the movie. If Jackie wins this fight, he can finally regain respect from his dad who basically disowns him at the beginning. That reward makes this fight so exciting and there are many points where you're like "Oh, crap, he's screwed." It's also super rewarding to see all of Jackie's training paying off and at this point in the movie, you realize how much he's grown as a character. And even though the fight goes on for about 10 minutes, you never feel it outstays its welcome since Jackie is constantly switching from one drunken god to the next. It's also a really funny fight scene all in all. Easily the best fight of the three. 9.5/10

Speaking of outstaying its welcome...

• Young Master-Man, what a fight scene; possibly the longest continuous one-on-one fight in any movie ever, lasting about 18 minutes long. And for the most part, it's amazing and really exciting. Whang In-Shik's skills are amazing and the choreography is refreshingly untraditional. It's less flashy and is instead somewhat more realistic. Basically, Jackie is trying to beat his opponent in any way/style he possibly can, which makes this fight really funny. Are there points where it feels the fight drags for a bit? Yeah. But for some reason, it's still amazing. Jackie really gets his ass handed to him. His persistence and his somewhat unexpected victory make it really exciting. Every time I see it, I wanna go out and fight anyone who stands in my way. 8.5/10
• Dragon Lord-Another super long fight scene (about 12 minutes long), and features untraditional and more realistic fight choreography, just like the fight in Young Master. I could probably repeat exactly what I wrote for the Young Master fight, except this one doesn't really overstay its welcome. It feels just about the right length and features some incredible stunts. I love Jackie's persistence, Whang In-Shik's skills are still amazing, the fight is really funny, and it's overall just really exciting. 8.5/10

 

Snake in the Eagle's Shadow and Drunken Master: 16.5/20

Young Master and Dragon Lord: 17/20

If the question was just "Which is the best finale?" and not combined with its sister film, Drunken Master definitely would've taken the cake.

*I hope it's clear that these scores out of 10 are for the fight scene itself, not the actual movie.

Edited April 9, 2017 by KenHashibe

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Love Hwang Jang Lee... he's the dog's bollocks, the cat's pajamas and all that jazz, but I gotta go with Whang In Sik on this one. 

The fight finales in DM and SITES, while inventive and energetic, are pretty standard stuff for '78. I can name plenty of fights on par with, or better, from that year.

But nothing looked like the end fights from Young Master and Dragon Lord in '80 and '82 respectively. The sheer amount of gags, fun little touches and least of all stunt work in those two fights are phenomenal. It's not just your bog standard Kung Fu choreo of exchanges till someone drops, it's like a study in screen fighting, with the added twist that Jackie's character can't really fight (odd as that is in both movies since he aquits himself rather athletically earlier on) at least not on par with the villain. For some people that detracts from their enjoyment, for me it adds to it. It's something new, and makes JC rely on other tools than just matching skills with his opponent.

[DragonClaws]

Man this is a tough question, I like all four fights for different reasons. The Dragon Lord/Young Master finales I find the most excitng. Yet the final encounters in SITES & DM are equally as good because of the superb choreography. I feel Jackie Chan later combined the best of the two different sets of fights fights, in his early 80's movies. Mixing both wild stunts with strong choreography.

[sym8]

This is tough,I prefer snake in the eagles shadow finale over drunken master but I absolutely loved the finale of Dragon lord because it was different.Jackies character wasn't a Kung fu master who could kick ass but an average guy who didn't give up and some of the hits and falls were high in the ouch department so I think I would choose young master and dragon lord but my overall favourite is dragon lord

[mpm74]

Tough question. This is like picking my favorite gang bang scene. 

Without beating around the bush too much, my vote goes to Young Master/Dragon Lord, especially when thinking "which finale's get your blood pumping".

Although these fights are less fluid and more gimmicky than Drunken Master/Snake, I consider them the sweet spot of Jackie's "kung fu film" era, which shouldn't come as a surprise, considering they're the tail end of a 3-4 year period where Jackie (regardless of choreographer) extends the limits of what was possible (physically, craft-wise and in length). And this became more and more evident with each film after the next. Young Master/Dragon Lord suffer from being "stop and go", but you can't deny that Chan is at his unconventional best. Young Master's fight is downright gritty. And you can see (literally) Chan's blood pumping as he becomes an unstoppable/uncontrollable beast. It's presented that Hwang In Sik's character is the better fighter, but because Jackie transforms into a maniac, Hwang In Sik becomes caught off guard and scared. His face and demeanor spell out "Holy sh*t, this guy is a psycho. Get me the f*ck away from this nut case". And Dragon Lord... the first end fight where Jackie makes use of props around him, once again, pushing the envelope. Very innovative stuff.

Anyone who jerks off to the fight scenes in The Raid, Ong Bak, Yip Man or Blood Fist II need to revisit all of these Jackie Chan classics. 

I'm glad to be a part of this. 

BTW, here's a creamy Korean treat from the man himself:

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by mpm74

[CT KID]

Actually my favorites are a pick from both categories, l like the finales of Drunken Master and Young Master the best. Being a fan of kicking because I'm a Taekwondo stylist, I love Drunken Master's end fight because Hwang unleashes his full berage of kicks against Jackie and is more entertaining than his fight in SITES because Hwang is using more of the Eagle Claw hand techniques and not as much kicks. The Young Master shows Whang In Sik at his absolute best with showing his mastery of Hapkido by getting to show the full range of techniques from that style from kicking, hand strikes, elbows/knees and grappling. Dragon Lord was not as exciting to me and was more of an ugly brawl especially since Jackie's character was not really showing skills but fighting off raw courage. Jackie was probably shooting for a more realistic fight in that movie but in martial arts films I want to see the beauty of the techniques, I'll watch the UFC for the ugly reality of combat lol. 

[ukrevrend]

For me it has to be DM/SITES! for purely 'kung fu movie' reasons.  I had the pleasure of viewing all these classic's when they were first released and in that era kung fu movies meant kung fu fights! DM & SITES I actually saw in the cinema, so for me a 'kung fu movie' has to have a kung fu fight at the the end, not a brawl!  I'll be honest I was left so disappointed when I saw Young Master and especially Dragon Lord, they actually put me off Jackie Chan films, especially if he was in the directors chair. For me the ultimate showdown should be all about the fighter(s) & their kung fu skill, styles, shapes & techniques (as CT KID say's).

Bless

Edited April 11, 2017 by ukrevrend
wrong word

[DrNgor]

3 hours ago, ukrevrend said:

For me it has to be DM/SITES! for purely 'kung fu movie' reasons.  I had the pleasure of viewing all these classic's when they were first released and in that era kung fu movies meant kung fu fights! DM & SITES I actually saw in the cinema, so for me a 'kung fu movie' has to have a kung fu fight at the the end, not a brawl!  I'll be honest I was left so disappointed when I saw Young Master and especially Dragon Lord, they actually put me off Jackie Chan films, especially if he was in the directors chair. For me the ultimate showdown should be all about the fighter(s) & their kung fu skill, styles, shapes & techniques (as CT KID say's).

While my reaction to The Young Master and Dragon Lord, wasn't as Strong as yours, I find myself in a similar camp. Both of those movies, plus Fearless Hyena to a lesser extent, were made as Chan was trying to "throw off the shackles" imposed by traditional kung fu movie choreography, so they're something of a different beast than his two collaborations with Yuen Woo-Ping. However, while Whang In-Sik looks wonderful in those fights, Chan's ultimate comeback in both of them does not bring me to catharsis I would like after watching him take so much of a beating. I have similar feelings about his ultimate victory of Benny Lai in Police Story 2.

In my opinion, the very best one-on-one fights are those that give us a great showcase for both fighters involved. While YM and DL are great showcases for Jackie Chan the Choreographer, they're but average showcases for Jackie Chan the Screen Fighter. On the other hand, both SITES and DM, especially the latter, give us wonderful exhibitions of Legendary Superkicker Hwang Jang Lee's kicking skills and Jackie's acrobatic, Southern style-inspired talents. Chan is great in both, although the former fight is a little abbreviated because of the knocked-out tooth, I presume.

[sym8]

8 hours ago, ukrevrend said:

For me it has to be DM/SITES! for purely 'kung fu movie' reasons.  I had the pleasure of viewing all these classic's when they were first released and in that era kung fu movies meant kung fu fights! DM & SITES I actually saw in the cinema, so for me a 'kung fu movie' has to have a kung fu fight at the the end, not a brawl!  I'll be honest I was left so disappointed when I saw Young Master and especially Dragon Lord, they actually put me off Jackie Chan films, especially if he was in the directors chair. For me the ultimate showdown should be all about the fighter(s) & their kung fu skill, styles, shapes & techniques (as CT KID say's).

Bless

I get what you are saying and kinda agree but my personal opinion is by the time he came to young master and especially dragon lord he had run out of ideas for the traditional Kung fu movie fight sequence and decided to do something different and I loved that,but saying that I'd love to see him make a Kung fu movie today like the old ways now that would be special.

[paimeifist]

I haven’t seen Dragon Lord yet.

 

w/r/t the other 3 films, Drunken Master’s finale is EASILY the best to me. Hwang Jang Lee is in top form with fluid yet high intensity kicks, and Jackie is displaying his acrobatics and strutting his stuff too.

 

SITES has a solid finale, but doesn’t really separate itself much from other films to me.
 

The “angry style” gimmick is completely whack to me, so for me The Young Masters finale basically serves as a demo of Hwang In-Shiks kicking rather than a fight... I enjoy a good ol’ scuffle better.

Edited August 10, 2020 by paimeifist

[Cognoscente]

I like Jackie's choreographed stuff better. Even in the early '70s, his basher fights had a sharper feel to them than Yuen Woo-Ping's.