Ip Man 4: Donnie Yen, Scott Adkins, Grace Englert, Mark Strange, Chan Kwok-Kwan, Jim Liu (2019)

[ShaOW!linDude]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:31 AM, OpiumKungFuCracker said:

Oh sweet jesus! I trust your reviews more than I trust my own momma!!! Ok I will see this on the 24th!!! 

As always, you are owning me. That is a bold statement for @One Armed Boxer's reviews, but when it comes to MA films, I have to concur.

[hardz]

So who went to the Premiere screening @ Hackney with Scott Adkins and Mark Strange?

[Drunken Monk]

I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. More than I thought I was going to.

I think it walks an interesting line with Donnie giving us a quiet, somber performance and Scott Adkins giving us a hilariously over the top villain. But those two opposing characters make for a good time, oddly. It’s both dramatic and silly.

As for the fight, Woo Ping outdid himself. I think this film features some of the best fights of the series. The one-armed fight is very memorable and the final showdown is blistering.

It suffers from a flabby side-plot here and there but, otherwise, a consistently entertaining martial arts film. Two thumbs up.

[SamSeed]

Well I had to change my screening to next Thursday but the upside is I'm at least now going with my Godfather who loves Fu films. Oh also Scott Adkins and Mark Strange did a Q&A after a UK screening a few days ago:

 

[Drunken Monk]

One thing I found interesting about the film is the choreography. If you compare Master Z to Ip Man 4, the fights, in my eyes, are considerably different. Despite Woo Ping choreographing both films. While I like Master Z, I feel like Wilson Yip really know how to work the camera and gave the action sequences more life.

[DiP]

Woo Ping directed Master Z while his brother Shun Yee was the main action director. Shun Yee was involved with the action in Ip Man 4 but as action choreographer. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by DiP

[Drunken Monk]

3 minutes ago, DiP said:

Woo Ping directed Master Z while his brother Shun Yee was the main action director. Shun Yee was involved with the action in Ip Man 4 but as action choreographer. 

Ah...makes sense! I thought Woo Ping directed the action on Master Z too. Interesting.

[SamSeed]

DVD now available to order in the UK on Amazon for £7 or Blu Ray for £10! No release date given though.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ip-Man-4-Finale-DVD/dp/B082XSGL6N/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=ip+man+4&qid=1577394710&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ip-Man-Finale-Blu-ray-Region/dp/B082XSFVSL/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=ip+man+4+blu+ray&qid=1577394962&sprefix=ip+man+4&sr=8-1

Edited December 26, 2019 by SamSeed

[sifu iron perm]

I enjoyed this one! Action scenes were cool nothing original I guess but good continuation!

My man Scott was a badass!

Donnie..muchos Gracias, thank you sir! 

Grand closure to the franchise!

Master Yuen woo ping is a true legend! I watched this in the heart of the west end, London..next to Chinatown. The audience crowd were 70 percent Chinese folks.. plenty of applauding, cheering and laughter.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by sifu iron perm

[AlbertV]

I interviewed co-star David Johnson Wood, who appears a military officer in the film. He's an ex-,Marine turned actor and is the founder of an outdoor gear company in Hong Kong. 

https://worldfilmgeek.com/2020/01/01/from-marine-to-actor-an-interview-with-david-johnson-wood/

[KUNG FU BOB]

My son and I went to see this on New Year's Day, as we figured what better way to start the new year? In anticipation of the new film we had re-watched and really enjoyed the first three, though I do feel that films two and three have their weak moments, mostly involving out of place wire-work. Most especially the incredibly disappointing tabletop fight in the second film, which should have been a standout sequence as it involved Yen going up against several Hong Kong action cinema Legends. Donnie fighting Lo Meng, "The Toad" from FIVE VENOMS (and a veteran of many Chang Cheh Shaw Brothers classics) should've been a showstopper. It isn't. However, unlike a lot of people, I think IP MAN 3 is really good, and would argue that the end duel is one of the best kung fu sequences committed to film in decades. I always kind of scratch my head in confusion at people saying that they did not like this film at all.

 

As for IP MAN 4, I've got to say, I am really shocked at the great reviews that it is getting because aside from the action (most of it anyway) I did not think it was very good. When it was over, thinking "Is it just me?", I turned to my son and said "Did you like it?", and he just said "No" and actually looked kind of pissed off. The plot and story are such a jumbled mess that it feels like one of those releases from Tai Seng where they condense an entire TV series into a "movie". The plot went a lot of places that I did not care about, and did not go to places that the story definitely needed it to go. The tension between Ip Man and his son Ip Ching (his eldest son, Ip Chung, depicted in the earlier films is never mentioned at all, nor are the two daughters he also had ever acknowledged in the entire film series) should have been fleshed out. The way it stands now, he is just a belligerent teenager, and we only (sort of) find out what the problem between them is (and still, the "why" of it is never explained) in the final moments of the movie, long after any drama related to it would have any meaning. The way that the Department of Immigration, The US Marines and the Chinese Benevolent Association were presented was so laughable that it felt like how elementary school children would write them. Another complaint is that it often feels like the main character is sidelined while we look at a lot of other characters that we don't care nearly as much about.

 

I've seen a lot of people complaining about this film (and other kung fu flicks), here on the forum and elsewhere, about the depiction of Caucasian characters and their racism in Hong Kong/Chinese films. I don't have a problem with movies that focus on this time period continuing to make this a major plot point because IT WAS (and sadly still is, though perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree) something that was a major part of people's lives. When a country goes to another country and rules them, there's always going to be animosity, and there was absolutely rampant racism towards the Chinese in Hong Kong from the British, and equally from the Americans here in the States. I do however think it's a shame that for whatever reason (for the most part) Hong Kong filmmakers continue to feel that they have to drop any sense of nuance or actual realism in the performances from Caucasian actors playing these roles, instead turning them into ridiculous cartoons. It diminishes what should be a very serious and emotionally compelling subject when it is made to seem silly. If director Wilson Yip had allowed Scott Adkins, who is a fine actor, to play the racist drill sergeant with the same realism that Donny Yen gets to play his role, I think it would have made everything that happened between them much more powerful. The way that the African-American character of Billy (one of Bruce Lee's students) was presented was an especially cringe-worthy caricature, and audience members laughed at almost every line he said. The director had the actor play the character so over the top that it was like something from a children's film. A shame, because the actor (couldn't figure out his name- no listing for "Billy" on IMDB) had a chance to show off a few of his martial arts moves and he looks like a very skilled guy. I'm glad that the horrible racism was shown (however disturbing it is to witness), and that an attempt was made to promote equality among all races, however ham-fisted it may be here.

 

Another thing that people complain about that did not bother me is how historically inaccurate the entire thing is when depicting Ip Man. I thought it was made clear in the first movie that this was not in any way supposed to be a realistic autobiographical depiction of the character (enjoyable as that may have been). It is much more like the films about Wong Fei-Hung; based on a real person, but works of fiction simply meant to entertain. Yes, the people that know a little bit about Ip Man are well aware that he never went to the United States, that Bruce Lee never attended his funeral, etc. Not having to worry about sticking to the facts should have given the four screenplay writers plenty of room to concoct a well-thought out and entertaining story. It should have.

 

Now for the positive aspects... The cinematography and production design is lush, filled with brilliant colors, and a surprisingly convincing looking period San Francisco Chinatown. Donnie Yen is excellent here, once again, both in his acting and physical performances (though I definitely felt like he was not given as much to do as he should have been). There are some rousing action scenes, but even these, especially in the first half of the film seem to be missing something, and largely did not have much of an impact on me. Wu Yue, who I last saw kicking major ass in PARADOX (2017), is impressive here playing a Tai Chi master and head of the CBA. Chris Collins (who looks like his punches land like cannonballs) is strong once again playing a brutal fighter that gets to match his character's karate skills against multiple kung fu styles. This scene includes a nice bit of female empowerment in the form of actress Zhou Xiao Fei (whom I've only ever seen before in THE GRANDMASTER, 2013) as the lone female master. Wow, she certainly has the skills, and I hope to see a lot more of her! Danny Chan does a good job of playing Bruce Lee (though no one has ever played his postures and mannerisms better than Sammo Hung), and has a cool fight with the extremely intimidating Mark Strange. Nunchaku in the film- yay! Scott Adkins is fantastic as usual, absolutely lighting up the screen with his skills, and his on-screen battle with Yen (long awaited for many of us fans) does have some spectacular moments. Regarding One Armed Boxers Cityonfire.com review (https://cityonfire.com/ip-man-4-the-finale-2019-review/#comments), although I am usually a little bit easier to please than he is, more often than not, I tend to heartily agree with his reviews. So after seeing the film I checked out his take on it and was actually shocked at the rating that he gave it. I do agree with some of Paul's comments (his description of Adkins' performance is right on the money), but I would like to comment on the last line in his review where he says "Oh, and in case anyone is wondering – yes, there’s chain punches." Yes, it's true that there are chain punches; a Wing Chun technique which has become a bit of a high point man in these film's combat sequences. But I want to point out that during the climactic fight when Ip Man unleashes the much-loved chain punch, they actually cut away in the middle of it to instead show the audience's reaction, while we only hear the technique. When I saw this I thought "Really, are you kidding?!" This is just one little example of the many perplexing choices that the filmmakers made here. (No offense intended Paul, I respect your opinions. Much love brother.)

 

I'm sure I will come back to this topic and hope to discuss it with you guys more, but for now I have to get back to work. In closing, I really wanted to love this film (and expected that at the very least I would enjoy it a lot), but that was not the case. Normally after watching one of these films I immediately want to re-watch it. If not the whole thing, certainly the action sequences. But when this was over I felt like I was simply done with it and left the theater feeling bummed out. I've watched thousands of kung fu films over many decades, and I am used to the fact that a large amount of them are lacking in most every department except the action scenes. But director Wilson Yip has made films that are much more than that, with the previous films being well-made productions- real films- with stories and characters I care about, so I was not prepared for that sort of thing with IP MAN 4. For me it is easily the weakest of the four films, feeling more like a cheap old-school flick with great fights framed by a story with little thought or reason put into it. I do truly hope that everybody else enjoys it much more than I did.

[Drunken Monk]

I've read a lot of people's views on the fourth installment and many seem to be upset with the each of the western actors' characters and dialog. Weirdly, I loved it. It took me back to the 90's era when cheese was ever present in kung fu cinema. And, more importantly, FUN. I get that everyone wanted their solemn Ip Man fight against honorable masters or at least some form of realistic tension. Me? I lapped up the silliness of Ip Man 4 like a kitten to a bowl of milk. I liked the departure from the first three films (whether it was on purpose or not).

Sure, it was flabby and some side-plots went nowhere (I agree with @KUNG FU BOB. Ip Ching just seemed like a petulant dickhead), but I loved it because it did the "evil gweilo" the way they should be done; with a heavy dose of tongue in cheek.

The contrast between the more "straight faced" parts of the film and the goofiness made it feel like a breath of fresh air for me. I got to appreciate the realistic drama as it played out but I also got to titter at Bruce Lee, complete with screams and nunchucks, fighting a dude, in full gi, in a San Francisco alley. The more I think about this film, the more I appreciate that it's not like the first three in every way.

I do understand it won't be everyone's cup of tea though. I agree that the sole black actor in the film was the most cringe worthy thing I've seen in quite some time. I can see why some people might not be able to take this fairly serious franchise mixed with a slice of 90's-style silliness. Me? I loved how daft it was. Give me Scott Adkins chewing scenery any day. Give me Chris Collins yelling at a volume no man should be able to reach. I'm on board for the Ip Man series being shaken up a little. Again, whether on purpose or not, I don't know.

At the end of the day, I appreciate all opinions on this one. I kind of like how some people love it and some people don't. It makes for some interesting talking points.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

Just got back from the cinemas and I think this is the best Ip Man since the 1st one. Yes the story is completely fabricated and cringe dialogue especially the high school scenes with the principal's office and the cheerleader side story but damn I had fun. Is it just me or the Sound F/X was turned up to about 1000 octaves in this? Every punch and kick felt like WW3 and shit, lmao. All the bruce lee scenes were my favorite, I hope they let Danny play him in the movies.

My Ranking Ip Man, Ip Man 4. Don't even bother with the parts 2 and 3. Those are obsolete now. 

LOL @KUNG FU BOB This movie does feel like a Splice together Tai Seng tv movie. The western actors in this were hilarious.  Please go see this in theaters and have a good time. Forget parts 2 and 3.

Who played Yue Wu's daughter in this movie? I thought she was adorable as all heck.

[Drunken Monk]

20 minutes ago, OpiumKungFuCracker said:

Who played Yue Wu's daughter in this movie? I thought she was adorable as all heck.

Her name is Vanda Margraf. I think this is her first movie.

[One Armed Boxer]

6 hours ago, KUNG FU BOB said:

Most especially the incredibly disappointing tabletop fight in the second film, which should have been a standout sequence as it involved Yen going up against several Hong Kong action cinema Legends. Donnie fighting Lo Meng, "The Toad" from FIVE VENOMS (and a veteran of many Chang Cheh Shaw Brothers classics) should've been a showstopper. It isn't.

I think this is one of the worst fight scenes of the decade, a concept which landed so far off the mark its an embarassment to watch.  Ironically, I know some people who love it, with one acquaintance going so far as to say Yen and Sammo Hung's tabletop fight is superior to their fight in 'SPL'.  Insanity!  But indeed, the world would be a boring place if we all had the same opinions.  'Ip Man 2' for me is a jingoistic mess and a stain on the series.

6 hours ago, KUNG FU BOB said:

However, unlike a lot of people, I think IP MAN 3 is really good, and would argue that the end duel is one of the best kung fu sequences committed to film in decades. I always kind of scratch my head in confusion at people saying that they did not like this film at all.

Agreed!  'Ip Man 3' moved away from making Ip Man an avatar for Chinese nationalism, and made him human again.  I really enjoyed the relationship with his wife in this one (a character who's pushed so far into the background in 'Ip Man 2' she should never have bothered turning up to set), but more importantly for a kung-fu movie, the fights are outstanding.  Max Zhang, Simon Kook, and Mike Tyson all shine.

6 hours ago, KUNG FU BOB said:

I do however think it's a shame that for whatever reason (for the most part) Hong Kong filmmakers continue to feel that they have to drop any sense of nuance or actual realism in the performances from Caucasian actors playing these roles, instead turning them into ridiculous cartoons. It diminishes what should be a very serious and emotionally compelling subject when it is made to seem silly.

I don't think the blame can be entirely laid at the feet of Hong Kong directors.  The Chinese film landscape has changed a lot in the 10+ years since the first 'Ip Man' came out, with China really becoming a box office juggernaut in the early 10's.  Having caricatured villains was an easy way to get a pass from the SARFT censorship board once Mainland distribution became a must, and since it became the NRTA a couple of years ago (making it an official department of the Chinese Propoganda Office), the foregin devils now need to be even more black and white than ever before.  Chinese audiences don't want to see subtle villains, the louder and brasher the better.  It could be a cultural difference, however we need to remember that, regardless of it it makes a good movie or not, as westerners we're not the primary audience for this movie the same way Hong Kong movies used to give consideration to overseas markets.

6 hours ago, KUNG FU BOB said:

 Regarding One Armed Boxers Cityonfire.com review (https://cityonfire.com/ip-man-4-the-finale-2019-review/#comments), although I am usually a little bit easier to please than he is, more often than not, I tend to heartily agree with his reviews. So after seeing the film I checked out his take on it and was actually shocked at the rating that he gave it. I do agree with some of Paul's comments (his description of Adkins' performance is right on the money), but I would like to comment on the last line in his review where he says "Oh, and in case anyone is wondering – yes, there’s chain punches." Yes, it's true that there are chain punches; a Wing Chun technique which has become a bit of a high point man in these film's combat sequences. But I want to point out that during the climactic fight when Ip Man unleashes the much-loved chain punch, they actually cut away in the middle of it to instead show the audience's reaction, while we only hear the technique. When I saw this I thought "Really, are you kidding?!" This is just one little example of the many perplexing choices that the filmmakers made here. (No offense intended Paul, I respect your opinions. Much love brother.)

Ha ha, love ya back!  Differences in opinion are half the fun of watching movies.

If I could give 'Ip Man 4' a 3-line review, for me Drunken Monk nails it -

On 12/26/2019 at 10:22 AM, Drunken Monk said:

I think it walks an interesting line with Donnie giving us a quiet, somber performance and Scott Adkins giving us a hilariously over the top villain. But those two opposing characters make for a good time, oddly. It’s both dramatic and silly.

 

[SamSeed]

I just saw this and catching up with this thread, wow! I had no idea it would polarise opinion so sharply. As for me? I am in the camp that absolutely loved it, to this extent I would easily put it above 2 and 3 but still below 1. @KUNG FU BOB  I must say I do agree with your points about the tension in the relationship between Ip and his son, it was forced (and as far as I'm concerned, the brat deserved a lot more than the slap Ip gave him!).

Now. The fights. I don't know about anyone else, but for me these fights were some of the best in the series. Why? Quite simply, because the caricature racists were so over the top despicable, nasty and outright evil that seeing them get pummelled by Ip was the most satisfying thing in the whole series. Collins was probably my favourite fight in terms of how deserved the takedown was given what we saw him do. I know Adkins was the big bad, but Collins was the first time we saw Ip genuinely fight to disable and maim in the film, and it was just a punch the air moment (and yes I know some people here don't like them, but the lightning fast chain punches are awesome and I will never get tired of Donnie dishing them out). Speaking of Donnie, this was his most restrained performance yet. The contemplative scenes at the start as he remembered his wife, the internal suffering as he dealt with his diagnosis and his frustration at not being able to connect with his son, perfect. I'm also going to state that I loved the round glass table scene. It's a cliched way of showing how strong they are, but I actually thought 'Oh here we go, round table of masters, come on group fight scene' but I didn't expect the spinning table and it just seemed like a nice touch.

I think the one handed fight is probably my favourite one as a whole because of the dexterity and creativity of the choreography, but then again I am a sucker for scenes where bullies get their asses handed to them so the scene where Ip saves the girl is equally great. In fact, it struck me then - THAT is what the Karate Kid scene with Jackie taking on the kids should have been. Ip actually had to take some serious pain in his arm and he was totally defensive, only swatting with the sticks for comedic effect, and it really distilled Ip's ethical stance.

Now. Adkins. I don;t know how he was directed by Wilson Yip but I assume every scene went like this: "Hey Scott, you know how you just did that line? Is there any chance you could dial it up. Then, once you've got there, could you disregard that and pretend you're in a pantomime, and act as though you have to be seen and heard by people a few miles away? And action!"! I don't think I've seen an actor enjoying himself in a role more this year, I haven't seen the Q&A video with Adkins yet but I'm looking forward to it. And yes, again his character is so awful that when the big brawl finally happens, I thought it absolutely delivered. I don't think we've ever seen Ip suffer as much in a fight and it added a whole extra element of danger and intensity, I was literally on the edge of my seat, and man when Ip decides to go brutal, I felt it in my bones! @Drunken Monk I agree about the choreography too, Yip just known how to film a fight scene with dynamism and make it exciting and pacey whilst retaining fluidity of motion.

Absolutely intend to rewatch as soon as the DVD's out, probably binging all four to compare.

Edited January 3, 2020 by SamSeed

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

I can't get enough of the bruce lee scenes and he was barely in it lol.  Yue Wu was amazin in this. And Vanda MarGraf is a future star. She's only 16 and can speak english and mandarin fluently.  I need to own this on bluray!!

[DragonClaws]

 

 

With this kind of box-office success, there's got to be anohther fims in the series with or without Donnie Yen?. It clearly hit home with its main target audience, Asia.

 

 

 

 

 

[DiP]

There's already rumors of spin-offs to the official series. A sequel to Master Z, one spin-off that will focus on Yue Wu's character, and most popular one that will turn into a Bruce Lee biopic continuing Bruce Lee's progression in America to his success in Hong Kong. Don't take my words for it, these are just rumors.

Edited January 5, 2020 by DiP

[DiP]

Looks like Well Go USA will be releasing the movie in UHD format! Not sure if WGU has released other titles in UHD. But if not, then this will mark their first UHD release and adapting to the current home video format.

https://www.amazon.com/Ip-Man-4-The-Finale-4K-Blu-ray/dp/B0833XLZD3?tag=bluray-000-20&linkCode=xm2&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[thekfc]

47 minutes ago, DiP said:

Looks like Well Go USA will be releasing the movie in UHD format! Not sure if WGU has released other titles in UHD. But if not, then this will mark their first UHD release and adapting to the current home video format.

https://www.amazon.com/Ip-Man-4-The-Finale-4K-Blu-ray/dp/B0833XLZD3?tag=bluray-000-20&linkCode=xm2&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

They released Zhang Yimou's Shadow in UHD last year.

[Ramji]

Good news regarding the 4k release.

I watched the film with my girlfriend at the cinema on Saturday, was playing at Leicester Sq but on a pretty small screen. I enjoyed it, but probably the weakest of the series for me.

It did have some great moments, the Chinatown section with the karate vs Kung fu masters was amazing, Donnie vs Chris Collins was the best fight in the film for me. Stunning.

I was actually slightly disappointed with the Scott Adkins final duel, it was good but not to the same standard as the fight previously mentioned. I think Scott Adkins struggles with true HK choreography, he’s too big and bulky (don’t hang me for saying that as I’m a fan of his).

If they focused on the Chinatown plot and Ip Man’s relationship with his son it would have been a much stronger film but instead we get comic book evil Gwailo’s. I don’t mind that but they did the drama so well in part 3 I felt it was a step backwards.

Still had some tears in my eyes at certain moments and looking forward to seeing it again!

[DragonClaws]

 

 

[Drunken Monk]

19 minutes ago, DragonClaws said:

 

 

She was assistant action director on Master Z - Ip Man Legacy which is awfully cool.

[DragonClaws]