Iron Triangle vs Venoms

[Iron_Leopard]

Which films do you like better? For me I think the Iron Triangle films are miles better. Although I do think the fight scenes are better in the Venoms films mostly just because those actors were more acrobatic. 

For instance there's a lot of similarities between "Have Sword Will Travel" and "Kid With the Golden Arm" from a story standpoint and even the swordsmen couple who in both films wore the same blue and white outfits. But the first film is better in almost every category except the fight scenes. This is where the later film excels. 

I'm sure I'm in the minority but the Venoms films don't do much for me. Like I said they usually come with great fight scenes but I'd rather just watch a Liu Cha Liang film from this time period instead and get the same quality fights plus a decent story to go with.

[AgriWuxia]

Well, this is an interesting question!

You have identified two distinctly different periods in Chang Cheh's filmography under the Shaw tenure. I personally would favour the Iron Triangle films, simply because in the earlier films the action scenes were more likely to be presented against the backdrop of an introspective story. I attribute this to the inclusion of a significant female lead or supporting actress in these earlier films, something very much absent from the Venoms films I have seen so far. Despite the emphasis on the "brotherhood" of many of the directors films, I believe it is the inclusion of females, whether in a fighting role or as a damsel in distress, that gives the director more scope to develop the emotional impact of the story and hence a more balanced film. Certainly, the role of women in these films was generally presented as destructive to the male bond, but at least their presence gave more depth to the narrative. Further, the Iron Triangle films were able to span several genres giving more variety to the story lines, whereas I believe the Venoms films were pretty much set in early China (Please correct me if I am wrong here- I haven't seen them all yet!).

@Cold Bishop wrote an informative analysis detailing at least four distinct eras during Chang Cheh's career with the Shaw studios. This was in response to a discussion between myself and other members on the Magnificent Ruffians Thread at the time. Sadly, the analysis was lost with the server failure and I regret not saving a copy. If time permits, I would be most grateful if the writer was able to re-post the information.

And I too enjoy the acrobatic fight scenes of the Venoms films! Through this forum, I now have a better understanding of the directors work. So I watch the Venoms films with somewhat different expectations to the Iron Triangle period.

[reason108]

The "Venoms" films were the ones that introduced me to the Shaw world, pretty much, back in the day. They had some decent fight choreography and I actually liked the stories that Chang Cheh and I Kuang were telling. I have never really been a fan of David Chiang so that negates the Iron Triangle for me. Not that I hate him or anything, but, he has never convinced me that he was a real action star. But, I do like him better than Wang Yu.  But, Chang Cheh could never utilize Ti Lung correctly. I think that Ti shined best when he was working with Chor Yuen and Sun Chung. Ti had charisma, and some real martial arts skill! He was a cinematic hero! 

[Chu Liu Hsiang]

Love both teams, prefer the Iron Triangle though. They introduced me to the Shaw world, they have TL/ DC . They also have that "classical" touch, the characters are more memorable (to me, at least). I didn't like the first Venoms movie I saw pretty much but the more I saw, the more I liked them, as I learnt to appreciate the action more and more.

[LuFengLover]

I am a recent discoverer of the Iron Triangle films and very much love the pairing of David Chiang and Ti Lung. These films were much earlier in CC’s career and he was at a different point in his life.  These films were written to be more dramatic and serious tna the Venoms films. He had more to prove when the Iron Triangle movies were made.  These films made him the star director we all know and love. The female leads aid in the progression of  the stories and help flesh out the male leads. The women at the time these films were made were the target audience. The men were busy working and providing.

 

As my name would suggest, I am a Venoms Mob girl through and through. I love the acrobatics of the group and the story lines Chang Cheh presented with this ensemble cast. Their stories are more fun loving and comic book in nature.  As these were made toward the end of his career, Chang Cheh didn’t have to prove anything to the studio or the audience. I do believe the lack of strong female characters in these films hurt the storyline. However if you look at the history of cinema in China at the end of the 70s these films make perfect sense.  More younger men and women were spending time in the theater.  The acrobatics appealed to both.  The women prefered the good looking men and the men loved the brotherhood theme, the style of fighting and the heroism. I lean more toward the Venoms movies.

I love both periods of CC’s filmography almost equally. My mood really dictates what I watch. Lu Feng fits all my moods well but the Iron Triangle works for a change of pace.

[ShawAngela]

Nice to see you back with your good comments, LuFengLover !

I love both teams but with a preference to the pair Ti Lung/David Chiang, exactly as Chu Liu Xiang said...