Japanese movies more intelligent than Chinese ?

[Guest JetsonFu]

I can't help but feel that Japanese movies in average are more intelligent and better made than Chinese ones. Japan has better directors, better actors and better production values. Two words Akira Kurosawa. But so many others. What's your opinion?

[Guest Yakuza954]

Welcome back, we missed you like a bad neck sprain.

[Guest kungfusamurai]

Japan was occupied by the Americans after WW2. Naturally, there would be certain aspects of American culture that would have rubbed off on the Japanese. Film equipment and style was probably a direct result of the occupation. The Hong Kong and Taiwanese film industries did not have as much western influence.

But I doubt you were interested in debating this topic. Just trying to stir up trouble for trouble's sake.

KFS

[Guest Tosh]

Welcome back, we missed you like a bad neck sprain.

Or a Root Canal... I'm surprised your intelligent enough to know the difference between the two, but your always surprising me jetsy, that's why your my boy.

[Guest JetsonFu]

Kung fu Samurai yes I agree, Japan benefited from learning American movie making and that is one of the reasons why their movies have a higher quality than Chinese movies. When you think about it, that just makes it more incredible that when you state the fact that American cinema is superior to others you just get bombarded with angry answers calling you a liar. But in the end we all know the truth about that.

What are your favorite Japanese movies and why do you think they're better than Chinese movies?

[Guest Tosh]

:rolleyes

[Guest iron flag]

Havent you seen Chinese Connection? "We are not Sick men of Asia"!!! :lol

[Guest ShaofuSage]

Jetson, this postboard does not debate whether U.S. films are better then Chinese films are better then Japanese films are better then Hungarian films, etc etc. This is KUNG FU FANDOM!

Stop trying to, in a dirty sideways manner, say that U.S. martial arts films are in any way better then Hong Kong matrial arts films because there is absolutely no comparison. HK has dominated in this department! Also, with all of the utter garbage that comes out of Hollywood nowadays, soon you may be able to stretch that comparison to all movies. At least once I wish you would actually back your points up with some concrete, sophisticated information instead of just simply making bold opinions because in this regard you are simply talking out of your A$$.

[Guest Tosh]

:evil

[KyFi]

Ok, despite the trollish intent of this thread, I think this is a very interesting subject. Japan was definitely more Westernized than China, even before WWII. I believe Kurosawa's first few movies were made during the war--- before the American occupation. So yeah, I think the Japanese were much more familiar and comfortable with the essence and subtleties of western-style filmmaking. And also, I think that when Japanese cultural aesthetic of simplicity and subtlety was married to western-style filmmaking, you got some of the great works of Japanese cinema. But before ranking the Shaw (or Chinese) films as objectively "inferior", I think that there is one huge factor that cannot be overlooked: The Peking Opera. I don't think this could be more clearly evidenced than by watching Chang Cheh's Vengeance, but I also think it's a huge factor in HK filmmaking in general. Lots of the stars, directors, choreographers and many other supporting people had backgrounds in the opera. And the opera, being a live performance medium, relied less on the subtlety of the actors than on their ability to communicate the essence of their characters, stories and action to an audience that might be watching from 20-100 feet away. So, I think that to the casual western viewer, the Shaw films might seem more heavy-handed than their American or Japanese counterparts, but I don't know if that's really a fair assessment---there's some major cultural influences at work here, and it's not simply a case of Chinese stuff always being objectively inferior (although in some instances, it might be). And hey, do you really want to compare A Touch of Zen to Godzilla's Revenge? There's quite a range of quality of filmmaking in both countries.

[Guest Yakuza954]

Good post.

I like to seperate it into different eras. Each country's cinema had their own 'golden age' where they were unmatched in moviemaking. No single country has always been the best or has some sort of cultural superiority like the original poster implies. But of course, it all started with Japan. From the beginning of black and white film to the late 70's, the Japanese film industry clearly dominated and was at the top of its game. Then that fell, and HK Cinema ruled for 2 decades until the 1997 handover. Now South Korea is consistently making the best things in Asia, Japan has a much larger focus on animation, HK is mostly involved in co-productions with the Chinese mainland, and a new-dog in Thailand seems poised to take over as 'action-king' in Asia.

[Guest Johnnie freeze]

I prefer Chinese Kung Fu flicks to Japanese karate, but my reasons are not so deep or intellectual. I simply find the style of Chinese Kung Fu to be more pleasing to the eye, with all the fancy/pretty movements compared to the rather plain [looking] style of Japanese Karate.

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

Japan does tend to bare continuity of fantastical martial abitlities with realism (in appearence) in mind and with more scrutiny. There are some old school kung fu films that measure up to the same standards. However, just because a quality kung fu film has one scene of poor wire work or a 3 sec. scene of fighting sped up in an otherwise flawless flick (these are not the flicks I refered to as measuring up to old school Japanese films), I still appreciate them a great deal.

Ultimately, you really can't compare the two, they're so different in style and structure i'm not really sure why i am doing this? I love them both.

Some old school kung fu that easily measures up to Zatoichi, Swood Of Doom, Sleepy Eyes Of Death, Goyokin, Harakiri, Shinobi No Mono, and many others are;

Have Sword will Travel

King Cat

Avenging Eagle

Shaolin Mantis

Death Valley

Intimate Confessions Of A Chinese Courtesan

Black Butterfly

Crimson Charm

The Duel

Vengeance

Flag Of Iron

New One-Armed Swordsman

The Green Jade Statuette

I'm trying to go by comparative realism e.g. no sped-up scenes, natural looking wire work (which is rare), extremely well choreographed fighting, and well done storyline/dialogue. Acting of course is very important.

The score is important too, or an appropriation of it anyway.

Lastly, I don't appreciate very much Akira Kurosawa (except, Throne of Blood and Yojimbo), and don't feel he is the best representitive of Japanese cinema.

[Guest Liu chung liang]

well Japanese flicks have more sex scenes... that's why. lol

[Guest wellspacedout]

well Japanese flicks have more sex scenes... that's why. lol

lol! c'mon thats not the be all & end all to it, I myself also think its a good subject & unfair to be slated for somebody's opinion saying Japanense films are more intelligent, I v'e lived in Japan & grew up watching both Chinese & American movies and i do think Japanese films such as Ugetsu (pale moon) Kurosawa stuff from drama's to the Ring i can say there is a difference in the approach, like in any other countrys horror films guaranteed most of the time you'll see blood & scence's of anguish but the great thing about many Japanese horror films is that you get the treat in your imagintaion and they have a fantastic natural sixth sense, i met countless Japense peolpe who have a sixth sense and have ghost storys that sound quite original, i think today America is most of the reason for success of Japanese cinema is a sick Joke, if you go to Japan you will find people are generally very honourable & respectful & do have a depth thats isnt full of bulls**t, You can talk to them normal and you dont feel the ego's so much as what you do with Americans, Japanese films can be simple and also very deep and intelligent, I love Chinese & Hong kong cinema but i cant say they are as intelligent as the way of thinking and approach compared to the films iv'e seen in Japan, it was a known fact that Englnad, Germany, Japan were already intelligent and an advanced race atleast as far as working together as one in society which lead to many victory in battles before there even was a world war, so dont anybody make it sound Like Japan was dum struck until the US supersize me came into the scene???

MY Chinese friend told me that in the history sometimes Japanese won battles against chinese even the Chinese had more people but because of the unity of the society in Japan working together and the intelligence that made better & more fierce weapons won them battles, if there wasnt some intelligence involved there then tell me otherwise? History is History and there is more to it than the damn world war ooops yes this is a Kung fu fandom post yea & snake in the eagle shadow kicks ass!!

The Samurai and emporar are smarter than you know

[Guest Yakuza954]

MY Chinese friend told me that in the history sometimes Japanese won battles against chinese even the Chinese had more people but because of the unity of the society in Japan working together and the intelligence that made better & more fierce weapons won them battles, if there wasnt some intelligence involved there then tell me otherwise? History is History and there is more to it than the damn world war ooops yes this is a Kung fu fandom post yea & snake in the eagle shadow kicks ass!!

The Samurai and emporar are smarter than you know

If you want to take this kind of history into account, then China's various empires were the most advanced in the world for hundreds of years while Japan was just a country of a bunch of farmers. Japan was also more isolated and didn't have to deal with the spheres of influence that China had from the 1800's onward.

I do feel that the 50's to 70's when Japan had guys like Kurosawa, Ozu, Moyabashi, Gosha, Nomura, Mizoguchi, Fukasaku, Suzuki, Okamoto and Honda all making films was the strongest filmmaking era of any country, but I owe it to the state of the Japanese MOVIE industry at the time and not to any cultural superiority in the guise of a nation's history.

[Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

Well put Yakuza954

[Guest LoLieh]

by no means am i an expert just more of a casual fan trying to keep the genres alive. i will give my views.

i myself LOVE the chinese filmaking era back from the 60s to the early 90s although my favs came from the 60s to the late 80s. at the same time i love some great samurai/ninja movies IF DONE RIGHT. like any culture of filmmaking every library has those "duds" but i dont chose one over the other.when you do that i think you miss out on alot of things and judge movies in your head before even watching them and giving them a chance.

so to me there is no "better" of the 2 but a nescassary evil in that each lent something to the history of filmaking all together and just think what life would be like without one or the other....would be a boring and sad time.

[Guest whitelotus]

Japanese Movies Suck

Chinese Movies Suck

[Guest GwaiLoMoFo]

I watch a pretty much equal balance of Kung Fu and Samurai flix (late 50's to early 80's). And I would say that the Japanese Samurai films deffinitely feel more polished. They also have a MUCH more consistant balance of story and action. In Samurai films (obviously not all), you can remove the action and still have a great film. There are very few KF films that are watchable without the action scenes. Hard to say that Japanese films are more "intelligent", because I think KF flix are like that by design. The Shaw studios screened Japanese films for their directors regularly. And even hired Japanese directors to work with. One of my all time fav Shaw swordplay flix is Bells Of Death, which has a heavy Samurai film style to it. I think Japanese filmaking was technically more advanced from 50's-80's. But Chinese filmakers made great advances in the action dept in the mid 70's. Japanese MA films deffinitely get more attention and respect than Chinese MA films in the west. Old school KF flix dont get taken seriously in the west, at least not like old school Samurai films. Still very hard to compare the two different genre's to each other. Overall style of filmaking Id say Japanese, Chinese an edge in action style, storytelling Id say Japanese.

i think today America is most of the reason for success of Japanese cinema is a sick Joke, if you go to Japan you will find people are generally very honourable & respectful & do have a depth thats isnt full of bulls**t, You can talk to them normal and you dont feel the ego's so much as what you do with Americans, Japanese films can be simple and also very deep and intelligent, I love Chinese & Hong kong cinema but i cant say they are as intelligent as the way of thinking and approach compared to the films iv'e seen in Japan, it was a known fact that Englnad, Germany, Japan were already intelligent and an advanced race atleast as far as working together as one in society which lead to many victory in battles before there even was a world war, so dont anybody make it sound Like Japan was dum struck until the US supersize me came into the scene???

Maybe a language barrier here, but Im not sure I understand much of that post. And the parts I do understand, Im not sure what they have to do with the topic of Japanese Vs Chinese filmaking.?

[Guest johnnydragon]

chinese first writen book 700 years before anybody else. 1st removable type set for printing, invented gun powder rockets used in warfare, crossbows, automatic crossbow

earthquake detector ect.. ect...

I've been a kung fu movie fan since the 70's! but, im on a

chinese swordplay kick and samurai now. japanese films

are better in story example kung fu movie no fight for 15 min. i fall asleep samurai film ex. zatoichi, im glued to the set

just got tv series eps 13- 72 yesterday 3,4 ,5 wicked

wayward priest and sleepy eyes 1-8. there humor is

more to my taste then chinese imo. chinese kung fu film

and martial arts will always be my first love!

[Guest Squid Lips]

Not sure what everyone's beef with Jet is, but think there is some merit to the topic.

I think the quality and effort that went into Japanese films in general may have been higher. Though there were some great Chinese movies made, say between the 50s and 70s, there may have been many more exploitive films made in China to sort of wash the others away. But most Chinese directors of the "golden era" admit to stealing or learning from the higher quality Japanese productions (just watched a doc on IFC last week where they discussed this very thing). Even Bruce brought himself a Japanese cameraman on Way Of The Dragon.

Today it may be a different story, but I thing in the 60s and 70s, Japan may have been producing a higher quality film overall that was certainly making it's way into the festival scene and the Academy Awards. People like Kurosawa, Ozu and Mizoguchi led the way for many of the great Chinese filmmakers of the 80s like Hou and Wong Kar Wai.

So, everything is to taste and I probably have more Chinese films in my collection at the moment than Japanese but do agree that over all the quality of filmaking (composition, storys, acting, etc.) was better in Japan than China at least in the "early years".

[Guest Tosh]

The thread that wouldn't die... the intentions and opening statement of this thread are as ignorant as they come, but I will say that Japanese movies, directors, and actors from the 50's and 60's influenced all direction of film from all over the world to this day, ironic that a boom in their creativity would happen after losing a war.

[Guest Yakuza954]

Not sure what everyone's beef with Jet is, but think there is some merit to the topic.

This thread was first started a while ago, so long ago in fact that I don't even think Thailand is going to be the 'new action king' anymore. Back then JetsonFu was causing a lot of trouble and just posting about how much martial arts movies sucked, so that explains why we responded to him like that. I think he was eventually banned or something.

[Guest Squid Lips]

Ah... I got it. Thanks for the clarification.