The Treatment of Asian Actors and Asian (style) films created by Hollywood

[Hei Meigui]

The Man With The Iron Fists (2012) I have not seen this movie and I know that there is a sequel out there. What do you think of this movie? I have seen that it has a Rotten Tomatoes score of 49%. Is it or the sequel worth seeing? The only other American films/shows that come to mind are the Kill Bill movies, and the Kung Fu TV series with David Carradine.

I am not a fan or really graphically bloody films so I don't really see many Tarantino films. I did see Kill Bill 1 & 2 and felt that they were alright. I know he likes to bring back the "exploitation" style films. I remember watching the Kung Fu series religiously as a child but I was kind sad to find out that David Carradine wasn't really Asian.

Are there any other movies I have missed and how do you feel about this issue of American interpretations/adaptations of Asian films?(I know the Weinstien influence may come up as we have slammed them in CTHD-TGD!!)

I personally am not a fan of having actors who are not of that race or ethnicity playing characters who are supposed to be.

Not sure of any Asian directors either in Hollywood. Fight Choreographers doesn't count.

 

What do you think?

[kokuryuha]

Regarding Man with the iron fists,It's The Wu-Tang Clan's RZA's directorial debut and it's a movie not really worth bothering with due to the fact that it's copies from past movies like 18 Bronzemen,Crippled Avengers,and Five Element Ninja.RZA as a composer/MC is brilliant but as a director he is lacking.Of course Gordon Liu helped him out by making an apperance as a shaolin monk and two other Shaw bros.stars can be seen briefly within the movie but outside of that...Unless your curiosity gets the better of you,I suggest you skip it and the sequel. 

 

In the matter of roles meant entirely for asians but given to caucasians for Hollywood's delusional visions of grandeur,all one needs to do is look at the desecration that is Dragonball evolution and be repulsed.And shame on Chow Yun Fat being involved in such a production.

[Tosh]

I prefer my Asian movies from Asia, I wouldn't expect the Chinese to make a great movie about the Napoleonic wars.

 

I was bummed to to learn David Carradine wasn't half Asian too.

[kokuryuha]

I prefer my Asian movies from Asia,I didn't expect the Chinese to make a great movie about the Napoleonic wars.

 

I was bummed to to learn David Carradine wasn't half Asian too.

I'd be more bummed at the fact that Bruce Lee never got to portray that coveted role that made Carradine famous in the first place.He didn't do a bad job but even as a kid I couldn't understand why he trained in shaolin but couldn't display Gordon Liu type skills?

As far as asians doing movies that involved other cultures or americans doing asian movies are acceptable if they do it with the proper respect and the right approach as well as doing thorough research and casting the right race according to the subject matter.

In other words don't cast David Carradine as Kwai Chang Caine and don't cast Jean Cluade Van Dam as Guile.?

[Hei Meigui]

I prefer my Asian movies from Asia, I wouldn't expect the Chinese to make a great movie about the Napoleonic wars.

This made me think.. Hollywood can make any kind of film and it doesn't matter who they use they can make them look like any other group (Thank god black face isn't prevalent like it was!) Most movies are filled with whites who can look like many other groups - Irish, Italian, Jewish, Latino, etc so we in the US have the luxury of being able to make movies about anything. Most people can not look at a Polish Actor playing the part of a British character and tell the difference in ethnicity if the accent is accurate.

This lets the US make movies about anything. How do people in other countries do that or would all of the other movies about non Asian cultures and events have to be imported or have mainly non Asian actors? I guess even with the modern Asian films they are either modern day or historical but about Asian related material.

This is interesting though because Ang Lee made films like Brokeback Mountain which had nothing to do with anything Asian!

 

When i tried to picture who I know as Asian American actors not many came to mind but reading this it was interesting so see who I didn't know and who I had forgotten!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Americans_in_arts_and_entertainment

 

I hope that actors like Donnie Yen could be bigger here but I know the parts he has been offered weren't big. I barely remembered him in Blade II and I know he turned down the Expendables offer. It would have been funny to have him in there because he can really fight unlike the other actors in that franchise!

 

Regarding Man with the iron fists,It's The Wu-Tang Clan's RZA's directorial debut and it's a movie not really worth bothering with due to the fact that it's copies from past movies like 18 Bronzemen,Crippled Avengers,and Five Element Ninja.RZA as a composer/MC is brilliant but as a director he is lacking.Of course Gordon Liu helped him out by making an apperance as a shaolin monk and two other Shaw bros.stars can be seen briefly within the movie but outside of that...Unless your curiosity gets the better of you,I suggest you skip it and the sequel. 

This is good to know!! I will give it a pass!I would rather save the money for something better!!

[AlbertV]

I remember listening to the DVD commentary of Invisible Target and it was mentioned that Nicholas Tse was originally offered to make his Hollywood debut as Goku in Dragonball: Evolution but had to withdraw because of scheduling conflicts, a decision he said he somewhat regretted because he had wanted to work with Chow Yun-Fat. At least that wish finally came true when they did From Vegas to Macau. 

 

Of course, seeing the film, I don't think even Tse could have saved that atrocity. But on the flipside, the film's screenwriter Ben Ramsay really redeemed himself when he directed Michael Jai White's Blood and Bone that same year. 

 

To answer Hei Meigui's first question, I didn't care much for the original Man with Iron Fists because it was a little too much of a good thing. There are some pros with the film (I liked Dave Bautista's Bronze Arm, but did they really have to make him like X-Men's Colossus?) and the Gemini fight I personally thought was the best fight of the film. The ending was a bit too farfetched for me.

 

However, the sequel was a much better improvement. I think RZA realized it was better to have the character in a more straightforward kung-fu style film and with the additions of Dustin Nguyen, Eugenia Yuan, and some others, along with Roel Reine directing, I felt this was one of those rarities where the sequel is better than the original. That's my opinion anyway.

[thekfc]

I gave the Man With The Iron Fist a 2nd viewing and thought that it wasn't that bad, it had it moments. And yes, the sequel is an improvement from the first. I even went out and bought both on Blu-ray.....yes I did. 

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I prefer my Asian movies from Asia, I wouldn't expect the Chinese to make a great movie about the Napoleonic wars. ...

One of the best films on the end of the Qing dynasty and up through early Mao is Bernardo Bertolucci's The Last Emperor which Johnnie To wrote as one of his top 10 Criterions.

[Hei Meigui]

One of the best films on the end of the Qing dynasty and up through early Mao is Bernardo Bertolucci's The Last Emperor which Johnnie To wrote as one of his top 10 Criterions.

So if he thought that that film was great and It was a Chinese historical film filmed in English, does that mean that there is hope for CTHD-TGD?

 

I gave the Man With The Iron Fist a 2nd viewing and thought that it wasn't that bad, it had it moments. And yes, the sequel is an improvement from the first. I even went out and bought both on Blu-ray.....yes I did. 

I may check it out. It's really cheap at the Walmart so it's not like I would be putting out a lot for the films.

[Hei Meigui]

Here is an interesting article about Eddie Huang who wrote the book Fresh off The Boat - that the sitcom was based on. It is interesting to hear his feelings about the process of making that sitcom in a Hollywood run mindset.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/eddie-huang-fresh-off-the-boat-abc.html

[masterofoneinchpunch]

So if he thought that that film was great and It was a Chinese historical film filmed in English, does that mean that there is hope for CTHD-TGD?

...

There is always hope, however small :). I believe John Woo was a fan of that film (he is of the director), but I cannot find the quote I was thinking of.  My small point was that there is nothing inherit by where you are born in determining what kind of director you will be and what nationalities you will be good at directing (with the exception that it does help if you know the subject at hand -- usually.)  Look at some of the Italian westerns :D.

 

One of the greatest cinematographers in Hollywood's history was born in Guangzhou in 1899.  James Wong Howe would go on to work  on The Thin Man, Yankee Doodle Dandy, Sweet Smell of Success (his work in here is brilliant), Hud, Hombre and countless others.  He started off in silent film (surprisingly or maybe not there were more opportunities for minorities and women in silent cinema then there would be later on when the oligopoly of the major studios take over -- not this is not saying there wasn't horrendous racism with the easiest and most well know example Birth of a Nation) and Howe kept working and working.  Unfortunately he only got to direct a few films (none that I have seen.)  But if you see his name on the film, the camera work is going to look good (same with Karl Freund). Howe's style was most influenced by German Expressionism.  

 

Seriously though The Last Emperor is a brilliant film with sagacious direction, cinematography, acting, etc...  A lot of the director's other works are worth watching as well (The Conformist, Last Tango in Paris -- I still need to see 1900.)

[Hei Meigui]

Here is an old article I found talking bout the effect Bruce Lee had on how Asian male actors are seen and have been portrayed in movies

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=771790

 

[DragonClaws]

 

There is always hope, however small :). I believe John Woo was a fan of that film (he is of the director), but I cannot find the quote I was thinking of.  My small point was that there is nothing inherit by where you are born in determining what kind of director you will be and what nationalities you will be good at directing (with the exception that it does help if you know the subject at hand -- usually.)  Look at some of the Italian westerns :D.

 

One of the greatest cinematographers in Hollywood's history was born in Guangzhou in 1899.  James Wong Howe would go on to work  on The Thin Man, Yankee Doodle Dandy, Sweet Smell of Success (his work in here is brilliant), Hud, Hombre and countless others.  He started off in silent film (surprisingly or maybe not there were more opportunities for minorities and women in silent cinema then there would be later on when the oligopoly of the major studios take over -- not this is not saying there wasn't horrendous racism with the easiest and most well know example Birth of a Nation) and Howe kept working and working.  Unfortunately he only got to direct a few films (none that I have seen.)  But if you see his name on the film, the camera work is going to look good (same with Karl Freund). Howe's style was most influenced by German Expressionism.  

 

Seriously though The Last Emperor is a brilliant film with sagacious direction, cinematography, acting, etc...  A lot of the director's other works are worth watching as well (The Conformist, Last Tango in Paris -- I still need to see 1900.)

Hi Master, I'm sure James Wong Howe won an award for his cinematography work on Hud?. Seem to recall reading something like that on the back of my old VHS copy of the film when I first bought it. The guy certainly had a way of capturing images on film.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

 

Hi Master, I'm sure James Wong Howe won an award for his cinematography work on Hud?. Seem to recall reading something like that on the back of my old VHS copy of the film when I first bought it. The guy certainly had a way of capturing images on film.

Yes he won "Best Cinematography, Black-and-White" for that year. He also won for The Rose Tattoo (1955) which I have not seen. He was also nominated seven other times.  Here is the list.  You saw Hud first awhile back.  I saw it for the first time a few years ago on DVD.

[DragonClaws]

 

Yes he won "Best Cinematography, Black-and-White" for that year. He also won for The Rose Tattoo (1955) which I have not seen. He was also nominated seven other times.  Here is the list.  You saw Hud first awhile back.  I saw it for the first time a few years ago on DVD.

Thanks for confirming that MOTOIP, interesting to see his list of other award winning films.