Did you know? Far out stories from Martial Arts Cinema

[kokuryuha]

 

I have tried to find a secondary source confirming this about The Victim being filmed first.  Has anyone been able to find it?

For those bored I took notes of that commentary a few years back:

The Victim (1980) commentary by Ric Meyers and Bobby Samuels (2001)

BS: worked with Sammo in 2 features; lived with Sammo 3 years; Sammo helped him in Cantonese and helped with action with camera.
BS: Sammo written with 2 n’s [title has one]
Curious statement from both that this was Sammo’s first directed film [his first credited film is The Iron Fisted Monk (1977)]
BS: had to tone down acting when he got back to States.
BS: states how Sammo got facial scar because of broken bottle in face technique.
RM: compares camera style to Chang Cheh [I don’t see it]
RM/BS: reiterates Sammo/Bruce Lee confrontation story [I wonder who won that one?]
BS: Sammo lived next to Leung Kar-yan for years; helped him get into acting; states story that Leung did not know martial arts at all [would repeat this throughout commentary]
States The Postman Strikes Back was Chow Yun-fat’s only MA role until Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
BS: says you need to have 3 prolific stunt directors sign for you for stuntmen card.
BS: Sammo idolized Bruce Lee.
RM: notes Sammo’s obsession for nudity as well as Jackie Chan. BS says this is because they grew up together nude so it was more normal; RM points out scenes where it goes beyond normal.
BS: was directed by Yuen Wo-ping in Red Wolf. Has great things to say about him. Says he is cigarette guy and that many smoked too much. Says only individual choreographer that has complete control of his vision.
Many actresses from pageants.
Chan Lung’s nickname ma goo; won’t state what it means [no idea; if anyone has the characters for his nickname please PM me]. He had problems, was institutionalized.
[Dark Was mentioned as this year; puts the commentary around 2001]
RM: states that Sammo’s career started with 1971 Angry River [not even close; actually his math gets a little weird when he states that sammo had worked for 32 years and Beardy at 26 years]
BS: was not happy about Lee Hoi-sang being in blackface in Enter The Fat Dragon; Sammo could have hired a black actor. Says he could write a book about racism in the industry. He talks about difficult sequence in Don’t Give A Damn until RM breaks him off [on purpose] [this was getting interesting; I have not seen that film, but reviews do not paint it kindly; he later seems to still be upset with Sammo about particular issues dealing with race]
RM: Sammo likes to fill his films with interesting looking characters; hypothesizes because Sammo is scarred and overweight.
BS: Says Chang Yi is one of his favorite villains; from Indonesia [according to HKMDB he is from Huizhou, Guangdong Province], real martial artist.
RM: white is not color of wedding it is color of death; red is color of wedding; BS agrees
RM: Sammo knows how to move camera, says Sammo has hand on camera.
BS: Sammo told him camera was third arm.
BS says he has seen this about 50 times; RM says about six.
Both talk about possible doubling including use of Chung Faat, Sammo possibly being doubled and later use of Yuen Biao [which is very obvious doubling for Wilson Tong Wai-shing].
BS: favorite scene is Sammo versus Leung.
RM: filmed completely on location; “worst things happen to chickens”
BS: Sammo well over 200 pounds; Yuen Wo-ping is godfather of two of Sammo’s sons, Jackie Chan is godfather to younger son.
RM: says fans started to turn on Sammo after Lucky Stars Go Places (1986) [I don’t quite agree with this because Eastern Condors and that film both made over 20m HK; now he didn’t direct for a few years as EC and Millionaire’s Express was a real hit unlike what he states]
RM: started to have sexist, racist mysogonist streak [umm; has RM not seen his first directed film The Iron Fisted Monk (1977) which is very mysognositic]
BS: Sammo well known for his gambling [Bobby definitely is still a little angry with Sammo]
RM: pole stands up to sword, not possible [actually this is funny if you think about it]
BS: not happy with sister (Yuet Yee) not showing emotion after her brother’s death; RM tries to explain why then gives up.
BS: got to work with Lam Ching-ying before he died [not sure when]
RM/BS: could not find other roles for girlfriend played by Fanny Wang [reason why she’s in four films: Fame of Chess (1977), The Victim (1980), All’s Well, End’s Well ’97 (1997) and A Decade of Love (2008) and I’m not even sure about Fame of Chess or A Decade of Love]
BS: Sammo love American films.
Both: terrible scene ghost/Dracula sequence; RM: where did he get the tux? “Sammo Size” “Enter the Fat Vampire”
RM: What year is this supposed to be? [?]
RM: plot issue; get Mom out of room [actually this is funny] “pillage then burn, not burn than pillage”
BS: Sammo wanted Martial Law to go on longer.
RM: says took out Sammo from fighting in second season; took out humor, was top 20 show, TV Guide award; almost as if they wanted it to fail. [Interesting article here: http://kungfuqigong....hp?article=216]
BS: most difficult when you fight multiple people [unless you are Fezzik]
[RM confuses MA audience with mainstream audience]
BS: Sammo spoke English at end of film [can’t tell with this dub]     

It's funny how you took the time to post all this but if you'd have taken just a portion of that time to realise that out of all those things mentioned in that commentary,the one info  mentioned about the actual release date of the Victim movie along with the possibility of Bobby Samuels living with Sammo were the only ones I entertained in this thread.I even went so far to mention in another post on here in response to another person like yourself who wanted to debunk what I said,I clarified that Ric Meyer's viewpoints hold no meaning for me and have no place on this thread.I was only going by what Bobby had said in regards to Sammo regarding certain things.And why not since he was the only black man that Sammo was affiliated with closely like that during that time! Meyer was only mentioned in the same sentence due to the fact that he was on the same commentary involving that particular Victim DVD release.

 

If you erroneously thought that I'm a supporter of Ric Meyer then let me rectify your mistake.If I believed all that was mentioned on that commentary or any other commentary within that genre or outside of it,Then I would've just did you like did and excessively post everything that was said instead of selectively choosing what I thought was credible or at least close enough to the truth.For the record who believes everything single thing on any commentary anyway? Or every interview or article? 

FOR THAT I CALL B.S.✋

[masterofoneinchpunch]

It's funny how you took the time to post all this but if you'd have taken just a portion of that time to realise that out of all those things mentioned in that commentary,the one info  mentioned about the actual release date of the Victim movie along with the possibility of Bobby Samuels living with Sammo were the only ones I entertained in this thread.I even went so far to mention in another post on here in response to another person like yourself who wanted to debunk what I said,I clarified that Ric Meyer's viewpoints hold no meaning for me and have no place on this thread.I was only going by what Bobby had said in regards to Sammo regarding certain things.And why not since he was the only black man that Sammo was affiliated with closely like that during that time! Meyer was only mentioned in the same sentence due to the fact that he was on the same commentary involving that particular Victim DVD release.

 

If you erroneously thought that I'm a supporter of Ric Meyer then let me rectify your mistake.If I believed all that was mentioned on that commentary or any other commentary within that genre or outside of it,Then I would've just did you like did and excessively post everything that was said instead of selectively choosing what I thought was credible or at least close enough to the truth.For the record who believes everything single thing on any commentary anyway? Or every interview or article? 

FOR THAT I CALL B.S.✋

 

Huh?  Where did this come from?  You completely misread my intention for posting that.  I wrote "For those bored I took notes of that commentary a few years back"  My post was strictly a FYI for those interested in the commentary (I keep notes on commentaries when I can so I can refer to them; I posted so anyone interested in it would not have to actually sit through the whole thing; anyone who has known me from the years here knows that I am a cinema wonk; if I am guilt of anything it is long-windedness).  I have never been a fan of Ric Meyers, I even wrote several posts in the past detailing many mistakes he has written in his books and commentaries (EDIT: including here).  I did not surmise you were a fan of Meyer nor did I surmise one single statement you have made.  Your response was rude, wrong and states intentions I did not make like trying to debunk you (which is funny because I agree with you.)  Plus who in the world would believe "everything single thing on any commentary anyway"?  That makes no sense in you deducing my terse statement to that comment.  Most of my writing tends to the incredulous nature of a skeptic rather than a credulous fan-boy tendency -- at least I hope.

And as I am rereading the offending post, I find that there are several "Far out stories from Martial Arts Cinema" in that post which fits the theme of this thread.

Anyone else: I am actually curious if there is any other sources as to The Victim is Sammo's first film.  I'm actually in the camp where I think there is a good chance it is.

Edited November 3, 2015 by masterofoneinchpunch

[kokuryuha]

 

Huh?  Where did this come from?  You completely misread my intention for posting that.  I wrote "For those bored I took notes of that commentary a few years back"  My post was strictly a FYI for those interested in the commentary (I keep notes on commentaries when I can so I can refer to them; I posted so anyone interested in it would not have to actually sit through the whole thing; anyone who has known me from the years here knows that I am a cinema wonk; if I am guilt of anything it is long-windedness).  I have never been a fan of Ric Meyers, I even wrote several posts in the past detailing many mistakes he has written in his books and commentaries (EDIT: including here).  I did not surmise you were a fan of Meyer nor did I surmise one single statement you have made.  Your response was rude, wrong and states intentions I did not make like trying to debunk you (which is funny because I agree with you.)  I have no idea why you are so surly with your response for I believe I have been a decent member of KFC/KFF for many years and I had no animosity toward you.  Plus who in the world would believe "everything single thing on any commentary anyway"?  That makes no sense in you deducing my terse statement to that comment.  Most of my writing tends to the incredulous nature of a skeptic rather than a credulous fan-boy tendency -- at least I hope.

And as I am rereading the offending post, I find that there are several "Far out stories from Martial Arts Cinema" in that post which fits the theme of this thread.

Anyone else: I am actually curious if there is any other sources as to The Victim is Sammo's first film.  I'm actually in the camp where I think there is a good chance it is.

I dont mind apologizing if I misunderstood what you intended but dont patronize me with your social standing or the length of time you've been a member of this network.It's like you're giving the impression that you want special treatment from me.I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone in the chamber,much less on a thread that I created but instead of barking back and beating your chest about your place in the hierarchy of the chamber,PM me and I would've recanted my statement.Either that or just report me to a moderator instead of making this a tit for tat issue if you feel that I'm "picking on you" as you so passionately put it before you went back and edited that comment out.Am I an internet  bully now? No.I'm a person who is civil enough to come to terms with something or can be reasoned with.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I dont mind apologizing if I misunderstood what you intended but dont patronize me with your social standing or the length of time you've been a member of this network.It's like you're giving the impression that you want special treatment from me.I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone in the chamber,much less on a thread that I created but instead of barking back and beating your chest about your place in the hierarchy of the chamber,PM me and I would've recanted my statement.Either that or just report me to a moderator instead of making this a tit for tat issue if you feel that I'm "picking on you" as you so passionately put it before you went back and edited that comment out.Am I an internet  bully now? No.I'm a person who is civil enough to come to terms with something or can be reasoned with.

 

Took out the offending statement.  I was not trying to patronize anyone and I was just trying to convey the point that I normally do not get into a row and the reason I edit things out is simply because I thought what I wrote was a bit petty and while I pontificate my position I do like to edify with my edits.  My apologies for any misunderstanding, though I stand by the majority of what I wrote and posted (and gave my feelings above.)  Why the heck would I report you to a moderator (this confuses me I have not written one threatening statement)?  I was just trying to get my point across which I hope I have done, but methinks I do not always eschew obfuscation.  If you had PM'd me first about my post I would have not replied either in this thread. 

But back to the point on hand. I wonder if anyone has the book Enter the Fat Dragon: The Life and Films of Sammo Hung and if it has any mention of this factoid.  I have wanted this book for ages, but have found no copies.  I would love to see a nice monograph on that director.  You know there are so many questions I would love to ask directors/actors past/present. Of course it would be nice to call Bobby Samuels on this.

Edited November 3, 2015 by masterofoneinchpunch

[kokuryuha]

 

Took out the offending statement.  I was not trying to patronize anyone and I was just trying to convey the point that I normally do not get into a row and the reason I edit things out is simply because I thought what I wrote was a bit petty and while I pontificate my position I do like to edify with my edits.  My apologies for any misunderstanding, though I stand by the majority of what I wrote and posted (and gave my feelings above.)  Why the heck would I report you to a moderator (this confuses me I have not written one threatening statement)?  I was just trying to get my point across which I hope I have done, but methinks I do not always eschew obfuscation.  If you had PM'd me first about my post I would have not replied either in this thread. 

But back to the point on hand. I wonder if anyone has the book Enter the Fat Dragon: The Life and Films of Sammo Hung and if it has any mention of this factoid.  I have wanted this book for ages, but have found no copies.  I would love to see a nice monograph on that director.  You know there are so many questions I would love to ask directors/actors past/present. Of course it would be nice to call Bobby Samuels on this.

On behalf of myself...I should've taken my own advice and PM you if I thought otherwise on what you posted or gave closer scrutiny to what was written before jumping the gun and responding as hastily in the manner I did.My apologies in return for any offense I have caused to you and any discomfort to those who read it or will read those posts of conflicting views.My primary intent is to share knowledge and receive it in return as well as be among those with the same intentions.No grudges held and none taken from here on out.

[One Armed Boxer]

Great thread @kokuryuha, just read through the whole thing for the first time, and it makes for a very entertaining and informative read.  Shall be checking in on this thread more often.

 

Good to see everything is all good with @masterofoneinchpunch, both of you guys seems to have an almost encyclopedic like knowledge base on the genre, so it's relief to see a misunderstanding treated like exactly what it is - just a misunderstanding.  Look forward to reading more of both your posts in the future!

[Jadedragon61]

 

No problem.

 

I seem to recall reading that Urquidez had some padding under shirt and Chan didn't for their Wheels On Meal fight?. Could be a story Ive mixed up from another film so don't quote me on that one. It would be interesting to know if Benny stiffed Chan for real or hit him too hard by accident. Despite his film work he was a real fighter and must have been more used to following through. Whilst Chan had spent years perfecting his on screen fighting and the ability to throw a good punch without harming anyone. They clearly got on well enough for Chan and Co to re-hire him for Dragon Forever. Both equally talented men for different reasons. 

Benny talks a  bit about Chan and filming with him in this interview:

[DragonClaws]

Benny talks a  bit about Chan and filming with him in this interview:

Thanks for posting this interview Jadedragon61. I'm interested to hear what he will have say to about working with Jackie Chan.

[Jadedragon61]

Just remembered this: In her biography, Seka, the '70s porn star, remarks that she had a one-night stand with Dolph Lungren. A year or so later, he was in town again, LA I think, and asked her out again. Seka turned him down - said Dolphy was a bore in the sack

[Tosh]

Thanks for reposting that, Master... Meyers was off in his own little universe wasn't he?

 

And that's all I'll say about Ric Meyers. 

There was an epic thread on Meyers' misinformation that turned into a brutal bashing way back in the Kung Fu Fandom, I think Mark Pollard deleted the thread when the crossover went to KFC.

 

I have nothing against the guy, I think he was at the right place at the right time, but he also deserves some of the ridicule for the pure laziness of his journalism.

 

I also take some of these stories with a grain of salt 

[AlbertV]

Similar to the Romeo Must Die script story, in an interview I had conducted with Jason Yee for the old KFC site a few years back, when he saw the script for The Girl from the Naked Eye, the main character was originally Italian-American as was the character that would eventually be Simon, Ron Yuan's character. However, he was so into the script that he had it re-written to make the main characters of Jake and Simon Asian. 

 

He also told me that he and the filmmakers loved Oldboy and paid homage with the fight scene against the security guards in which there is one quick cut in the middle showing the lead villain packing heat but goes back into the second half of the fight scene. 

 

The indie action film Brawler, it was loosely based on true stories of early 20th century bare knuckle brawls on riverboats in New Orleans. Lead actor Nathan Grubbs had heard these stories and came up with a concept that modernized these old stories into more MMA-style brawling on riverboats and added the twist of the two brothers duking it out in the end. Remembered this from an interview I did with that film's director Chris Sivertson. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by AlbertV

[DragonClaws]

Bumping this older thread, to see if we can get it active again?.

Has anyone here heard from or been in contact with @kokuryuha recently?.

[Cognoscente]

Alice Cooper mentioned in his book "Alice Cooper, Golf Monster" that he is a big fan of Kung Fu movies. He made it a ritual to watch a movie before going on stage.