Member paimeifist Posted March 20, 2015 Member Share Posted March 20, 2015 A favorite, one you don't like, whatever, lets just talk about fights! Revisiting the end fight of Tiger Over Wall gave me the idea for this post. Man this fight has quickly become one of my favorites ever. For starters, obviously it is just extremely well choreographed, but there are some other elements that add to it.. I love the contrast of styles, Hwang is ultra-aggressive with his vicious kicks, and Ko Fei is trying to counter him with what looks like Mantis style while avoiding Hwangs constant barrage. I like the feel of desperation that this fight has, like how when the guan dao gets stuck in the ground they fight trying to get it, and it seems like Phillip Ko is just desperately trying to get some separation from Hwang's constant assault more than he is fighting back. A great example is when Phillip Ko actually knocks HJL inside, and lands a couple good shots before Hwang gains his balance.. Once he finds his footing and continues unleashing his kicks, Ko Fei abandons any offense, and even makes some desperate faces as he tries to escape and take the fight back outside. While the weapon work wasn't quite on the level of the hand to hand afterward, it was still very good, and the transition was another plus. One great bit of choreography here is Hwang swings his Guan Dao, misses, as Ko Fei lunges with his staf, Hwang throws a high kick, Ko Fei squats under it as he lunges, quickly turns around, and Hwang spins back around with his kick.... Text doesn't do it justice, and its a very short bit...but a great example of class choreo, and I am sure you will know what part i'm talking about if you watch the fight.. Very intricate and perfectly timed. Also interesting (and fitting, since this isn't a training movie) is that Phillip Ko doesn't win with some crazy style or weakness he sees in HJL.. Instead, HJLs reckless abandon is his own undoing, and it still seems like he is really the better fighter even though he loses in the end.. Which is something you don't see in a lot of 1 v 1 finales, it often feels like the hero is just a little better than the villain by the end. Anyway, maybe I am over-analyzing this, but its fun regardless, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 20, 2015 Member Share Posted March 20, 2015 ... Also interesting (and fitting, since this isn't a training movie) is that Phillip Ko doesn't win with some crazy style or weakness he sees in HJL.. Instead, HJLs reckless abandon is his own undoing, and it still seems like he is really the better fighter even though he loses in the end.. Which is something you don't see in a lot of 1 v 1 finales, it often feels like the hero is just a little better than the villain by the end... When I think of a villain that is better than the hero, but the hero still wins it reminds me of Jackie Chan and Whang In-Shik in The Young Master. However, here Jackie uses his reckless abandon to win (of course we see the result of it at the very end of the film) in that 18m + showdown. That is one of my favorites of all-time. It is mostly shot with wide-angle lenses (or at least further away shots, I have to revisit the camera style.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted March 20, 2015 Author Member Share Posted March 20, 2015 When I think of a villain that is better than the hero, but the hero still wins it reminds me of Jackie Chan and Whang In-Shik in The Young Master. However, here Jackie uses his reckless abandon to win (of course we see the result of it at the very end of the film) in that 18m + showdown. That is one of my favorites of all-time. It is mostly shot with wide-angle lenses (or at least further away shots, I have to revisit the camera style.) Yeah I love that fight, and that is my favorite classic Jackie kung fu flick. I really want to see more of Whang In-Shik, but I feel this has to be his best fight! I suppose reckless is much more fitting to describe what Jackie does in the finale of The Young Master, haha. I remember reading somewhere that this is also one of his fights that Jackie is most proud of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 20, 2015 Member Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yeah I love that fight, and that is my favorite classic Jackie kung fu flick. I really want to see more of Whang In-Shik, but I feel this has to be his best fight! I suppose reckless is much more fitting to describe what Jackie does in the finale of The Young Master, haha. I remember reading somewhere that this is also one of his fights that Jackie is most proud of himself. In his book (if you trust it) he considers it his ninth best fight scene . Jackie going basher mode versus Whang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 21, 2015 Member Share Posted March 21, 2015 It's pretty rare for Hwang to be beaten by an actor of equal skill. Jackie Chan I can accept, but Dragon Lee should never win against Hwang. I've seen the Tiger Over Wall final fight around 100 times. It is incredible. I used to love the weapons part but now I usually fast forward past some of it. One fight I want to talk about, I'm sure it's on everyone's minds, is Swordsman with an Umbrella. Chiang Ming aka Mr. Gao fights the main villain in the final fight, and the director must not have had enough money for the right camera because instead of shooting in slow mo, he has the actors move really slow to try and fool the audience. It's so incredibly laughable you have to see it to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted March 21, 2015 Author Member Share Posted March 21, 2015 Good point about Hwang Morgoth, he is often getting best by some scrubs. Id like to see some flicks that he has some more screen time in. I think out of all the Hwang movies I've seen, he probably gets the most time in Dance of the Drunk Mantis (a favorite) and Duel of Ultimate Weapons (good fights, but Dragon beats up Hwang lol) Edit: I guess he gets a decent amount of time in Invincible Armour. I can't remember much about the secret rivals flicks, I remember the locations of those flicks more than any fight or other detail. The scene you described from Swordsman with an Umbrella sounds hilarious, I need to see this movie. Hell, I've watched enough good kung fu movies lately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted March 21, 2015 Member Share Posted March 21, 2015 It's pretty rare for Hwang to be beaten by an actor of equal skill. Jackie Chan I can accept, but Dragon Lee should never win against Hwang. I've seen the Tiger Over Wall final fight around 100 times. It is incredible. I used to love the weapons part but now I usually fast forward past some of it. The worst example of Legendary Superkicker Hwang Jang Lee being beaten by someone who has no business doing so is Benny Tsui in Masters of the Tiger Crane. The finale actually resembles that of The Young Master, with Tsui getting whooped non-stop for the duration of the fight, only to go ape-shtuffs on Hwang in the last minute. I was considered John Liu an appropriate person to beat Hwang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 The final showdown in Hitman In The Hand Of Buddha is one of my favorite Kung Fu fight scenes. Hwang Jang Lee plays the hero for a change and gets to show us he's not just a skilled leg fighter. His use of staff in the finale is very impressive indeed. The whole film is highly recommended to fans of HJL's work and skills. He not only stars in this Korean production but also directed it. Eddy Ko is also on top form as the films villain Uncle 33. Tino Wong is also another welcome addition to the cast. Paimefist, what are your thoughts on the Whang In Sik/Jackie Chan re-match in Dragon Lord?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted March 22, 2015 Author Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 I haven't seen Hitman in the Hand of Buddha or Dragon Lord. I've been seeing a lot of Hwang lately, and I've wanted to see Hitman for a long time. I'd like to get this one soon. What's the best available release? No one really responded to my comment on what films Hwang has the most screen time in.. I'm sure this is one of them!? I also haven't seen Dragon Lord, it's on netflix but I've been holding out on it. Now that I know that Whang In Sik is in it, I'll watch it very soon for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 He's the hero in Hitman In The Hand Of Buddha so get gets plenty of screen time. I cant comment on which release is the best to get?. I have the old Eastern Heroes DVD which features the Korean Cut of the film and the International print. The PQ on the Korean print isn't great but its nice to have an alternative version of the film. The final fight in Dragon Lord is pretty good not quite as epic as The Young Master finale. Chan's was also starting to change his approach to fight choreography at that time. I was really impressed when I first watched the movie in my teens. Chan's sidekick played by Mars also gets in on the action. Id like to re-watch the film to see if Id enjoy the final fight as much now. Don't recall being that impressed with the rest of the film though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 The discussion focuses on Hwang Jang Lee's great fights and NOBODY brings up the finale from Ninja Terminator where he fights Jack Lam ?! THAT is one epic HJL fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 Good point GHW, I wonder what HJL thought of Jack Lam's skills?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 You have to be a powerful person to take a double bicycle kick AND a jumping temple kick from Hwang in rapid succession and still live. I do have to question Jack's decision to take the fight back to the staircase if the whole throwing sand bit was giving him the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 Love that fight in Ninja Terminator. Jaguar kicks a lot of ass in this movie, and just when it starts to get repetitive, he has to fight HJL. Great fight, and a great idea to give Hwang those heavy shoes. I didn't think Jaguar was going to survive that kicking explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member killabeez Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 The final showdown in Hitman In The Hand Of Buddha is one of my favorite Kung Fu fight scenes. Hwang Jang Lee plays the hero for a change and gets to show us he's not just a skilled leg fighter. His use of staff in the finale is very impressive indeed. The whole film is highly recommended to fans of HJL's work and skills. He not only stars in this Korean production but also directed it. Eddy Ko is also on top form as the films villain Uncle 33. Tino Wong is also another welcome addition to the cast. Paimefist, what are your thoughts on the Whang In Sik/Jackie Chan re-match in Dragon Lord?. You know the funny thing is I was watching an interview with Phillip ko and he was talking about when ultimate badness dick wei fought yuen biao and lost. Wei was like what the $@#= was I doing losing to yuen. Mind you they were drinking and gambling, ko reminded him that yuen was the STAR! Ko said dick could never understand that and was a fool for not understanding that. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 You have to be a powerful person to take a double bicycle kick AND a jumping temple kick from Hwang in rapid succession and still live. I do have to question Jack's decision to take the fight back to the staircase if the whole throwing sand bit was giving him the advantage. Pay closer attention and you may notice it's actually a part of a good strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToryK Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 He's the hero in Hitman In The Hand Of Buddha so get gets plenty of screen time. I cant comment on which release is the best to get?. I have the old Eastern Heroes DVD which features the Korean Cut of the film and the International print. The PQ on the Korean print isn't great but its nice to have an alternative version of the film. The final fight in Dragon Lord is pretty good not quite as epic as The Young Master finale. Chan's was also starting to change his approach to fight choreography at that time. I was really impressed when I first watched the movie in my teens. Chan's sidekick played by Mars also gets in on the action. Id like to re-watch the film to see if Id enjoy the final fight as much now. Don't recall being that impressed with the rest of the film though. I'm fonder of the Dragon Lord fight, actually. Dragon Lord, for me, anyway, is the bridge between Jackie's old-school stuff and his modern choreography. I love the desperation and it's always nice to see Mars get his share of the spotlight. The Young Master's up there, but I'd rank DL's finale above YM's any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted March 23, 2015 Author Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 Pay closer attention and you may notice it's actually a part of a good strategy. It was all clearly an elaborate plan. Jaguar wanted to lure him to his quick sand trap that he had set up in preparation. He knew exactly where Hwang would land. Jaguar Wong basically resembles Batman in his skills of preparation. Cool story Killabeez, although you would think these guys would expect this, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm fonder of the Dragon Lord fight, actually. Dragon Lord, for me, anyway, is the bridge between Jackie's old-school stuff and his modern choreography. I love the desperation and it's always nice to see Mars get his share of the spotlight. The Young Master's up there, but I'd rank DL's finale above YM's any day of the week. They make very good use of the location in Dragon Lord too. The fight scene in the police station from The Killer In White with Stephen Tung Wai is one of my all time favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToryK Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 They make very good use of the location in Dragon Lord too. The fight scene in the police station from The Killer In White with Stephen Tung Wai is one of my all time favorites. Absolutely! That's where some of the modern choreography comes into play. It kinda foreshadows his stuff in Miracles and Project A II. Love it! He's clearly in over his head, and he throws anything and everything at Whang to put him down. It's an exhausting fight, and I find that the variety is what overshadows the fight in Young Master. I have nothing to add as far as the Tiger Over Wall fight goes, so I'll just say I agree wholeheartedly! Another fight I don't think gets enough recognition is the 2-on-2 in Magnificent Butcher. I'm sure some of you guys know what I'm talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 Another fight I don't think gets enough recognition is the 2-on-2 in Magnificent Butcher. I'm sure some of you guys know what I'm talking about... "Knives in the Cuffs?" The Yuen Biao/Lam Ching-Ying segment is great. I like how Biao's confidence increases as he figures out the shortcomings of Lam's secret weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm fonder of the Dragon Lord fight, actually. Dragon Lord, for me, anyway, is the bridge between Jackie's old-school stuff and his modern choreography. I love the desperation and it's always nice to see Mars get his share of the spotlight. The Young Master's up there, but I'd rank DL's finale above YM's any day of the week. He was moving away from the shapes style choreography when he made The Young Master. By the time he made Dragon Lord he had changed his style even more as you mentioned. The Magnificent Butcher features some great fight scenes. The scene where Sammo takes on the cat style fighter always crack me up. I cant recall the name of the actor who plays crazy cat?, that's how the character is referred to in the English dub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 The scene where Sammo takes on the cat style fighter always crack me up. I cant recall the name of the actor who plays crazy cat?, that's how the character is referred to in the English dub. I think it's Chung Faat (the crazy eyebrow dude from TWINKLE, TWINKLE LUCKY STARS and YES MADAM!). In the Tai Seng subtitled version, he was called Scratchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 23, 2015 Member Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think it's Chung Faat (the crazy eyebrow dude from TWINKLE, TWINKLE LUCKY STARS and YES MADAM!). In the Tai Seng subtitled version, he was called Scratchy. Thanks for that, I have the HKL DVD but couldn't recall his name in the subtitled version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 25, 2015 Member Share Posted March 25, 2015 He was moving away from the shapes style choreography when he made The Young Master. By the time he made Dragon Lord he had changed his style even more as you mentioned. The Magnificent Butcher features some great fight scenes. The scene where Sammo takes on the cat style fighter always crack me up. I cant recall the name of the actor who plays crazy cat?, that's how the character is referred to in the English dub. Relooking at this: it sure is done well. As you mentioned the use of location is superb: the combination of wide and close quarter fights (especially on the second level), ladders, height, beams and use of props (sandbags, rock like shuttlecock referencing earlier scenes, trap door, baskets, basket-tops). The height gives it a multi-dimension feel and a more dangerous feel. I might speculate and think that since the film is not as widely respected as Young Master (including by Jackie himself; the film itself was not a flop as many people have wrote, it made a decent amount at the HK BO) that fight scene is underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.