Crowdfunding out-of-print, old-school martial arts fims?

[Asmo]

I'll second things like Pedicab Driver, Enter the Fat Dragon and The Victim. I don't know if Golden Harvest has the rights to them (I think they did for the first two, but they were in that massive list of titles sold/licensed to Warner).

However, if prints of the latter two are still attainable they might be easy to locate but I'm not sure who would have the rights if you just wanted to telecine and remaster the prints for example.

[One Armed Boxer]

I agree with the principal of this idea, but as ChanBiaoHungLungFuSheng (wow that took a long time to type) mentioned, you really need to look at the business process of this to even have the smallest glimmer of hope of making it work. A bunch of fan-boys (which to some degree we are) with no knowledge of distribution and how many units are required to break even isn't going to go anywhere. I don't mean to sound harsh, but with all the suggestions in this thread it appears the impression may be that this is quite a simple idea to pull off, which I can guarantee it isn't.

Perhaps equally as important is actually defining what you mean by 'Out of print old martial arts films'? There are movies being mentioned on here which are far from out of print and available in high quality remastered editions, some even filled with special features!

I just randomly picked 3 to demonstrate the point....someone mentioned 'Iceman Cometh', the HKL special edition DVD is available new from amazon.co.uk, it's not even a private seller, amazon themselves have it in stock -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Iceman-Cometh-DVD-Yuen-Biao/dp/B0009M9FL4/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1413278631&sr=1-1&keywords=iceman+cometh

'Tiger on the Beat' was also mentioned, again amazon.co.uk have the HKL special edition in stock -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Beat-DVD-Yun-Fat-Chow/dp/B00015N5F6/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1413278676&sr=1-1&keywords=tiger+on+the+beat

They even have another version of it in stock and ready to go -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Beat-DVD-US-NTSC/dp/630526144X/ref=sr_1_4?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1413278729&sr=1-4&keywords=tiger+on+the+beat

'Swordsman 2', another movie someone suggested, in stock from amazon.co.uk -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Swordsman-2-DVD-Jet-Li/dp/B000B8TJAI/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1413279180&sr=1-1&keywords=swordsman+2

My point is nobody is going to crowdfund movies which are so easily available, so I think you should take some time to define exactly what you mean by out of print.

[blue_skies]

I wonder if it might work better doing a crowd funding project title by title? I don't know anything about the business side but just an idea.

I also had another thought just now that perhaps these movies should be dual titled. Having the old renamed titles of movies on the cases might very well help sales. Lots of old movies are now being given their proper names which unless you're on the Internet researching, you might not be aware of those name changes. There could be a sizeable audience that wouldn't know Master Killer is the same movie as The 36 chamber...For example.

[KenHashibe]

My point is nobody is going to crowdfund movies which are so easily available, so I think you should take some time to define exactly what you mean by out of print.

They may be easily available in the UK, but not really in the US. By out-of-print, I think it means either movies that haven't been released here or movies that have been released here but are extremely hard to find (at least for a good price). Iceman Cometh and Tiger on Beat have both had all-region DVD's released, but they are very hard to find. Unless you were to buy an all-region DVD player (which not a whole lot of people have), you could buy the HKL DVD's.

I haven't been able to get myself a copy of Back Alley Princess or The Champions. Supercop probably hasn't had a uncut DVD release outside of Asia. I don't know, it seems like Chenzen is completely confident about what he's doing. I've decided to have a bit of faith in him and I wish him luck.

[inframan]

I don't want to derail this thread but "I don't have a region free player" is not an excuse, esp if you're a kung fu fan.

Two points that are relevant, I think the Victim rights might still be with Dragon Dynasty, its on wikipedia anyway.

I just found out recently that Supercop has an alternate english dub that was done by golden harvest and is uncut. See my thread in the modern MA movies section. I think this would be hard to get released domestically in the US with Mirimax having their version.

[Drunken Monk]

They may be easily available in the UK, but not really in the US. By out-of-print, I think it means either movies that haven't been released here or movies that have been released here but are extremely hard to find (at least for a good price). Iceman Cometh and Tiger on Beat have both had all-region DVD's released, but they are very hard to find. Unless you were to buy an all-region DVD player (which not a whole lot of people have), you could buy the HKL DVD's.

As a collector, sometimes this hobby becomes a waiting game. I'd been looking for "Iceman Cometh" for ages and, just recently, managed to buy it for as little as $8. It pays to be patient sometimes.

As for "Tiger on the Beat," there's a Blu-Ray release readily available for as little as $10. Sometimes, when DVD's are out of print, you have to go for the next available option.

[KenHashibe]

I don't want to derail this thread but "I don't have a region free player" is not an excuse, esp if you're a kung fu fan.

I just found out recently that Supercop has an alternate english dub that was done by golden harvest and is uncut. See my thread in the modern MA movies section. I think this would be hard to get released domestically in the US with Mirimax having their version.

I totally wish I had an all region DVD player, but I'm cheap. I've actually seen the uncut English version of Supercop on YouTube and it's a shame that it wasn't included on the Dragon Dynasty DVD instead of the Miramax dub. I think the only way to watch the uncut English version in on VHS unfortunately.

As a collector, sometimes this hobby becomes a waiting game. I'd been looking for "Iceman Cometh" for ages and, just recently, managed to buy it for as little as $8. It pays to be patient sometimes.

As for "Tiger on the Beat," there's a Blu-Ray release readily available for as little as $10. Sometimes, when DVD's are out of print, you have to go for the next available option.

Thanks for the link! I've always been told good things come to those who wait. I know how it feels to wait for so long to find a movie. I spent 3 years looking for an uncut DVD of Project A and happened to stumble across the Mega Star DVD on eBay. I'm thinking the purpose of this project is to make these movies more readily available and also to give movies that need it a really good DVD release (i.e. Enter the Fat Dragon, Mystery of Chessboxing, Thundering Mantis, etc.).

[teako170]

I totally wish I had an all region DVD player, but I'm cheap.

While an all-reg player was costly years back, such is not the case these days. You can get a nice Sony for under $50. Considering many films of this genre are Region 3, it is certainly a wise investment. There are 100s of Celestial discs alone that you're missing out on.

[One Armed Boxer]

They may be easily available in the UK, but not really in the US.

I take the point, but again if you're now going to focus on what's considered to be out of print only in the US, you've just limited your crowd funding options from having the scope of people contributing globally, to people contributing from just a single country. Again, this wouldn't be good business sense.

I don't want to derail this thread but "I don't have a region free player" is not an excuse, esp if you're a kung fu fan.

While an all-reg player was costly years back, such is not the case these days. You can get a nice Sony for under $50. Considering many films of this genre are Region 3, it is certainly a wise investment. There are 100s of Celestial discs alone that you're missing out on.

Exactly, if you're a kung-fu fan, region free is pretty much a prerequisite.

I'm thinking the purpose of this project is to make these movies more readily available and also to give movies that need it a really good DVD release (i.e. Enter the Fat Dragon, Mystery of Chessboxing, Thundering Mantis, etc.).

I definitely think exactly what's trying to be achieved by this project needs to be definted a little more clearly. Are we trying to release better versions of movies which are still easily available in existing DVD formats, are we trying to release out of print titles based purely on the availability of the Region 1 versions of them, are we trying to release out of print titles based on every version of the movie now being very difficult to get hold of, or are we trying to release movies which have never had a release on DVD? They're basically 4 completely different scenarios.

[David Rees]

While i love the idea, i think One Armed Boxer has some valid points.

Arrow video in the UK did a similar thing with some titles never before released on DVD / Blu ray. I think you should pick say 3 titles and concentrate on them, but i think it will be an expensive thing to try.

Forget Enter The Fat Dragon or Pedicab Driver as there both Warner titles and i doubt they would sub licence but might be worth asking.

Remember also that this sadly is a very small niche and downloading and piracy have made official releases not practical in many instances, look at Media Blasters , there excellent range stopped for this very reason. Good luck with your venture.

[blue_skies]

I take the point, but again if you're now going to focus on what's considered to be out of print only in the US, you've just limited your crowd funding options from having the scope of people contributing globally, to people contributing from just a single country. Again, this wouldn't be good business sense.

Exactly, if you're a kung-fu fan, region free is pretty much a prerequisite.

I definitely think exactly what's trying to be achieved by this project needs to be definted a little more clearly. Are we trying to release better versions of movies which are still easily available in existing DVD formats, are we trying to release out of print titles based purely on the availability of the Region 1 versions of them, are we trying to release out of print titles based on every version of the movie now being very difficult to get hold of, or are we trying to release movies which have never had a release on DVD? They're basically 4 completely different scenarios.

I have to agree that if you're a kung fu fan you absolutely need a region free player. It always amazes me that a handful of our American brothers in here never got one, missing out on some fantastic releases. Anyway I don't think the original poster is going to have an easy time making this happen and would do better to invest in a multi-region player, picking up the many quality releases available from Europe and Asia. Rather than trying to get them released when a segment of your potential market has already done the same.

I have to say I'm only guessing here but I would think that in the cases of movies that have been already remastered and released in quality abroad (outside of the US). Those releases are going to be more costly to buy the rights.

[HyperDrive]

TBH, I don't think any large company would just hand over most of the before mentioned titles to a fanboy crowdfunding effort. We gotta start small and grow from there. Maybe it would be easier getting ones only released in other countries. You could also just find ones that never made it past VHS. A poster here claimed that the masters used for Tai Seng VHS releases are not available anymore though.

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showpost.php?p=189256&postcount=17

If you do start an effort, you better go all the way through with it and update the status every day. In the past, fan projects even successful ones have caused this site to almost self destruct.

Nice idea and good luck though. I have some vhs only unsubtitled stuff including mainland modern day flicks but I don't have the time or the resources for a proper fan project.

[chenzen]

Interesting turn of events guys according to the guy at Golden Harvest I've been talking to All of the films I asked for a price quota he told me they do not own the rights too. I was very baffled to his response so I just replied to him and asked him if they own any of their old films at all. I am wondering if he lied and wouldn't tell me because I'm not Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez lol. But if they don"t own any rights to their old films where should I go from here?I am still waiting for Celestial to respond also.

[KenHashibe]

Interesting turn of events guys according to the guy at Golden Harvest I've been talking to All of the films I asked for a price quota he told me they do not own the rights too. I was very baffled to his response so I just replied to him and asked him if they own any of their old films at all. I am wondering if he lied and wouldn't tell me because I'm not Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez lol. But if they don"t own any rights to their old films where should I go from here?I am still waiting for Celestial to respond also.

I think all of them went to Fortune Star for distribution. They also own many Cinema City movies and a few Seasonal. You can find them here:

http://www.fortunestarentertainment.com/contact_us.htm

For business purposes, I've been listening to everyone else's comments and it makes sense to only crowd fund movies that are hardly accessible anywhere. For example, Tiger on Beat has a widely distributed DVD in Hong Kong and the UK so they would have no obligation to donate because they already have it. On the other hand, The Champions hasn't had a very wide-spread release that's still in print, so more people would want to help fund for it. I think it'd be best to stick to the movies like Back Alley Princess and The Champions which are very hard to find. I guess you could also include some of those more mainstream movies, as long as you have other movies to give to a global audience. That would of course mean that the DVD's would have to be all-region which I'm assuming costs more, but with enough people donating, it should work out.

As far as non-Golden Harvest kung fu movies go, there are MANY that could get a re-release. I recently thought about how highly sought after Two Toothless Tigers. I'd love to see it have a good remaster.

Sorry for the long post, wish you luck!

[chenzen]

Alright guys before I message Fortune star give me each a list of movies you want me to ask about. I just got back into Hong Kong/Chinese martial arts films in June after not watching any since i was a kid so I don't know what the most fan requested movies are or none of that. So ya let me know!

[Neil Koch]

Fortune Star are not very reputable, like how they gave Shout Factory upscales rather than true HD masters for their Bruce Lee boxset. They also charge a lot of money for just screening movies. The guys at Subway Cinema had an Angela Mao retrospective and could not afford to show some of her movies. I doubt they would be willing to part with the US rights for a small fee. If you are serious abut this, I would highly suggest contacting a lawyer who knows copyright law and intellectual property rights. It's not just a matter of emailing these companies.

[One Armed Boxer]

Interesting turn of events guys according to the guy at Golden Harvest I've been talking to All of the films I asked for a price quota he told me they do not own the rights too. I was very baffled to his response so I just replied to him and asked him if they own any of their old films at all. I am wondering if he lied and wouldn't tell me because I'm not Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez lol. But if they don"t own any rights to their old films where should I go from here?I am still waiting for Celestial to respond also.

I would look at this from the perspective of it being the first of many hurdles you'll have thrown in your direction, like I said before I think you've hit on a potentially excellent concept in terms of distributing the movies we'd love to see on DVD, but as Neil Koch mentioned I just hope you realize that this was never going to be a case of simply sending an e-mail to the company and asking how much they want for the rights.

The next logical step to the process would be to ask which companies do currently hold the rights to the movies you're interested in crowdfunding, then to approach them and see if they will be willing to release (or give the rights to you?) if a certain figure is reached.

[blue_skies]

I would actually say if you are a fan of movies in anyway you need a region free player. Forgetting kung fu movies for the moment the fact is that even your standard mainstream movies sometimes get a better release in a different region.

You're right good point!

[Drunken Arts]

Can i quickly add regarding the multi-region DVD, that i have changed a Region 2 Samsung Blu-Ray 3D player, Another older Samsung Blu-Ray player and a Toshiba DVD/Divx player all to region free. [Although the blu-ray players were region free in DVD playback only]

I simply googled the make and model number with the word region free code.

I had to do something like... turn on the said player with button on the player, not the remote, open disc tray, punch in a code on remote, it was something like 654789 then a option opened up on screen asking what region i wanted and i pushed "0" then "Enter".

Obv they were all slightly different from one another but i remember that one as it was so simple but i got all working region free.

Of course, i felt it was a risk to take someones word online but i got all 3 region-0. So do at own risk. Im affraid i cant remember the site i used.

As i typed this i was wondering if this was classed as illegal, but came to the conclusion that i have not opened the players or used modifications and it is clearly a software setting, so im sure its fine to explain this. If not the mods can delete this post.

[blue_skies]

Can i quickly add regarding the multi-region DVD, that i have changed a Region 2 Samsung Blu-Ray 3D player, Another older Samsung Blu-Ray player and a Toshiba DVD/Divx player all to region free. [Although the blu-ray players were region free in DVD playback only]

I simply googled the make and model number with the word region free code.

I had to do something like... turn on the said player with button on the player, not the remote, open disc tray, punch in a code on remote, it was something like 654789 then a option opened up on screen asking what region i wanted and i pushed "0" then "Enter".

Obv they were all slightly different from one another but i remember that one as it was so simple but i got all working region free.

Of course, i felt it was a risk to take someones word online but i got all 3 region-0. So do at own risk. Im affraid i cant remember the site i used.

As i typed this i was wondering if this was classed as illegal, but came to the conclusion that i have not opened the players or used modifications and it is clearly a software setting, so im sure its fine to explain this. If not the mods can delete this post.

I did that I couple of players, paid for a special remote on another but mostly bought them region free specifically