Member paimeifist Posted August 21, 2014 Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 Just a trend I've noticed of myself. When I first began watching these movies, I loved all Venoms films, and would consider many some of my very favorite MA films. As I have broadened my range and seen more films, I find myself enjoying venoms less than I used to. I feel their movies rarely have a decent story, and none of them can really act. The fighting while entertaining at times, also seems to include too much acrobatics at times. Due to the lack of "power" in most of their movements, I generally prefer Venoms with weapons. I may watch Invincible Shaolin again soon to see if this observation holds any weight, as I remember that movie very fondly as well. What caused me to think this was recently reqatching Crippled Avengers, a movie I'd have considered one of my favorite films before, but upon watching it now, I was very underwhelmed. I still love the original Venoms movie, and Kid with the Golden Arms, and many scenes from other movies. I am not saying they're bad movies at all, just that they're not as good to me as they once were. Anyone else had similar feelings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 21, 2014 Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 It seems like I'm agreeing with you a hell of a lot, and then what shows up on my KFC doorstep? This thread. Crippled Avengers was one of my first favorite movies when I started collecting VHS. I was excited when Dragon Dynasty released it, and while I still love it, it wasn't the "all time classic" that I always thought it was. Same thing with Shaolin Rescuers, my former favorite Venoms movie. But I do find that Kid with the Golden Arm holds up. I think all of the Venoms are good actors, and I'd say Kwok, Chiang Sheng and Lo Meng are the best. Although Sun Chien surprised me in Angry Ranger where he plays a damn scary villain. The stories aren't very good. But I do really like the story in Crippled Avengers. And yeah a bit too much on the acrobatics in that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted August 21, 2014 Author Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 I haven't seen Shaolin Rescuers, I agree they aren't all bad actors, but they don't particularly stand out either. Philip Kwok is probably the most well rounded of all of them, and I consider him my favorite venom, followed by Chiang Sheng. I guess being that they generally played similar roles, they didn't get the chance to show much range. Ironically, my opinion of Chiang Sheng has changed as well, I couldn't stand him before! Yeah Kid with the Golden Arm has always been my favorite of theirs and one of my favorite Shaws. Always seemed a little lighter in tone than most Venoms fare, and I enjoyed the distinct comic book like characters.. I don't think Crippled Avengers is bad, just not great like I had remembered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted August 21, 2014 Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have to agree with the original post. I've said this before, but the Venoms really killed my interest in Shaw Brothers movies years ago. I walked out of one of their flicks and said, "enough". So much so that I have not watched a bunch of the DVDs of their later work, or Shaws work. Just too swishy and precious, and with the exception of Lo Meng ( who looks incredibly tense) that don't look like fighters, more of a burlesque of fighting. I would not doubt that maybe some of them had some fighting skill, but there is no power behind their movements for the most part, though I did like Invincible Shaolin a lot. I know that is sacraliege, but that's just the way I feel, no offense to the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 I love venom movies than LKL flicks but criticism towards "crippled avengers" is justified. Acrobatics when properly choreographed adds excitement to fights but in CA lu feng vs chiang sheng&kuo chui looked like circus act, not fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Having seen only Invincible Shaolin (does that even count as a Venoms film ?) I can't really discuss this in details, but I really enjoyed the movie (which I'd rank in my Top 5 SB) for the action and some of the characters. I liked Chiang Sheng the most as the character is pleasant and he's fun to watch in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Definitely Invincible Shaolin is a Venoms movie. It has all six of the main actors from the movie Five Venoms. It's generally considered that if there are at least 3 Venoms and it's directed by Chang Cheh, then it's a Venoms movie. Invincible Shaolin is a bit different from most Venoms movies because I don't think there are any weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Definitely Invincible Shaolin is a Venoms movie. It has all six of the main actors from the movie Five Venoms. It's generally considered that if there are at least 3 Venoms and it's directed by Chang Cheh, then it's a Venoms movie. Invincible Shaolin is a bit different from most Venoms movies because I don't think there are any weapons. There's one character who uses the stick. I guess the main difference would be that this one puts the "Venoms" in a more "Shaolin Cycle" context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't remember the stick. This is another one that I'm looking forward to watching again. It's been too long. I think Chang Cheh was definitely trying to recapture some of that Shaolin magic, but even more than that it felt like he was trying to compete with Lau Kar Leung who was becoming very successful as a director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 There's one character who uses the stick. Kuo chui has regular pole and chiang sheng "two sectional staff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Kuo chui has regular pole and chiang sheng "two sectional staff". I wasn't sure if it was Chang Shieng who had the pole as I recalled another guy practicing it. Still some cool stuff there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted August 22, 2014 Author Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't remember the stick. This is another one that I'm looking forward to watching again. It's been too long. I think Chang Cheh was definitely trying to recapture some of that Shaolin magic, but even more than that it felt like he was trying to compete with Lau Kar Leung who was becoming very successful as a director. Yeah im going to revisit this one sometime this weekend myself. It seems my opinion isn't as unpopular as I'd imagined. Crippled Avengers may be one of the most over rated Shaw Bros movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think Chang Cheh was definitely trying to recapture some of that Shaolin magic, but even more than that it felt like he was trying to compete with Lau Kar Leung who was becoming very successful as a director. I have a feeling you're referring to some lighter moments and to the training scenes that make up a big chunk of the film. I have to agree as these scenes were more LKL thing, though I think one of the Shaolin Cycle films is heavy on these - which leads some to believe (unless it's factual) that the film in question (not sure which one it is) was a LKL/CC collaboration. Yeah im going to revisit this one sometime this weekend myself. It seems my opinion isn't as unpopular as I'd imagined. Crippled Avengers may be one of the most over rated Shaw Bros movies. Apparently, IS isn't considered one of Chang Cheh's finest - gotta say that movies like Marco Polo or Disciples Of Shaolin are largely better. It seems to suffer especially when compared to other Venom movies apparently. Never seen Crippled Avengers. On a sidenote, I find the amount of movies with "Crippled" in the title crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted August 22, 2014 Author Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ive been meaning to tell you GHW, your name is hilarious, rofl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ive been meaning to tell you GHW, your name is hilarious, rofl. Glad you like it - is it the typo (should be worshiper) or the idea ? I actually picked that name because I was initially mainly into Godfrey Ho movies and I didn't think much over my username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted August 22, 2014 Author Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Just the idea. It is great, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 Speaking of CC and LKL, you notice that they are all using the so called best shaolin style in invincible, and there is no Hung Gar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted August 22, 2014 Member Share Posted August 22, 2014 As someone who only discovered The Venoms only a couple of years ago I found their movies immensely entertaining. I guess the stories weren't so great but not the tremendous agility and acrobatic skill, performed without tons of cuts was hugely entertaining. Not to mention the skilled performances using various weapons was a real treat to watch especially after becoming so jaded with modern Hong Kong martial arts cinema. In a time where we are seeing more and more unskilled actors/actresses relying on wire work, to do what these days did so much better with seemingly effortless precision. I don't know how these movies will stand up on repeat viewings but they definitely have been among the most entertaining kung fu/martial arts movies, delivering feelings that few movies delivered since my early days of watching kung fu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member loempiavreter Posted September 4, 2014 Member Share Posted September 4, 2014 I had the opposite, used to hate Crippled Avengers. But when I recently saw it, I was blown away. I didn't remember it had so many badass baddies in there like that uncle. I only remembered the random acrobat workout from when I was a kid. Story is an overated aspect to judge in the end it's all a campbell-esque formula that they use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted September 28, 2014 Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Bumping this Venoms thread for a technical question: does Two Champions Of Shaolin count as a Venoms movie ? Like Invincible Shaolin, it has the cast of the Venoms movies (which made me pick up the DVD without thinking it any further), yet is set in a more Shaolin-oriented environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted September 28, 2014 Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Just a trend I've noticed of myself. When I first began watching these movies, I loved all Venoms films, and would consider many some of my very favorite MA films. As I have broadened my range and seen more films, I find myself enjoying venoms less than I used to. I feel their movies rarely have a decent story, and none of them can really act. The fighting while entertaining at times, also seems to include too much acrobatics at times. Due to the lack of "power" in most of their movements, I generally prefer Venoms with weapons. I may watch Invincible Shaolin again soon to see if this observation holds any weight, as I remember that movie very fondly as well. What caused me to think this was recently reqatching Crippled Avengers, a movie I'd have considered one of my favorite films before, but upon watching it now, I was very underwhelmed. I still love the original Venoms movie, and Kid with the Golden Arms, and many scenes from other movies. I am not saying they're bad movies at all, just that they're not as good to me as they once were. Anyone else had similar feelings? No, are you kidding me? The venom films are why I still enjoy Martial arts movies till this day. They make up some of the best made martial arts movies ever made. I will challenge anyone verbally or physically if think differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted September 28, 2014 Author Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yeah I think anything that stars the venoms constitutes a "venoms movie". Although a film like Shaolin Temple where they are present but generally in minor roles would not be considered a venoms movie. No OKFC, I am not kidding, that's why I made the thread. Although after revisiting more of their films, I still dig a good amount of their shit. Just not Crippled Avengers, that movie is a dud to me these days. Venoms movies that are some of my favorite kung films: Magnificent Ruffians, Kid with the Golden Arm, Masked Avengers, Flag of Iron. I like the original movie a lot still due to the eery setting and mood of the movie. With that said, if I were to make a top 10 list, not many of these would make the cut. I still really enjoy the majority of the venoms movies. I was just depressed at the time of this post, after having my fond memories of Crippled Avengers get destroyed. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted September 28, 2014 Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Crippled Avengers till this day, still gives me a boner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted September 28, 2014 Author Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Crippled Avengers till this day, still gives me a boner. Rofl, to each their own my friend. Like I said, it was a sad moment when I watched it after not having seen it in a few years, and genuinely felt let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted September 28, 2014 Member Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yeah I think anything that stars the venoms constitutes a "venoms movie". Although a film like Shaolin Temple where they are present but generally in minor roles would not be considered a venoms movie. Not sure if others will have something to say about this, but thanks for the answer - and it's obvious movies where they play minor roles or make mere cameos won't be Venoms films, I was asking as they seem to be main/central characters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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