What movie draws the line between old school and new?

[paimeifist]

Just curious what peoples opinions on this would be. I am not really well versed enough in this era of movies(mid to late 80s?) to be able to say, although I can say this thought popped up in my head while watched Martial Arts of Shaolin.

What movie(s) would you consider? Why would you consider these particular movies?

[Cold Bishop]

I don't think you can narrow it down to one particular film or year. I think it was a gradual change-over among different filmmakers… and a gradual obsolescence for those filmmakers who didn't change-over.

It's the difference between Dragon Lord and Project A, between The Prodigal Son and Winners and Sinners, between the Taiwanese-Korean Ninja films of the 1980s and the emergence of Mainland productions. It is also the line between Disciples of the 36 Chamber and Martial-Arts of Shaolin.

Certainly the rise of Cantonese cinema, the innovations and new subjects of the New Wave, and the opening of the PRC as a market for the genre are the three major catalysts for the death of the Old-School era.

[sdog2006]

The first thing that came to mind when I read the question was Project A.

It's the first film I can think of where an advanced kickboxing style replaced traditional techniques. That approach, mixed with acrobatics, created some of the best films of the genre: Millionaire's Express, Eastern Condors, Police Story, Wheels On Meals, Dragons Forever etc.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I would agree with both. Project A and the return of Cantonese language movies. Read a scholarly article on it tgat says the same thing. Audiences tired of pessimistic, fatalism of Shaw brothers as well as the basher and shapes got repetitive. Even Shaws was trying to catch up with Mercenaries from HK and HK Playboys. Add to that the skill of mainland wu shu performers, the slow hung gar mimics got lost in the shuffle.

[Secret Executioner]

Somehow, I too would have said the Jackie/Sammo movies from the 1980s - mainly because they are often mentionned as influential and (from what I gather) they seem to have been hits when the "old school" MA movies from the time tended to be flops.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I believe also the hong Kong audiences wanted to see movies thatvwere really about hk life, not just "Chninese" movies. Michael Hui and his brothers were killing it back then.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I would that say Iron Dragon Strikes back is the answer to your question, but that movie was just too far ahead of its time.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I've been burned many times by Bruce Li (when I was a young teenager, and could ill afford the price of admission) but I will give this one a shot! I think he was a gymnast who mimicked the martial arts, but I would imagine he go better and better, so, I will order it.

[Cold Bishop]

The Gold Connection is great: it gives Li a chance to be himself, it's the rare Kuei Chih-Hung martial arts film, and it's a good fusion of shapes and moderns.

But is it particularly groundbreaking? By this point we'd already seen Jumping Ash, arguably the film that launched the New Wave, not to mention Kuei's own The Delinquent.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Yeah everyone needs to see it. It's a near masterpiece. Very, very close. Li is amazing. Best role of his I can think of.

I have to see Jumping Ash. I remember TigerStyles making fun of me for not seeing it but he must not have been harsh enough. I need to get on this.

[blue_skies]

For me personally I generally consider classic to be anything before 1980 and modern to be anything post-1980. Only because when I first started reading and posting on this forum that was the line between classic and modern.

Sometimes though I think maybe that line should be drawn back to about 77/78 given some of the dynamic kung fu from that era, that feels (to me) more modern.

[paimeifist]

Is there a good release of Iron Dragon Strikes Back? May order that next week on my next pick up..along with Heroes of the East which I feel terrible for not having seen yet, lol. But that's another topic.

Thanks for the input guys, the Sammo/Jackie stuff was also something that I was considering.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I have the EVG DVD where Bruce Li is on the cover with a nunchuck. Good sound and picture quality and slightly wide. English dubbed and it's a really good dub. Bonus features include a description of the movie on the back of the DVD. At least I think they are trying to describe this movie. "Four adventurers in the China sea mistakenly discover the buried treasure of some ruthless sea pirates. Determined to retrieve the gold, the pirates go all out to get it back. Their only hope is to use the ancient art of the monks. In a dazzling display of martial arts supremacy they defeat the enemy."

[paimeifist]

Aight Morgoth I just ordered it, but it was a cheap double feature DVD, as it was the easiest way to get it... Don't let me down now! Lul

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Good luck. If it's from Eastwest DVD those are a real crapshoot. I think the EVG version was the cheapest DVD i've ever bought at Suncoast.

[paimeifist]

Honestly I have low standards for this stuff. I can watch anything from a Mill Creek set or a Xenon release, so it can't be worse than those fight?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

It's probably a decent version, but man I've seen so many unwatchable versions of movies over the years. You never know. And I have very, very low standards myself.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Alright I'll give you one chance to redeem yourself. What's the other movie on the double feature?

[paimeifist]

Revenge of Fury? Lol

[Morgoth Bauglir]

A fury that is revenged. Sounds interesting, but it's not. It's a pretty bad movie. So hopefully they put their efforts into Iron Dragon Strikes Back. Let me know how it turns out. I have my fingers crossed.

As a bonus for you since you cooperated with my request, here is some additional information on Iron Dragon Strikes Back from the cover of the EVG DVD- "The knowledge of the ancient art will help discover the secret." Some deep stuff there. I have to admit it goes right over my head.

[paimeifist]

I'm expecting it to be terrible, I bought this solely for Iron Dragon, so hopefully it is a watchable print.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

What you are thinking is actually what I was hoping, that you get a bad movie so that maybe it will give you good luck with Iron Dragon. So watch Revenge of Fury first and it will make Iron Dragon seem even better. I'm putting too much thought into this now aren't I

[The Dragon]

Iron Dragon Strikes Back; how many times have you all rewound the end of the fight between Ko Fei and Ho Chung Tao??

[inframan]

Young Master, Jackie was pointing out, I think in My Story, how the beginning is very traditional, but each fight scene is more and more what we'd call modern. Like when the bad guy escapes, that scene is very different than the old school kung fu, and I'm sure everyone is familiar with how crazy the last fight gets.

[One Armed Boxer]

I always thought the Donnie Yen movie 'Drunken Tai Chi' was a hybrid of old school and new. I mean what other movie can you find a BMX bike in the middle of a traditional kung-fu movie setting?