Name that Hong Kong or Mainland Movie that let you know it was going downhill

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

What was the flick that made you realize that we would be watching more stuff like Badges of Fury and less like Ip Man? For me it was the White Dragon-http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?id=10769&display_set=eng

Here's hoping they find that energy that propelled them from the 60's to the 90's! Right now, Korea seems to be producing all the good stuff.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Flying Swords of Dragon Gate is when I realized that HK action cinema is not worth watching anymore. I never thought I'd see CGI stunt doubles in a HK movie. That horrible piece of shit was just another in a long line of terrible new wuxias I had recently seen, and I've lost all hope since then.

I'll still pick up a Donnie Yen movie if I pass by it a Wal Mart. But outside of Donnie, Tai Chi Zero and Warlords are the only decent ones I can think of in recent years. I only give them a rating of about a 6/10 but that's all I can think of:crossedlips:

[DiP]

I would say Flying Swords of Dragon Gate too. 3D in HK/Chinese action films seemed to have sky-rocketed after that one.

But as long as people like Donnie Yen, Johnnie To, Soi Cheang, Dante Lam, and Alan Mak/Felix Chong are present doing what they do best, there's still hope.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

...Here's hoping they find that energy that propelled them from the 60's to the 90's! Right now, Korea seems to be producing all the good stuff.

What's funny is that I've heard this statement several times over the years going back at least a decade. I do personally need to see more South Korean films to either agree or disagree with this statement.

What has annoyed me with Mainland fare is the incessant need to kowtow to a set state of philosophical/censor requirements. While great directors like Johnnie To (Drug War) can get around it much like the content of Hays-code Hollywood films by sagacious directors like Hitchcock or John Ford, many see the amount of people (and money) that their films can reach and soften the edges of their fare.

Ultimately it was a string of Mainland and Mainland/HK films that made me feel this way: 1911, Legendary Amazons, Flying Swords of Dragon Gate though I still have hope (Milkyway films for example), Donnie Yen and Ann Hui.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

2009-present

[kami]

What's with all the hate for FLYING SWORDS OF DRAGON GATE? The movie is no kung-fu-fest but it surely is not less grounded than the likes of BUTTERFLY & SWORD, the SWORDSMAN-trilogy or MAGIC CRANE. And how someone can complain about the CGI-stunts of FLYING SWORDS and on the other hand sees TAI CHI ZERO as a silver lining is beyond me. And the latter one pretends to be a martial arts-movie.

For me the decline began with a string of badly choreographed flicks by Corey Yuen, a man who was once my favorite choreographer and almost always dependable. Now he is a hack who seems to have to forgotten everything that made him famous. Sad. But the mainland chinese audience appears to like these badly edited wire- and CGI-enhanced pseudo fights.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

I guess when the money comes in, it's easy to sell out. I am sure that they went to Corey and said "make this singer look like a kung fu master". And just gave him so do and he said, ok! Say what you will about Donnie Yen, he tries, for the most part, to deliver decent action. I was not a fan, at all, of Tai Chi Zero.

Honestly, I have little patience for anything that comes out of China/HK. A certain smugness permeates everything, with the exception of a few films, such as Gallants, which sort of laughs at the whole "new China/HK is so cool!" attitude. It will be interesting when the bubble bursts and the roaring 20's turns into the great depression over there. Also, the whole PRC thing is unbearable, where people are killed in droves and then an afterword is attached (Little Big Soldier, Shaolin) that "China was united!!" so it was all worth while. United under what, a xenophobic tyrant?

finally, it seems that many of the plots have every subjected to one wealthy character, and now matter how many people die, as long as he survives and learns a life lesson, that is what is important (Shaolin), as he is, well, rich and important, and that's all that matters.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

What's with all the hate for FLYING SWORDS OF DRAGON GATE? The movie is no kung-fu-fest but it surely is not less grounded than the likes of BUTTERFLY & SWORD, the SWORDSMAN-trilogy or MAGIC CRANE. And how someone can complain about the CGI-stunts of FLYING SWORDS and on the other hand sees TAI CHI ZERO as a silver lining is beyond me. And the latter one pretends to be a martial arts-movie.

For me the decline began with a string of badly choreographed flicks by Corey Yuen, a man who was once my favorite choreographer and almost always dependable. Now he is a hack who seems to have to forgotten everything that made him famous. Sad. But the mainland chinese audience appears to like these badly edited wire- and CGI-enhanced pseudo fights.

Wait a sec. Are you saying that I'm referring to Tai Chi Zero as some sort of silver lining? I said that I rated it a 6/10. I'm not even interested in seeing the sequel. That's how much I like Tai Chi Zero.

[kami]

Wait a sec. Are you saying that I'm referring to Tai Chi Zero as some sort of silver lining? I said that I rated it a 6/10. I'm not even interested in seeing the sequel. That's how much I like Tai Chi Zero.

I didn't read the rating, I was referring to "But outside of Donnie, Tai Chi Zero and Warlords are the only decent ones I can think of in recent years." Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Ok that is understandable. I'm not exactly the best at expressing my thoughts sometimes. I did think I made it pretty clear, but I don't know.

As for Tai Chi Zero, I really enjoyed it. Good action, I like the style and comedy, but somewhere about halfway through it got boring. By the end I was just waiting to press the eject button so I could put something else in. Flying Swords was dreadful all the way through. I've tried my best to forget it but I remember there were just a couple moments that I enjoyed and I have to give it a harsh rating of 1/10.

[QueMuchita]

I loved Flying Swords, it has to be watched in 3D though as the action is specifically made to be seen in 3D.

[kami]

I loved Flying Swords, it has to be watched in 3D though as the action is specifically made to be seen in 3D.

True that! It's a solid wuxia-flick, though I was a bit disappointed because it lacked the effective narration of Tsui Hark's first DRAGON GATE INN, the one from 1992, whose action is also superior. I'd rate FLYING SWORDS 7/10 points.

[Secret Executioner]

Boy, people are pretty harsh on Flying Swords Of Dragon Gate... Picked it up out of curiosity some time ago, looks like I may regret this blind purchase...

To the person mentionning xenophobia, it's not really new. Older movies like the first OUATIC also have a very pro-Chinese/anti-Westerners element (the baddies are essentially the Westerners and Chinese who are in good terms with them). And let's not forget all the anti-Japanese movies, including classic movies like Fist Of Fury or King Boxer...

[Drunken Monk]

"Flying Swords..." isn't as bad as many people say it is, but it is far too long and contains some of the worst CGI ever committed to film. 3D or no 3D.

To be honest, I thought Tsui Hark was going downhill long before "Flying Swords..." as "Zu Warriors" was a fucking nightmare. And that was back in 2001. I remember picking up that DVD and getting excited about what I was about to see. Turns out it was just a shitty, nonsensical CGI-fest.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

As much as I disliked Tsui's Zu Warriors and thought Flying Swords was an unnecessary and mediocre "reimagining" of Dragon Gate, I do like his Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame (2010) very much. He's a director where I love several of his films but sometimes get infuriated because I think he can do better then he has been doing (maybe just because I like his older films so much more.)

[DrNgor]

Infernal Affairs and Princess D (both from 2002) - Nothing against the former, but once stuff like those get a Best Action Design nomination at the HK Movie Awards, you know that the HK genre is a shell of what it used to be.

[Secret Executioner]

As much as I disliked Tsui's Zu Warriors and thought Flying Swords was an unnecessary and mediocre "reimagining" of Dragon Gate, I do like his Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame (2010) very much. He's a director where I love several of his films but sometimes get infuriated because I think he can do better then he has been doing (maybe just because I like his older films so much more.)

The two Detective Dee are really nice films. I'd say I enjoyed the first one more, but not by much.

[Sheng]

What's with all the hate for FLYING SWORDS OF DRAGON GATE? The movie is no kung-fu-fest but it surely is not less grounded than the likes of BUTTERFLY & SWORD, the SWORDSMAN-trilogy or MAGIC CRANE. And how someone can complain about the CGI-stunts of FLYING SWORDS and on the other hand sees TAI CHI ZERO as a silver lining is beyond me.

Well, personally I would bracket out MAGIC CRANE because the maddening silliness of that joint superseded almost everything else the genre had to offer in its late 80s/early 90s heyday, but otherwise you hit it right on the head.

Now, Tsui Hark is still a reliable purveyor of tremendously well-crafted popcorn fantasy/wuxia fare that I find to be indefinitely more interesting than, say, shit like THE AVENGERS or GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY. But the man is way past his prime and his product is almost exclusively engineered to fit into today’s Mainland blockbuster market. Still, bearing the set rules and, er... “etiquette dictates” of this market in mind, I felt that SEVEN SWORDS, DETECTIVE DEE and, at least partially, also FLYING SWORDS OF DRAGON GATE were still reasonably entertaining films.

Infernal Affairs and Princess D (both from 2002) - Nothing against the former, but once stuff like those get a Best Action Design nomination at the HK Movie Awards, you know that the HK genre is a shell of what it used to be.

I think only the pigeonholing of HK cinema to be per se “action cinema” could lead to assessments of this nature. Well, its never been just that. Now, despite a certain cheesiness factor at the time of its release PRINCESS D was a very inventive film (certainly not because of the action though) and INFERNAL AFFAIRS had some memorable action designed by Lee Tat Chiu and Dion Lam, especially part 2. I mean, IA 1 & 2 belong to the most gripping and fascinating films in living memory, why the heck should the “HK genre” (which one anyway?) be thereafter “a shell of what it used to be”...?

[massa_yoda]

Now, Tsui Hark is still a reliable purveyor of tremendously well-crafted popcorn fantasy/wuxia fare that I find to be indefinitely more interesting than, say, shit like THE AVENGERS or GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY.

[reason108]

I loved ZU: Warriors from the Magic Mountain. It is an HK classic imo. However, The Legend of Zu is an ok piece of crap. Dragon Gate Inn, another HK classic. Flying Swords of Dragon Gate is probably for me the worst Tsui Hark film that I have ever seen. I still can't figure out what the point of having Jet Li in that film was. Utter poop. But, I think that most HK films these days are just re-hash. They want to be Hollywood and it appears that they are living the dream. HK films now tend to be paint-by-the-numbers crap with no risk or personality. Tai Chi Hero/Zero and wtf-ever was ok. I liked but certainly not for the martial arts. There have been so many generic films from HK lately that I had to stop watching. I just can't get over how exciting HK cinema use to be. It seemed like I was always seeing something new and exciting. HK cinema use to be "on the edge" cinema. Once they became the cool kids, they pretty much gave up the ghost. The only guys that can really do action are either dead or are getting very old.

I made a short list of some of the films that have left an impression on me. No need to mention Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Sammo Hung, Shaw Brothers, etc... There are way too many films to mention. Now, not all of these would be considered great films but they are classics to me.

Mr Vampire and sequels

ZU: Warriors from the Magic Mountain

The Bride with White Hair

A Chinese Ghost Story and sequels

Peking Opera Blues

Iron Monkey

Hard Boiled

The Killer

A Better Tomorrow

Bullet in the Head

City on Fire

Aces Go Places series

Heroic Trio

The Executioners (Heroic Trio II)

Yes, Madam

Story of Riki

Burning Paradise

Duel to the Death

God of Gamblers

Green Snake

Iceman Cometh

Legend of the Mountain/Raining in the Mountain

Naked Killer

Organized Crime and Triad Bureau

The Wicked City

Sex and Zen

Beast Cops

Painted Faces

Robotrix

Royal Tramp

Saviour of the Soul

Taxi Hunter

Tiger Cage I & II

Tiger on the Beat

Wing Chun

The Young and Dangerous series

Infernal Affairs series

The Untold Story

Is there anything coming out of HK these days that equal any of these films?

[DrNgor]

I think only the pigeonholing of HK cinema to be per se “action cinema” could lead to assessments of this nature. Well, its never been just that. Now, despite a certain cheesiness factor at the time of its release PRINCESS D was a very inventive film (certainly not because of the action though) and INFERNAL AFFAIRS had some memorable action designed by Lee Tat Chiu and Dion Lam, especially part 2. I mean, IA 1 & 2 belong to the most gripping and fascinating films in living memory, why the heck should the “HK genre” (which one anyway?) be thereafter “a shell of what it used to be”...?

Princess D and Infernal Affairs were certainly not bad movies. Cop thrillers and dramas about the lives of people certainly have their place in any country's cinema. But when a country/territory known for their inventive action set-pieces and superior choreography has their output decline to the point where said cop thriller (I'm sorry, any halfway competent person could orchestrate a body falling onto a car) and drama (the much-lauded CGI sequence did nothing for me) can compete against SO CLOSE and HERO, then to me, something is wrong.

[kami]

I want to come forward by saying I love LEGEND OF ZU and I prefer it in almost any regard to the visually impressive but otherwise rather dull first ZU movie. Now hate me!

And I have to agree with DrNgor: INFERNAL AFFAIRS is a great movie, even a masterpiece and I appreciate it for a variety of reasons but I certainly don't watch it for the action. HERO should have won the title for best action design by miles.

[DrNgor]

I want to come forward by saying I love LEGEND OF ZU and I prefer it in almost any regard to the visually impressive but otherwise rather dull first ZU movie. Now hate me!

And I have to agree with DrNgor: INFERNAL AFFAIRS is a great movie, even a masterpiece and I appreciate it for a variety of reasons but I certainly don't watch it for the action. HERO should have won the title for best action design by miles.

HERO did win the Best Action Design award. But the fact that a movie like INFERNAL AFFAIRS (and PRINCESS D) could even get nominated gave me a WTF feeling at the time that made me mourn the state of the HK action/kung fu/wuxia film.

[kami]

HERO did win the Best Action Design award. But the fact that a movie like INFERNAL AFFAIRS (and PRINCESS D) could even get nominated gave me a WTF feeling at the time that made me mourn the state of the HK action/kung fu/wuxia film.

Oh, okay. But you are right nonetheless. The few short action moments are adequate for their purpose but they are neither imaginative nor prominent enough to be even considered for the award.

[DiP]

I made a short list of some of the films that have left an impression on me. No need to mention Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Sammo Hung, Shaw Brothers, etc... There are way too many films to mention. Now, not all of these would be considered great films but they are classics to me.

Mr Vampire and sequels

ZU: Warriors from the Magic Mountain

The Bride with White Hair

A Chinese Ghost Story and sequels

Peking Opera Blues

Iron Monkey

Hard Boiled

The Killer

A Better Tomorrow

Bullet in the Head

City on Fire

Aces Go Places series

Heroic Trio

The Executioners (Heroic Trio II)

Yes, Madam

Story of Riki

Burning Paradise

Duel to the Death

God of Gamblers

Green Snake

Iceman Cometh

Legend of the Mountain/Raining in the Mountain

Naked Killer

Organized Crime and Triad Bureau

The Wicked City

Sex and Zen

Beast Cops

Painted Faces

Robotrix

Royal Tramp

Saviour of the Soul

Taxi Hunter

Tiger Cage I & II

Tiger on the Beat

Wing Chun

The Young and Dangerous series

Infernal Affairs series

The Untold Story

Is there anything coming out of HK these days that equal any of these films?

From 2010 and onwards if we may call "it" these days...

Gallants

Ip Man 2

Reign of Assassins

The Stool Pigeon

Bruce Lee, My Brother

Dream Home

Legend of the Fist

Little Big Soldier

Let the Bullets Fly

Life Without Principle

Punished

Wu Xia

Overheard 2

The Lost Bladesman

Shaolin

Motorway

Drug War

Cold War

The Bullet Vanishes

The Wrath of Vajra

Special ID

Rigor Mortis

Ip Man: The Final Fight

The Grandmaster

Firestorm

Unbeatable

The Monkey King

That Demon Within

Kung Fu Jungle