Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 6, 2014 Member Share Posted January 6, 2014 I love this movie so much! Some of the finest form of Shaolin boxing you'll see onscreen. I enjoy some good kick booters every once in awhile but to me the apple of my eye when it comes to watching Martial arts film is some good old fashion boxing. This movie is lean as hell to at only 97 mins, the fights come quick and the action doesn't stop. I love how Chang Cheh utilizes red filter whenever someone gets killed off, just marvelous stuff!!! This is also kind of a political thriller too, with the Manchurian and all always trying to wipe out the Shaolin Clan and its existence. Is it just me or does Chi Kuan Chun looks like Tony Jaa? SPOILER ALERT********* FU SHENG GOT STABBED IN THE COCK, OUCH!!!! DAMN YOU CRAZY ABBOT!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 6, 2014 Member Share Posted January 6, 2014 Fu Sheng gets it much worse in Men from the Monastery, imo. But this is undoubtedly the better film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 6, 2014 Member Share Posted January 6, 2014 Chang Cheh's obsession with Fu Sheng's butt is rather obvious! Chan Wei-man makes a great, kind of creepy, Pai Mei. And Lung Fei and Shan Mao enjoy a promotion from getting decked by Wang Yu or Bruce Li. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted January 9, 2014 Member Share Posted January 9, 2014 I would say that the scene where Sheng is whipped and writhes around is another Chang Cheh sadistic/homoerotic moment in the movie. I liked Men From the Monastery better. It's got Chen Kuan Tai as Hung Hsi Kuan. Gotta have Hung Hsi Kuan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 10, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 10, 2014 Wait a minute now, what's with the gay undertones? I love this movie does it mean I'm homo- sapiens,hahahhahaha!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 10, 2014 Member Share Posted January 10, 2014 Wait a minute now, what's with the gay undertones? I love this movie does it mean I'm homo- sapiens,hahahhahaha!!! Well Chang Cheh was forever fond of rather homo-erotic imagery, something remarked upon in the 70s by the critics. He was really hurt by the suggestion - yet his films got...gayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 10, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well Chang Cheh was forever fond of rather homo-erotic imagery, something remarked upon in the 70s by the critics. He was really hurt by the suggestion - yet his films got...gayer! How is it gay though, I don't get it? Besides the gay imagery, did you not like this film? Are you homophobic, or are you trolling me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Homoeroticism =/= homosexuality. We can argue until we're blue in the face whether Chang Cheh was gay or not (just look at previous threads on the subject). But if you look at his films, there are two things very clear. 1) He trades heavily, almost fundamentally, in what we in the West call "Saint Sebastian" imagery, muscular male bodies in exquisite states of pain. 2) His films have nearly no interest, nor understanding, of female characters. Maybe Chang Cheh wasn't gay, but whether he intended it or not, his chauvinist vision often lapsed over into camp (the real kind... not the "this movie is so bad its good" kind). Hell, someone like Josef von Sternbeg was by most accounts absolutely hetero, but his films are dripping with queer-camp. He was also a genuis, regardless of your orientation. Maybe this isn't the fundamental aspect of Chang's aesthetic vision... and certainly it might not be the most interesting aspect... but the work speaks for itself, not just the author. Honestly, just compare his work to someone like Gu Long, who also represented a shift towards "yanggang" chauvinism, but his works remain essentially romantic and interested in women. Or protege Wang Yu, whose films retain many aspects of "yanggang", but whose application is clearly narcissistic, not homoerotic. I'll try to rewatch Shaolin Avenger soon and get this conversation back on track. With that said, anyone who favors Men from the Monastery is crazy: not only is it the worst film of the Shaolin Cycle, it might be among the worst films of Chang's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 How is it gay though, I don't get it? Besides the gay imagery, did you not like this film? Are you homophobic, or are you trolling me? Ummm...no I am not homophobic. What with my crush on Chiang Sheng and all... Trolling? Really? I've been here since 2004, reply to one post of yours and you accuse me of trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Homoeroticism =/= homosexuality. We can argue until we're blue in the face whether Chang Cheh was gay or not (just look at previous threads on the subject). But if you look at his films, there are two things very clear. 1) He trades heavily, almost fundamentally, in what we in the West call "Saint Sebastian" imagery, muscular male bodies in exquisite states of pain. 2) His films have nearly no interest, nor understanding, of female characters. Maybe Chang Cheh wasn't gay, but whether he intended it or not, his chauvinist vision often lapsed over into camp (the real kind... not the "this movie is so bad its good" kind). Hell, someone like Josef von Sternbeg was by most accounts absolutely hetero, but his films are dripping with queer-camp. He was also a genuis, regardless of your orientation. Maybe this isn't the fundamental aspect of Chang's aesthetic vision... and certainly it might not be the most interesting aspect... but the work speaks for itself, not just the author. Honestly, just compare his work to someone like Gu Long, who also represented a shift towards "yanggang" chauvinism, but his films remains essentially romantic and interested in women. Or protege Wang Yu, whose films retain many aspects of "yanggang", but whose application is clearly narcissistic, not homoerotic. I'll try to rewatch Shaolin Avenger soon and get this conversation back on track. With that said, anyone who favors Men from the Monastery is crazy: not only is it the worst film of the Shaolin Cycle, it might be among the worst films of Chang's career. I think I enjoy both Men and Shaolin Avengers, but the structures of both are a tad weird: the former an anthology, the latter a huge flashback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 There are worthwhile scenes to be sure (the whole final fight), but if Chang wanted to make an epic, he should have. The film takes all these famous episodes, and just rushes through them, never getting below the surface level aspect of them. Who cares about Fong Sai-Yuk's bout with Tiger Lei if we have absolutely no motivation for their initial conflict? Who cares about Hu Huigan's showdown at the cotton mill if we don't get a real sense of his transformation within the Temple? Honestly, the movie peaks early: Fu Sheng's fight through Luohan Hall is my favorite scene of the movie. Otherwise, it comes down to how much you like the fights, and we've all seen better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Who cares about Hu Huigan's showdown at the cotton mill if we don't get a real sense of his transformation within the Temple? I had that problem with Showndown at the Cotton Mill too. Heck, the showdown was in the first 5mins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 11, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Homoeroticism =/= homosexuality. We can argue until we're blue in the face whether Chang Cheh was gay or not (just look at previous threads on the subject). But if you look at his films, there are two things very clear. 1) He trades heavily, almost fundamentally, in what we in the West call "Saint Sebastian" imagery, muscular male bodies in exquisite states of pain. 2) His films have nearly no interest, nor understanding, of female characters. Maybe Chang Cheh wasn't gay, but whether he intended it or not, his chauvinist vision often lapsed over into camp (the real kind... not the "this movie is so bad its good" kind). Hell, someone like Josef von Sternbeg was by most accounts absolutely hetero, but his films are dripping with queer-camp. He was also a genuis, regardless of your orientation. Maybe this isn't the fundamental aspect of Chang's aesthetic vision... and certainly it might not be the most interesting aspect... but the work speaks for itself, not just the author. Honestly, just compare his work to someone like Gu Long, who also represented a shift towards "yanggang" chauvinism, but his works remain essentially romantic and interested in women. Or protege Wang Yu, whose films retain many aspects of "yanggang", but whose application is clearly narcissistic, not homoerotic. I'll try to rewatch Shaolin Avenger soon and get this conversation back on track. With that said, anyone who favors Men from the Monastery is crazy: not only is it the worst film of the Shaolin Cycle, it might be among the worst films of Chang's career. I don't understand what constitute as gay or whatnot I'm not that deep into gay culture just might be my plain ignorance or lack of understanding so excuse me. If Chang Cheh is gay I could give two shits about it because it doesn't take away the entertainment value of watching a movie. Did this movie entertain me? Yes it did, I'm not even that deep into Chinese culture and history so maybe I don't quite understand the deep layers of what the intention of this movie really is meant to be. So again please excuse my ignorance. This movie now just got a whole lot more interesting with the gay undertones and I might give it multiple viewings now that you mentioned it. I just assumed it was just some kung fu movie with cool choreography and shit, but damn there's more to it than that, I LOVE IT!!!! and I LOVE YOU GUYS FOR POINTING THAT OUT!!! Ummm...no I am not homophobic. What with my crush on Chiang Sheng and all... Trolling? Really? I've been here since 2004, reply to one post of yours and you accuse me of trolling? I'm sorry for calling you a troll, I deeply sincerely apologize for that. I'm happy to get this much discussion about this movie, this is what I enjoy most about movie forums, we can go deep and argue further some more. I will continue to watch Chang Cheh movies gay or not, so you Chang Cheh fans out there, I will be here standing right beside you with brothers and arm!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 11, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 I had that problem with Showndown at the Cotton Mill too. Heck, the showdown was in the first 5mins! Speaking of Showdown at the cotton mill, is the print really that bad in the rarescope version? When I mean bad, it doesn't look like a celestial restored picture and the aspect ratio is incredibly small and doesn't cover my whole TV SCREEN!!!!! Or maybe it's just my bluray player with horrible settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 11, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 There are worthwhile scenes to be sure (the whole final fight), but if Chang wanted to make an epic, he should have. The film takes all these famous episodes, and just rushes through them, never getting below the surface level aspect of them. Who cares about Fong Sai-Yuk's bout with Tiger Lei if we have absolutely no motivation for their initial conflict? Who cares about Hu Huigan's showdown at the cotton mill if we don't get a real sense of his transformation within the Temple? Honestly, the movie peaks early: Fu Sheng's fight through Luohan Hall is my favorite scene of the movie. Otherwise, it comes down to how much you like the fights, and we've all seen better. You make good points and I can see where your view is coming from. That didn't bother me much because the action and pacing was so good, this was one of the leanest fastest kung fu movies I've seen in awhile. This was a brisk to get through and was quite amazed how fast the movie went by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Heck, I don't even think the two films being discussed score very big on the gaydar scale (except for Fu Sheng's death by sexual penetration). That stuff really comes to the forefront with his Venom films, where the emphasis moves further away from dramaturgy and heavier towards artifice and performance, making it much harder to ignore. Well, I guess you can ignore it, considering the fights are so uniformly awesome. But why would you. It's also there in the "Iron Triangle" films, namely New One-Armed Swordsman: there is absolutely no way that Ti Lung's character is anything but gay, something that Ti himself copped to in interviews. And everybody knows Wei Pai was the "cute one". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 11, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Heck, I don't even think the two films being discussed score very big on the gaydar scale (except for Fu Sheng's death by sexual penetration). That stuff really comes to the forefront with his Venom films, where the emphasis moves further away from dramaturgy and heavier towards artifice and performance, making it much harder to ignore. Well, I guess you can ignore it, considering the fights are so uniformly awesome. But why would you. It's also there in the "Iron Triangle" films, namely New One-Armed Swordsman: there is absolutely no way that Ti Lung's character is anything but gay, something that Ti himself copped to in interviews. And everybody knows Wei Pai was the "cute one". Hahhahahahaha!!! I love New One Armed Swordsman, that one death scene, ouch!!! Pretty bloody too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Heck, I don't even think the two films being discussed score very big on the gaydar scale (except for Fu Sheng's death by sexual penetration). That stuff really comes to the forefront with his Venom films, where the emphasis moves further away from dramaturgy and heavier towards artifice and performance, making it much harder to ignore. What the hell ?! (I haven't seen the film where that happens so... it sounds a bit surprising) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 11, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 What the hell ?! (I haven't seen the film where that happens so... it sounds a bit surprising) Hahahha, trust me it's the climax of the movie but painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted January 11, 2014 Member Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hahahha, trust me it's the climax of the movie but painful. Must be my morbid curiosity, but I'd be into checking out this one - that also goes for Men From The Monastery actually, even if it sounds like a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted January 12, 2014 Member Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well Chang Cheh was forever fond of rather homo-erotic imagery, something remarked upon in the 70s by the critics. He was really hurt by the suggestion - yet his films got...gayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cold Bishop Posted January 12, 2014 Member Share Posted January 12, 2014 Must be my morbid curiosity, but I'd be into checking out this one - that also goes for Men From The Monastery actually, even if it sounds like a bad one.Men from the Monastery is actually the film I'm referring to. Shaolin Avengers is one of the good ones, in my opinion. Certainly in the upper half of the Shaolin Cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted January 13, 2014 Member Share Posted January 13, 2014 Showdown at the Cottonmill was the sequel to Shaolin Avengers, both great films but I prefer Showdown better because of Tan's presence. Been a long while since I watched MFTM but seems like the fights were kinda slow and dull.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted January 14, 2014 Member Share Posted January 14, 2014 Showdown at the Cottonmill was the sequel to Shaolin Avengers, both great films but I prefer Showdown better because of Tan's presence. Been a long while since I watched MFTM but seems like the fights were kinda slow and dull.... Showdown isn't a sequel, it's another retelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted January 14, 2014 Member Share Posted January 14, 2014 Showdown isn't a sequel, it's another retelling. Oh ok brother my mistake. I was going by the back of dvd case where it states ,"This brilliant sequel to Shaolin Avengers". Guess maybe rarescope didn't know what film they had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.