47 Ronin (2014)

[shaolin swords]

whats with all the weird animals alien demons or what ever you want to call it lol:bigsmile:

every time I see that commercial it bugs me out haaaahaaa lol

what do yall think about it ???

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I think this film is gonna tank... hard... real hard.

[John]

CG monsters together with and claustrophically shot action scenes...and 47 Ronin has what like 37 film adaptations...oh, and a PG-13 rating. Yeah I'm breaking the door down...

[Gwai LO]

its a reeves movie! i would never expect to much

[Gwai LO]

this movie got shit reviews. anyone seen it yet?

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I saw it last night. I actually liked it (***/****). I'm thinking about writing a small review soon on it. Yes I have seen older Japanese versions of this story. Most of the criticism I have read on this has been pretty crappy commenting on the film before watching it, complaining of Reeves being Caucasian, upset about the infidelity to the story (most of this smells of nitpicking and pseudo-profundity and in my opinion has very little to do with serious criticism) etc... Of course, there are faults with the film and I will try to get to those later. I understand the criticisms of those who complain of the cross-genres in the movie, but I know many of us who are familiar with a variety of HK film are quite used to that.

For example mainstream writer Simon Abrams on rogerebert.com gave it */****; however, what I found interesting was he completely mistakes a major plot point making me wonder how much of the film had he actually watched:

After Akira poisons Asano's fighter with magic, half-man/half-demon Kai (Reeves) tries to save Asano's face by fighting on his behalf. But Kai is only a "half-breed," as he's repeatedly called, and not a real samurai, and is inevitably caught. The Shogun—"the lord of all Japan," as he's described baldly in an especially tedious bit of exposition—is lenient, so Asano is sentenced to commit seppuku rather than hang "like a common criminal."

I also think he meant to write "badly." [edit my mistake that word is correct the way he used it] But Lord Asano (Min Tanaka) is only sentenced to commit seppuku after HE was drugged and HE attacked an unarmed official in the Shogun's castle. This is a several minute sequence. How does a paid reviewer miss that?

[odioustrident]

The only mainstream film critics I've seen succeed in "getting" genre films, big or small, are working for avclub.com.

Writers from the NY Times to The Guardian try hard to pretend they understand the purpose behind certain projects; the real story is told in their lack of homework. There are so many examples of plot misinterpretation and incorrect references that it feels commonplace for people that read this shit.

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie. It has the sensibility of Big Trouble in Little China and it's being played with a completely straight face. I think the hardcore chanbara guys might find that offensive but if you expect a hokey Western fantasy film this might be fun!

edit: The Guardian actually has some decent reviews. They're not the best example of what I'm talking about... but everyone else is!

[Takuma]

I'm semi-interested. Cool cast, not bad idea, early trailer reminded me of Legend of the 8 Samurai, but I'm afraid I might get bored if it's a CGI fest.

My understanding is that the studio took the film out of the director's hands to make it more Keanu heavy.

The film tanked at JP box office, but that's no wonder. Americans doing JP topic + box office poison Rinko Kikuchi in it. (that being said, The Last Samurai was a hit back then)

[John]

Just politically speaking, the white lead thing is a tiresome trend. It would be nice if someone believed in the ability and not the identity of their actors and took what is at least perceived to be a financial risk in casting a non-white lead. As long as that isn't being touched with a ten foot pole, why not lambast it?

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Just politically speaking, the white lead thing is a tiresome trend. It would be nice if someone believed in the ability and not the identity of their actors and took what is at least perceived to be a financial risk in casting a non-white lead. As long as that isn't being touched with a ten foot pole, why not lambast it?

That would be nice too and I would have not minded to see the film in Japanese as well (which I thought was a bigger detriment than the Reeves casting choice; I have no issues with subtitles.) But would it have sold? How about the positives where the majority of casting is Japanese, the fact that he does not dominate the film and was in it less than I originally thought and the fact it did not sell a Hollywood ending (which was my biggest worry and these facets were considered financial risks.)

But if we are going to argue about the merits of the film, then attacking Reeves whiteness is actually an ad hominem argument and quite specious. Argue against the direction, the acting, storyline etc... The social-political argument is where it gets interesting (personally I believe that there should be more non-stereotyped roles for Chinese and Japanese characters) and could/should be written with a review/essay, but to denigrate the film or Reeves because of his nationality than that bothers me a bit -- make fun of his acting all you want though, that's free game.

I thought his acting here was a little better than in Man of Tai Chi where he directed himself. This was not the only film where his part got expanded. Anyone remember the controversy with The Watcher?

[massa_yoda]

I saw this a few days ago. I thought it was pretty good. A couple slow parts that dragged, but it was visually rich and had some effective moments of tension and action. A small dose of decent sword fighting too. The reason it has been critically panned is simply because it's called '47 Ronin'. There's an expectation that goes with that title. People see the dragons and demons (and Reeves) and they dismiss it automatically it seems. If it was called 'Legend of the Ronin' or something else who knows if the critics would have been so harsh!

[daisho2004]

47 Ronin

OK I just got back from seeing this movie, so here is my review:

1st. don't see it in 3D no need!

2nd. This is actually based on the True Story of Lord Asano and the 47 Ronin who wanted to avenge him. I honestly thought it was a totally different take, but they were using the 47 Ronin in the movie. I've seen a few versions of the 47 Ronin and this movie did try to add elements of it into this but with its Hollywood spin of course.

3rd. Keanu Reeves didn't fit IMO. But all the other Actors were Great.

4th. I felt the Actors speaking English instead of Japanese was weird, I understand its an American movie with Japanese Actors but I would have preferred them speaking Japanese with English subtitles.

5th. The Action scenes were OK nothing that I was like awesome or anything like that. Some of the CGI was cheesy.

But the this one Silver Samurai was huge and I was waiting to see a major fight at the end but there wasn't so don't get excited over that, because it doesn't happen.

This version was a Fantasy take on the 47 Ronin, if you like Witch craft and all that then you'll enjoy it more.

This is really a movie that you should just watch on BR when it comes out, and stay at home I think you'll enjoy it much more. So with all that said, I wouldn't rush out to see it in the Theaters unless you can take in an early matinee for 1/2 price.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Superflous Story

I hate being late for a movie. I know you usually have that buffer of 12 or more minutes of trailers (except for indie and documentaries) but I still hate being late. I naively thought that since I had to work that day and I took off early for the movie that everyone else was working the day after Christmas. I had thoughts of an empty theater where I could sit where I want, put my legs anywhere and have easy access to the restroom. When I got to the line, I thought Im going to miss the beginning crap! As I am mentally pushing the people ahead of me to pull out there money and be ready to purchase their tickets, I also silently curse those who fuddle with their pockets, dropping their change and not realizing the film they want to see is much later and holding up the line. Still I thought a mad rush through the doors, trip to the restroom and I would not miss much. Crap! The restroom is out-of-order (there are others, but none near where I was going. Oh well, I will wait until later. As I get into the theater I had the joy of noticing the THX intro and realized I am just in time. Ahh, something good happened. Crap! The theater is almost full, I was not expecting that. As your pupils widen to accommodate more light you scan a place to sit down. I had a friend with me so I had to find two seats (or split up which works well if there are not combined seats.) Crap! There are two adjacent seats available in the middle. I am a little tall so squeezing my way past several people is never fun, plus the fact that one lady would not move her feet so I almost ended up falling in the next row. Why is there a coat in my chair? Luckily the owner of that took it with her and I was able to squeeze in. I thought it would be prudent to stop drinking my chai/chocolate/coffee/random ingredients drink (known as Franken-chai at my favorite coffee establishment which is close to the theater) as I realized I was not going to be able to get out until the movie was over. Crap!

"“The Way of the Samurai is in desperateness.” – Lord Naoshige"

47 Ronin (2013: Carl Rinsch) ***/****

I did not need to see another completely sacrosanct adaptation of Chūshingura. There are already lots of jidai geki versions of this story though this would be the first American remake (that I know of). It is analogous to the adaptations of Shakespeare. For example the Richard Loncraine version of Richard III uses a completely different time period, but is reverent in the use of language and tone of the original play. For me the reverence is most important, especially if you are going to add/take away elements to the plot. For aesthetics I would have preferred this to be in Japanese than in English and most of the actors would fare better in their native language, except perhaps Keanu Reeves though I would have loved to hear his Japanese. The addition of Keanu Reeves as a half-breed and his romantic sub-plot and the supernatural elements were welcome by me who just recently enjoyed Keanus first directorial film Man of Tai Chi.

Reeves plays a Kai, a Japanese-Dutch(?) half-breed who was given up for dead as an infant and was taken in by a mystical group who have separated themselves from the Earthly world. He escaped as a teenager and was saved by Lord Asano (Min Tanaka) whom he pledged his loyalty to, though he is treated as an ainoko (this derogatory term was used post-WWII; I do not know what the term was used before) by many except those who recognize his character including his childhood friend and unfulfilled love Mika (Kô Shibasaki) who is the daughter of Asano.

Lord Kira wants Asanos land and has procured the services of a witch to help. The Witch (Rinko Kikuchi) was bewitching and with her brewing hatred was one of my favorite female antagonists since Lady Kaede (Mieko Harada) of Ran. Though I thought they should have developed more of her backstory and how it coincides with Kai. This leads to the salient aspect of all versions of this film, Asano being forced to commit seppuku because of Kira though it is different here than in the play/movies versions and then the formation of the ronin (masterless samurai: though the film probably did not need to explain the concept several times.)

My biggest worry was that the ending was going to be some bizarre scene of forgiveness and everybody gets what they want. While I have read many complaints about the Hollywoodization of this there are in-fact several anti-Hollywood facets to this film from the mostly Japanese cast to the ending which I wondered if any producer was trying to change while this was being made. Imagine trying to sell those aspects while trying to gets funds for the film. Seeing this in a crowded house I was worried that their might be some jeering.

This is Carl Rinschs first full-length directorial feature and much has been made that he lost control of the feature after it went over budget (there have been conflicting reports on the amount of this.) I thought the fight scenes were done decently. There is a little too much cutting here and there during them, but nothing on the scope of Paul Greengrass. But where I thought it shined was the mixture of fantasy and chambara elements that made this an interesting hybrid. I thought the human elements were thought out well, especially the relationship between Kai and Mira as well as Kai with Ôishi (Hiroyuki Sanada: The Twilight Samurai, also recently seen him in The Wolverine.)

It was an enjoyable film that I plan on getting when it comes out on BD/DVD. I will probably even call this underrated in a years time. I saw this in 2-D, which I normally do, and the cinematography from John Mathieson (Gladiator) looked fine, the color palette was done quite well and the sometimes gothic fantasy atmosphere came across creepily well. I would definitely be interested in anyones opinion of the 3-D aspects of the movie.

Sources:

47 Ronin Historical Origins: It is difficult-to-impossible to keep a complete historical fidelity whether to play or movie when facts are always in question. Most of the complaints about this film being historical accurate are actually complaints about the film not being accurate with the play.

Rotten Tomatoes: This film is pretty much panned all around and will be a box office failure (there are so many failures I have liked.) But I have to go with my gut and my feelings with watching the film. I liked it, just like I liked Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter (another historically inaccurate film) both cross-genre films that are completely serious about their material. Several of these critics expect their cross-genre films to be campy and cannot understand it when it is not. This is one of the biggest mistakes with reviewers who write about what they want in the film instead of what the film actually is.

Is Carl Rinsch Still Working on 47 Ronin?

[Casshern]

The movie is a boxoffice failure.

[VenomsFan]

Box office failure doesn't mean it's a bad movie. It can mean they showed it more screens than needed. It can also mean that the US audience will not pay money to see this kind of movie.

And you wonder why Rurouni Kenshin live action never got a US release - even limited - although it was distributed by Warner Brothers.

[Takuma]

How postproduction fights and bad buzz led to one of Hollywood's biggest flops of 2013

- http://variety.com/2013/film/news/47-ronin-box-office-bomb-1201012170/

[masterofoneinchpunch]

published today:

On "47 Ronin," Samurai Hair and Other Cultural Confusions by Jana Monji

A completely negative article (I have some issues with it, way too much nitpicking though with some serious points, but I don't want to beat a dead horse), but it got me thinking.

Has there been a fire-breathing dragon in either Japanese or Chinese cinema?

[GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG]

Mikey likes IT.

This movie 47 Ronin IMO was perfect in every respect.

My middle name is Michael so I can say my first sentence with GUSTO. LOL!

This makes me want to see 'Man of Tai Chi'.

GD Y-Y

[AlbertV]

I reviewed it on the main site and the bottom line. I liked it. So what if the mainly comprised Japanese cast spoke English...it was nicely done. This is gonna sound crazy to some of you, but I think Keanu Reeves found his niche: he puts in hard work performing action scenes and I think this, MAN OF TAI CHI, and with his upcoming JOHN WICK film and RAIN series that Reeves finally found what he could be meant to do: action star? Possibly.

I liked the supernatural touch to the legendary story of the 47 Ronin. It is clear that was not just Keanu's show...this was Keanu and Hiroyuki Sanada's show!

[QueMuchita]

I too liked this movie, I'll have to watch it again soon though as I watched it a few months ago and I can't remember too much of it in detail. I think the title of the movie gave people a certain expectation and the movie went in a totally different direction.

[GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG]

Count me in as ONE who thought this film was 'wondrously' done.

Every detail costumes natural scenery ET all was simply IMO very beautiful in all respects.

I will have acsess to Man Of Tai Chi soon.

Hope it lives up to Keanu's love of this genre.

GD Y-Y

[AlbertV]

Speaking of Keanu...he hits the 5-0 today!

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Rewatched 47 Ronin (2013: Carl Rinsch): I have an upcoming essay of this, but I wanted to do a small write up and a tweet thread full of pics, esoteric information and random thoughts.  I first saw this in the theater to a completely packed crowd that was enthralled by the movie.  It was one of my favorite audiences (and I tend to dislike audiences). 

I usually do not change my mind between rewatches and I did not here.  I still like this film a lot.  I feel it is underrated.  This is an adaptation of Chūshingura (47 Ronin) -- one of the most famous of Japanese stories.  This movie is analogous to doing a Shakespeare play in a different setting. 

I would have preferred this in Japanese, but the English did not bother me as much as the first watch and with its mythical setting and multicultural design it is not an issue.  This is an amalgam of genres.  But the important aspect is that it is reverent to the source and I have seen several jidai geki versions of this story. 

Here Keanu plays Kai, a half-breed (Dutch/Japanese I believe) who was one day found by Lord Asano and adopts him (in real life during the Tokugawa era foreigners were abhorred) as a servant (obviously he could never be a samurai).  Kai has a past.  He was brought up by strange creatures in the Tengu Forest who resemble Chad Grey in a Mudvayne video.. His ability surpasses any ninja. 

The story of the 47 Ronin always deals with the revenge of their lord, here Asano was set up by a witch who is working for Lord Kira.  Asano bared his arms in the presence of the Emperor and attacked Kira.  Asano was forced to commit seppuku – ritual suicide.  This leaves his samurai as ronin and his kingdom for Kira. 

Revenge is needed and a dish best served cold.  It takes time to do it right and at some point they need to get the band back together since they are on a mission from God. 

I liked the world created by this movie.  The aesthetics are quite nice with the combination of CGI used for the exterior (like a matte painting) and the giant sets created.  The creatures were an updating of Japanese folklore with the kitsune (fox creature that can resemble a human, this was also in Chinese folklore as well, especially Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio), the Kirin (with that awesome boar-like hunt which reminded me of King Lear and like Game of Thrones this could go very badly) and Nure-onna which is a snake-like woman. 

I liked Keanu here.  He had a good amount of input into the film – which I know he liked.  I also liked the witch (Rinko Kikuchi) who is one of my favorite female Japanese antagonists along with Lady Kaede in Ran.

Small issues: I do find it hilarious that young Kai has a British accent that later changes into a Keanu Reeves accent. The omniscient narrator was needed. The tattoo skeleton guy should have had more scenes (I heard some were deleted, but they were not on the DVD). 

However, I just love this film.  Lovecraftian Samurai is an awesome name for the tall (7’7” Neil Fingleton is the tallest man in England) characters (he always plays the oni).  Keanu is Keanu (profound) and how often do you see a mainstream film where a main character gladly kills so he can finally belong. 

[Karlos]

You're definitely right about the aesthetic: some lovely, anime-esque visuals on show here.

 

[masterofoneinchpunch]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:53 PM, Karlos said:

You're definitely right about the aesthetic: some lovely, anime-esque visuals on show here.

 

In my tweet thread I put a ton of snapshots in it: