Member Gwai LO Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 After watching the full movie (no subtitle) i actually liked the action. i thought JeeJa Yanin was actually awesome. she had a lot more action scenes than i was lead to believe i liked that both her and JAA got their asses kicked a little, it made the movie more believe able. only complaints i had about it was the bike chase was so damn long.. that was about 20 mins of repetitive action and the cgi warehouse burning down where he lights his feet on fire... HAHAHAHA laughable that was the only "cheesy" part of the movie imo.. im part of the rare few who didnt mind RZA, id much rather have RZA as a main fight then Keanu Reeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Gwai LO Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 This may be a stupid question.. what style does Crump use in this movie? its like a Capoeira/Boxing hybrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member BaronK Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 He has a kali, cap background. Seemed like he blended a touch of those plus boxing. RZA should not have a voice. He can't talk, can't rap. Why would you even have someone that can't clearly, audibly speak, speak in any movie? The fire fight had some of the best chor in the movie in my opinion. Cgi aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted January 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2014 For those who've seen the movie, all of the onset photos that came out also had Dan Chupong in them...the lead from 'Born to Fight', 'Dynamite Warrior', & the Crow Ghost character from 'Ong Bak 2 & 3'....nobody seems to be mentioning him though from those who have seen it, does he not really feature in the action? After the wire-work assisted, rather soft fight, that he has with Jaa in 'Ong Bak 3', I was looking forward to seeing them throw down together in a modern day environment more than I was Jaa with Crump if I'm honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member SiamKnight Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have decided to watch the movie again without putting any pressure and great expectation on Tony Jaa. To my surprised, I actually enjoy the movie a lot than the first time. Before you watch this movie. Open your mind, do not judge, just sit back and enjoy the ride and you will discover that this is one good classic beat time up martial art in a long time. By the way, someone posted this on youtube with English sub.. watch it before it gets taken down: enjoy.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsyjSRi5FL0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 Wow, this movie is one really boring hell of a crap-fest. If instead of ONG BAK this would have been the first Tony Jaa-movie I guess no one would still speak of it or think of Thailand as an action-movie-country. The first TYG is by far my favorite of the Thai-actioners and everything this one does right the sequel does wrong. Gone are the impressive fights with their long takes, the great camera work that complimented the fantastic fight choreography, gone are the death-defying stunts. Instead we get very short takes, really bad CGI, ineffective camera work and confusing editing that hampers the subpar fight choreography which already suffers from bad timing and a general lack of inspiration. Of course there are some cool moments, but they are wasted on a shitty movie that doesn't even entertain as a funny trash fest. I guess that was it for the Thai movie industry as a source for spectacular action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phoenix Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 This seems to be the modern martial arts film cycle: A- A long build up of information with promo shots, posters, teasers, trailers and so on. Over a year or two most people have very high expectations and some are very invested in the film and it's stars / team. B- The film is released and if it isn't as good as the expectations made it seem two things or more can happen. i) Huge disappointment and backlash even if it isn't really that bad. ii) Denial and excuses as people heavily invested in something may not want to admit the truth. That's if it really is terrible. C- adults are now fanboys. I hate that term but that's the only term applicable when, say, fans of golden age HK films criticise Tony Jaa and others but never apply that criticism to Donnie Yen or whoever. None of this is my view on TYG2, I just keep seeing these same things happen with every new film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 fans of golden age HK films criticise Tony Jaa and others but never apply that criticism to Donnie Yen or whoever. And who does this? If I remember correctly Donnie Yen's SPECIAL ID received heavy criticism in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member BaronK Posted January 22, 2014 Member Share Posted January 22, 2014 Actually C is true. It's called Thai-ism. When OB came out and the world was a glow in Jaa, the HK kickboxing fans went nuts. Where are the exchanges? When will he work with someone from HK? HK this, HK that. Then came this term, showreel. Didn't exist as a term in regard to movies until the everyone was riding the Thais. Now everyone throws the term around but pay attention to the persons and countries when used. Doesn't have exchanges. It's a showreel. Slo mo hits, showreel. Then there's this one. Guys where standing around waiting to get hit. It was like a showreel. Usually spoken about the Thais. The Viet stuff are trickfests but they have exchanges, so they are, not showreels. See how that works? Look at the disappointment in some HK/China movies in many of these threads and look at the attacks and super break downs of the Thai movies. The vitriol usually comes from the HK is king, kickboxing boys. Some people are open to all styles all coutries. Some are HK fanboys. Love Chocolate cause it was Chan like in some ways and had the kicks and such but didn't like the more Thai aspects. When they went and got creative and did Raging Phoenix the hate really came out. No one really breaks it down until the Thais come out. B happens because of the hype machine. Finding out about a project in having interest until it is released. There is so little that is actually made anymore that there is more attachment to every project. With Special ID, look at that last trailer. #3. That thing would hype and pump anyone up. Excited me. It was not the movie that that trailer hyped. That's on them. Do I care about that movie not being good? No. It's weak in every sense of the word. Next. Sounds Like Zhao Wen Zhou and everyone else was right about it. This project(TYG2) did the early promo stuff with Jaa and Jija and people were excited and in the end, whatever. The difference between now and when everyone got into whatever got them interested in HK(old school, Stunts-kickboxing/90s new wave), is that they were already done by the time you got around to seeing them, vs now you are waiting for them to be released wiith anticipation. The only hype before was what others had said about something you had yet seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Assante Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 The only good thing about TYG 2 is Marrese Crump, and even he suffers from the poor editing designed, in my opinion, to make up for Tony Jaa's evident regression as a screen-fighter. Granted, he is no longer in the prime he was back when they shot the first installment of this series, but does that mean he deserves a pass when we have the likes of Scott Adkins, who is the exact same age as Jaa, arguably getting better as an actor and screen-fighter?! I don't think so. And I say this as someone who adores Jaa's work, including the two Ong Bak follow ups, both of which I loved for various reasons. In short, TYG 2 is a heartbreaking bad film in every sense save for Marrese Crump, who needs his own showcase, not including Formless, because RZA's involvement means it'll suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 I disagree that Tony Jaa is passed his prime. He shows great talent in some of the fights in the film, but they are so poorly shot and edited that it makes the fights seem laboured. It will be interesting to see what he will be like now that he will be with another director etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not trying to criticise anyone with this question, but... Why has out collective tolerance level fallen so low, do you think? We go back and watch severely under cranked, wire filled, poorly acted, horrendously dubbed, gimmick filled, fake blood spilling cheese fests all the time. Hell, it's what half this genre is built on. And yet some of us are so unforgiving when it comes to modern martial arts films. Is it just that we expect more? Is it that cinema has come such a long way and so we feel slighted when we're given less than stellar film making? Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 23, 2014 Author Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not trying to criticise anyone with this question, but... Why has out collective tolerance level fallen so low, do you think? We go back and watch severely under cranked, wire filled, poorly acted, horrendously dubbed, gimmick filled, fake blood spilling cheese fests all the time. Hell, it's what half this genre is built on. And yet some of us are so unforgiving when it comes to modern martial arts films. Is it just that we expect more? Is it that cinema has come such a long way and so we feel slighted when we're given less than stellar film making? Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? Assante, would you like to counter this argument? Don't mean to single you out but anyone that find the movie unappealing, reply here. I've yet to see the movie so I shouldn't even be talking here, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? Because FONG SAI YUK may be goofy, but it works perfectly, has interesting story and characters and great and inspiredly choreographed fights that are fittingly photographed an edited to the point. TOM YUM GOONG on the other hand is a sequel to a well liked movie, only without the merits of the original. I agree, people nowadays are a little bit harsh to many new movies and I would argue that SPECIAL ID is a lot better than many movies from the golden 80s, but TOM YUM GOONG 2 is not. There are better Philip-Ko-movies than this travesty. It just doesn't deliver in any department (okay, I liked the score, but that's not the reason I watch these movies) and just because it's less worse than, let's say, TWINS MISSION doesn't mean it's to be recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 Because FONG SAI YUK may be goofy, but it works perfectly, has interesting story and characters and great and inspiredly choreographed fights that are fittingly photographed an edited to the point. TOM YUM GOONG on the other hand is a sequel to a well liked movie, only without the merits of the original. I agree, people nowadays are a little bit harsh to many new movies and I would argue that SPECIAL ID is a lot better than many movies from the golden 80s, but TOM YUM GOONG 2 is not. There are better Philip-Ko-movies than this travesty. It just doesn't deliver in any department (okay, I liked the score, but that's not the reason I watch these movies) and just because it's less worse than, let's say, TWINS MISSION doesn't mean it's to be recommended. Fair argument. It just feels as though some arguments are tailor made to be particularly contradictory. For example, the "Tony Jaa doesn't look nearly as good as he used to!" argument. Lau Kar Leung was pretty long in the tooth when he made "Drunken Monkey," which was universally recognized as rubbish, and yet had he announced a brand new film in, say, 2012, we all would have been insanely excited. My point is, do we criticize too harshly? It seems we (including myself) expect all types of media to be tailor made to our specific tastes. This essentially means that every film Jackie Chan makes that isn't "Drunken Master 3" disappoints us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Noelle Shadow Kick Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not trying to criticise anyone with this question, but... Why has out collective tolerance level fallen so low, do you think? We go back and watch severely under cranked, wire filled, poorly acted, horrendously dubbed, gimmick filled, fake blood spilling cheese fests all the time. Hell, it's what half this genre is built on. And yet some of us are so unforgiving when it comes to modern martial arts films. Is it just that we expect more? Is it that cinema has come such a long way and so we feel slighted when we're given less than stellar film making? Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? I find this sentiment on this site a lot. I think part of it has to do with what people grew up with. I'm 24 so I didn't see all the old SB movies dubbed in theaters and thus have no nostalgic feelings toward dubs. A lot of posters here are upset when versions don't contain dubs, whereas I wish they'd all be thrown away and am only upset when movies ONLY contain dubs. Obviously I'm making blanket statements, but I think it's possible that I'm more forgiving to modern films because it's what I grew up with and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 My point is, do we criticize too harshly? It seems we (including myself) expect all types of media to be tailor made to our specific tastes. I just can speak for myself and I don't think I criticize too harshly, at least not in this case. It doesn't have anything to do with specific tastes when someone expects a sequel to live up to the standard the original set. After watching TYG2 I watched the first TYG again to verify if maybe my taste had changed. It hadn't, TOM YUM GOONG is still a great martial-arts-actioner with fantastic, innovative fights and awe-inspiring physical abilities of the actors. I could easily forgive TYG2 for not being as great as the original, but the sequel is worlds below this modern classic. And I really can't imagine anyone loving the dilettante action of TYG2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 I just can speak for myself and I don't think I criticize too harshly, at least not in this case. It doesn't have anything to do with specific tastes when someone expects a sequel to live up to the standard the original set. After watching TYG2 I watched the first TYG again to verify if maybe my taste had changed. It hadn't, TOM YUM GOONG is still a great martial-arts-actioner with fantastic, innovative fights and awe-inspiring physical abilities of the actors. I could easily forgive TYG2 for not being as great as the original, but the sequel is worlds below this modern classic. And I really can't imagine anyone loving the dilettante action of TYG2. See, I think the first "Tom Yum Goong" is a terrible film and yet I love it for its action. Everything else about it is dire...in my opinion. I feel as though I can look at the sequel in the same way. Is the action of the same standard as the first film? Certainly not, but it was obvious that they weren't necessarily going for the same aesthetic. Some of the gimmicks didn't work but I feel that as a run of the mill action film, it works. It might not work as a sequel or a unique martial arts film but as a standard martial arts/action flick, I can see its merits. I guess it's a case of different strokes for different folks and some people are more forgiving than others. I just feel like there are dozens of plotless, special effects filled, nonsense films that I still enjoy and love because they give me an entertaining experience. But hey, if you're not entertained, you're not entertained I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 See, I think the first "Tom Yum Goong" is a terrible film and yet I love it for its action. Everything else about it is dire I wouldn't call it terrible, but it's a stupid movie with a ridiculous story, but the action rocks big time, and there's a lot of it! The sequel is also a stupid movie with a ridiculous story and a lot of action, but unfortunately the action sucks big time! If you liked TYG for it's delicious idiocy then I guess you will appreciate the sequel. And I am not convinced the action from TYG2 was made with a different approach than the first film, it's just made lazily. Like I said there are a couple of nice scenes and cool moves, but they are too sporadic in appearance to save the whole mess for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TheGrimReaper Posted January 23, 2014 Member Share Posted January 23, 2014 Frankly speaking I admire Tony Jaa for putting Thailand firmly on the martial arts scene with his exceptional Ong Bak, then I was watching TYG I felt as if something was missing form this movie, but nevertheless liked it, then it came Ong Bak 2 - very fine sequel IMHO. Sadly from that point on Tony Jaa became victim of various factors (including trying for something new) and subsequently failed to deliver in Ong Bak 3 & here in TYG 2 - it is my own slightly negative opinion and I do not hold anyone to take my words for granted - each member of this community has its own unique opinion on any movie released, so anyone should be left to express his opinion about anything he finds negative, dire, boring, stupid, brilliant, awesome and so on. I really enjoyed Ninja 2 - I think that it was made on even lower budget than TYG 2, but it delivers an impeccable fighting scenes as well as charisma of Scott Adkins I do not like Fong Sai Yuk for being too wire-fu (I dislike the whole usage of wires in any movie - well it a few exceptions) and I am a bit old person myself, so I was raised and gained love for old school martial arts movies - the first ever to watch in my life was Five Superfighters, Shaolin monastery, Hong Gil Dong, and few more - therefore I apologize for all offended by my rants and negative words towards most of the recent movies in the genre. Greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted January 23, 2014 Administrator Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not trying to criticise anyone with this question, but... Why has out collective tolerance level fallen so low, do you think? We go back and watch severely under cranked, wire filled, poorly acted, horrendously dubbed, gimmick filled, fake blood spilling cheese fests all the time. Hell, it's what half this genre is built on. And yet some of us are so unforgiving when it comes to modern martial arts films. Is it just that we expect more? Is it that cinema has come such a long way and so we feel slighted when we're given less than stellar film making? Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? I find this sentiment on this site a lot. I think part of it has to do with what people grew up with. I'm 24 so I didn't see all the old SB movies dubbed in theaters and thus have no nostalgic feelings toward dubs. A lot of posters here are upset when versions don't contain dubs, whereas I wish they'd all be thrown away and am only upset when movies ONLY contain dubs. Obviously I'm making blanket statements, but I think it's possible that I'm more forgiving to modern films because it's what I grew up with and vice versa. I agree with you two. Differences of opinion are part of what makes reading at this forum interesting. And it can be eye-opening to hear why others liked or disliked a film. But I do sometimes feel that people are just filled with hate that they want to throw at everything that isn't exactly what they think it should be. It seems that nothing will please certain people. I'm guilty of occasionally being "hard to please", but mostly I'm just watching these films for pure enjoyment. As for different countries and genres, I dig different elements of just about all of them. Probably lowest on my watch list are the more recent cheapy Japanese splatter-fests and rom-coms (any country). I haven't seen TOM YUM GOONG 2 yet, but needless to say, after all these comments above, my expectations are lowered considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not trying to criticise anyone with this question, but... Why has out collective tolerance level fallen so low, do you think? We go back and watch severely under cranked, wire filled, poorly acted, horrendously dubbed, gimmick filled, fake blood spilling cheese fests all the time. Hell, it's what half this genre is built on. And yet some of us are so unforgiving when it comes to modern martial arts films. Is it just that we expect more? Is it that cinema has come such a long way and so we feel slighted when we're given less than stellar film making? Why is something as blatantly goofy and over the top as, say, "Fong Sai Yuk" celebrated while something like "Tom Yum Goong 2" is generally disliked? This is a great question, there are a lot of different tastes in this small genre of ours, I'm someone that loves Phantom Kung Fu and over the years I've had several people tell me it's the biggest pile of trash they ever watched A movie can be bad, but if it has heart that's another story. For me I never go in hating a movie, but, your going to like what you like. I was really excited to watch Yamada: The Samurai of Ayothaya after seeing the trailer, it ended up being a total boring bomb I really just have nothing good to say about it. As For TYG2 I think Jaa has took the brunt of failure of his movies all on his shoulders and I think that's unfair. Ong Bak is up there with the greatest martial art films imo, it's not perfect but I can pop it in for a watch anytime. TYG is a mess, it's barely watchable for me, and it was a movie I so wanted to like, that mess had nothing to do with Jaa. With OG2 Jaa had a vision of making one of the greatest MA movies of all time and sadly took on to much and dropped the ball(he's not the first person to go over budget on a movie), but for me the movie is far from the failure people make it out to be. A good amount of blame needs to go to Sahamongkol studio who came in and really half-ass threw the movie together, adding a character - the crow - that makes absolutely no sense to the narrative, then shoehorning a 3rd movie that Jaa had barely anything to do with. I still for the life of me can't figure out why they can't edit a movie, it's like they took 10 steps back after Ong Bak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kami Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 Ong Bak is up there with the greatest martial art films imo, it's not perfect but I can pop it in for a watch anytime. TYG is a mess, it's barely watchable for me How someone can love ONG BAK and then be disappointed with TYG is beyond me. The movie follows the same formula (with an equally ridiculous premise) but fills it with much more and better (more variety) action. What's not to like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 How someone can love ONG BAK and then be disappointed with TYG is beyond me. The movie follows the same formula (with an equally ridiculous premise) but fills it with much more and better (more variety) action. What's not to like? The editing, Ong Bak moves somewhat fluidly from one set piece to the next, upping the action as it goes along, I still think the weapon fights in the caves is some of the best action Thailand has on film. TYG looks like someone with ADHD on cocaine edited it, it did have some great action, but who uses fluorescent bulbs for weapons? What's so ridiculous about the premises for Ong Bak? You have a crime syndicate stealing Thailand's Buddhist artifacts and selling them abroad, Jaa was your country boy comes to the big city fish out of water that believed his village was going to meet it's demise if he didn't get the head back. I'll give you the elephant though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member derwood Posted January 24, 2014 Member Share Posted January 24, 2014 TYG2 is, at its core, old Jackie Chan on drugs I went into this with lowered expectations, although they were extremely low to begin with, & found myself loving every minute The OTT set pieces combined with fluid editing & choreography set this well above TJs releases since Ong Bak. As simple as the story is, its executed well. Each character is introduced & given a sufficient relevance to their actions giving the film a more involved feeling than was even necessary. My only complaint was #20. As smoking hot as she was, her fighting was dismal, even making the Rza look the goods!! If you are a fan of JC's crazy stunt & fight combo work then you should genuinely enjoy this film The mediocre CGI wasnt as bad as I expected, & I even believe its a side effect of the 3d which would be later added. Some scenes look almost 3d in a 2d format, & for that I actually think they pulled off some great 'on scene' camerawork. I fully intend on using my tv's 3d mode to watch this film a 2nd time as it looks like the effects would be awesome. Thank you Tony Jaa for coming back from your disjointed efforts since Ong Bak. Not that I ever lost faith in your abilities, just your alignment with filmmakers & poor screenplays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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