Phantom Thief (Hwang Jang-Lee)

[HAZ]

Yes, Fusubs was totally sabotaged by others. And I remember Jamal's Rarescope projects also being very nearly ruined. It was FLK in both cases. There's a common link there.

[bigrogie]

Yep, I'm a presumed lawyer!

Canadian copyright laws concerning old Asian movies......That's a great joke you just made! :tongue:

Glad to know Falkor will help you.

Wow, no need to be so defensive Roger, I was just pointing out the type of action that destroys projects (you should know what I mean since you invested sweat and tears in Fusubs). Again, I don't want to open the whole discussion on that subject over again, fans/buyers can make their own mind.

As for the legal aspect you mentioned you should know very well (as you are a lawyer I presume?!) that those old films are mostly from the public domain. Now, I do not think that the Canadian law approves of selling bootlegs massively from the Quebec territory, the last time I've check Berne act was only valid in the States.

Btw, for the Phantom Thief fundraise Falkor volunteered to help, which is very kind of him.

[bigrogie]

Yes, Fusubs was totally sabotaged by others. And I remember Jamal's Rarescope projects also being very nearly ruined. It was FLK in both cases. There's a common link there.

I wouldn't go as far as «sabotaged» as the reason why FuSubs stopped. FLK has nothing to do with it really. We knew FLK was selling our projects but we never (at least I didn't) pretended that they belonged to us. My buddy Kaleyboy took a fit about this with FLK and they closed the thread.... You get upset though but you go on. Our group was doing it all on our own time and never asked for a single penny before releasing anything. Once released, the DVDs ordered were always shipped within 24 hrs by me. After releasing 20 movies we all decided that it was not worth our time and effort to end up selling on average 10 or so copies of a title at $7 each. That was the main reason FuSubs stopped. Too much time consuming to do these projects and we were doing one a month, not 2 or 3 a year. FLK did screw-up Jamal though.

[odioustrident]

Good to revisit this debate from time to time... but what is the point of this thread? You found a Betamax and are looking to make some money back from your old projects and/or cover your work on this one. Do you have an estimate of what you'd like to raise yet?

[monkeygift]

From what I've heard yes Rogie is right, FLK screwed up a lot of people. That's too bad because they really know their stuff

But at the end, if they sell their "supposedly" FLK project 20 Euros while the previous project from another group was 10-20$ then who cares about FLK?! lol

[odioustrident]

Another semi-questionable move is portraying commonly traded films as if they were exclusive to one seller or even projects. I don't have an outright problem with this... but it's just another example of how we're in a grey area regarding ethics.

[monkeygift]

@Odioustrident: First we'll see how many people Falkor can get into the idea and 2nd, we need to see if it's possible to get this film subtitled.

[bigrogie]

From what I've heard yes Rogie is right, FLK screwed up a lot of people.

But at the end, if they sell their "supposedly" FLK project 20 Euros while the previous project from another group was 10-20$ then who cares about FLK?! lol

That's been my view for years. Who cares about FLK!

[HAZ]

There are many grey-areas to this, but when it comes to people within a very small community of traders, and projects in particular, you'd think the bigger players/collectors would let others just do their thing. There is no doubt that this is all ethically dubious, and that no one putting these things out owns these things, but I am often surprised that collectors just don't let other collectors be. There's a lot of bullying and politics within this. Sometimes a collector gets pissed when a guy like Pete won't trade or sell a certain rare, and then will try to fuck with FLK. FLK then thinks they should get their own back by screwing up someone else. I have heard endless arguments about this, and have seen these scenarios unfold often. Selling other people's projects in micro small community like ours doesn't come down to profit, but ego, anger and bruised feelings. Its on some Romance of The Three Kingdoms shit. Money has nothing to do with it. If fandom was a boat that was sinking, everyone would die because they were too busy cutting each others throats to evacuate the ship.

[monkeygift]

Restoring PHANTOM THIEF:

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**Needless to say that the original aspect ratio was all stretched and here is shown properly in both original and remastered prints to give you a good example of the color calibration work involved.

[Sevket]

Great work

[bigrogie]

I couldn't care less of what you think.

It's not very nice to sit and bash people there is no need for it. But I do not think its fair for us to be compared to rogie and flk. Grey areas be damned. We have gone out of our way to try to work with everyone mentioned. We go out of our way to find films no one has or upgrade titles to never seen before quality. we dont google translate subs, we pay to get them professional translated. When we create our remaster its an original work. the subs are our sweat and tears. we dont take dvd r from the mass of 300 people and sell it back to the mass of 300 people. We are adding to the pool of rares. we are not hiding holding or hoarding these films when others would have. in my opinion rogie you are worst than flk. at least pete removes the tape rolls at least he did something. Lol im joking but im not laughing Rogie you have the means to do what we do and have more resources but do less, you choose to just take and bootleg out of the back of your law office? You have taken an oath to uphold the law no? Anyway it's a moot point to speak ethics with a lawyer there is a special place in hell for you and child abusers. There have been non stop slaps in the face and stabs in the back along the way from many people I considered friends and every time we have to smile and take it and we have. I still consider you friends I just understand what's going on would go on whoever is involved so I don't take any of it personally anymore. There is only about 300 people that are on the Internet looking for rare films. Some of these groups act like they own these 300 people and only they can sell to them. And these are the 300 people we care about. Like Haz is saying there is some romance of 3 kingdom shit going on. Most people dont know what goes on behind the scenes in inboxes and emails if they did they would wonder why we take all the crap from the others. simple answer is we could expose these people for who they are but the fact is no one cares. And i would rather work together and help the 300 People that care about the movies and thats where we keep the focus. What I want to say to those 300 people, I know you guys are smart enough to see and know what's going on if you pay attention. Please be responsible with what's going on. If you help and allow these jerks to stand in the way of more rares being uncovered and transferred and translated. Understand our model is only sustainable if we are not undercut by these people. canton viper was sold at a serious loss. every film we invest in heavily sells at a loss. We understand times are hard and not everyone can afford to spend on films thats why we havent held the release of films up but we are at a point where fans have to support it or we can no longer invest is the more rare titles. so im appealing to those 300 people out there. you dont have to like us just respect what we do and why we do it. i wont appeal to rogie or flk They don't have the capacity to understand what we are trying to do. That's why they choose not to do what we do. But the fact is we are not going to pretend we own the film like red sun and put them in Walmart or anything like that. We simply want to the 300 fans to have access to more films and for the 300 fans to help themselves to do it. When I originally started doing these projects it was not supposed to be a long term thing. We wanted to set up a system where these 300 fans could work together and make DVDs that were unimaginable happen. And it would continue and sustain its self regardless of the work put in we all help each other. But I have learned not many people want to help they would rather take. We have reached out to everyone but people would rather just take. People promise to help you on one hand and stab you with the other. The list is long not just these 2 jokers so I'm not about to start pointing fingers. But I wish rogie would stop trolling Monkeyfist on KFC. I know you two guys have your history but seriously dude.. Just do you.... We will do us. And to those 300 fans... I AM SPARTA! Just joking but seriously these 2 jokers are just trying to get a nut I ain't mad at them wait until we finished finding all the rares we can then do whatever just not now its too soon. I just hope you understand what your standing in the way of flk and rogie.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

People, people.... these rares ain't worth this animosity and mudslinging! rdenn is right... rares ALWAYS cause grief.... apparantly.

It's cool that some people devote their time and money to bring out hidden gems, but all the venom spewing and calling each other out.... it makes the whole fandom scene look like a fucking kindergarten.

I understand some of the points being made here, but maybe people should just realise that EVERY project you put out, will eventually be sold or uploaded by others. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it... so let it go.

[silver hermit]

If 2 or 3 or 4 of my friends start beefing with each other over non-sense I'm a check them. A real friend will check you and call you out, a real friend won't be offended if their friend checks them. That is all....

[HAZ]

I don't know if rares cause grief, but backstabbers do, and the same names keep coming up. There are some people in fandom that are not cool. It's too bad.

[HAZ]

I don't think people realize this, but Roger makes thousands a month selling DVD's. All of those people that Bob described above, people with families, mortgages, medical bills, they don't make what Roger does just selling DVD-r's of Kung fu movies. I don't begrudge him that. Good for him. That's amazing. The houndslow people make nothing. If you want to talk about who's making money on this stuff, its not jamal, flk, houndslow or anyone else. That's straight up facts. Roger's selling hard drives with a terabyte of movies on them for a grand or something, and that's great. If you're doing it like that, got an ebay store with thouands of positive feedback, and are well liked, I don't understand what's the motivation to begrudge these small people the pennies they will make from their projects. Who cares about torrents? Most of what Roger sells is from ADC and he makes thousands off it. It's an amazing business model. I bow down to it. This isn't about projects becoming available for cheap or about torrenting. It's about making a monopoly, and not letting these little guys catch a dime. Roger's store has a feedback on ebay of over 4000 at almost 5.00 a DVD. Plus he has an Ioffer store, plus he sells stuff to people he meets here for straight cash, and sells DVD's in volume. Why not just let these little fish catch their crumbs? That, I don't understand.

And I've met Silver and Roger in real life, and they are both cool.

[bigrogie]

(a) Roger's selling hard drives with a terabyte of movies on them for a grand or something.

( Most of what Roger sells is from ADC

My dear HAZ:

(a) A few years back a guy from UK wanted 700 or 800 movies and asked me if I would put them on HD instead of DVDs, I agreed. Have not sold 1 HD ever since. Where do you see me advertise movies on a HD for a grand or something????

( My collection is close to 11000 DVDs now, About 700 originals, the rest are DVD-Rs. Less than 100 were downloaded from ADC. All the rest was purchased or traded for.

Next time you want to make factual statements like those about me, why not checking the veracity with me first instead of making blatant lies? You have my emails and phone number, I'll be glad to set you straight as to any fact you want to know! I'm very easy to reach. Unlike someone I know, I'm extremely quick to answer my emails or return my calls!

I've been selling movies for almost 8 years, probably more. Nothing new about this. Yourself bought some from me on Ebay and privately.

Why you do you think I sell so many and that people keep coming back year after year after year? Selling cheaper than anyone else is one thing but most importantly people who buy from me get their DVDs shipped in 24 hrs whether they buy 1 or 100 and when a disc is defective it's replaced the next day. When I get an email it's replied to the same day or next day at the latest (even when I'm away on vacation in the South or in Europe). It's the most basic rule of selling: provide a good service and you'll be successful.

I also give a lot of movies for free. How many did you give away for nothing in return? On my part I gave over 1000 movies for free in the last few years and that includes paying for the shipping myself. Many members here can vouch for me on free movies they've got. When you disappeared from the forum for a few months and were not replying to any one here including 2 or 3 members who had not received from you their paid copy of 13 Steps Maki I took the initiative to get in touch with them and send them a free copy. Did I ask you to pay me back? No.

To my dear friend Bob, thank you for replying to Clay «Silver Hermit» on my behalf but it was totally unnecessary.

Frankly, when it comes to ethics and integrity, the opinions and statements of a guy who screwed me by over 80 DVDs years ago on a large trade, after taking 6 months to send me a fraction of the DVDs he owed me (after so many complaints on my part) after receiving mine in less than 10 days, is less valuable to me than the toilet paper I use to clean my ass. He can go on and on with his senseless dissertations, I don't give a damn! Now I just wasted 2 minutes of my life to talk about him and the sad part is that I’ll never get these 2 minutes back.

I'm done with this thread. Wasted enough time already.

[monkeygift]

Thank you all for the inclusions (mostly bad but hey...).

Now can we go back to the main topic? (Which is Phantom Thief btw)

I can't believe we keep up the rant like this, it's useless... Rogie is the Robin Hood of DVD-R and we all have our point of view, so be it. Now, all this doesn't affect that we want to release Phantom Thief, doesn't it?

[bigrogie]

Now can we go back to the main topic? (Which is Phantom Thief btw)

Totally agree.

Hey HAZ, you're a moderator so why don't you just do that and moderate the thread and let it be for what it's about: The possible release of PHANTOM THIEF by the HoundslowTeam.

[HAZ]

And that still doesn't explain why you don't let others get theirs. Sure, you do some nice things, and that great. Why not do another nice thing, and let these smaller collectors alone to do their thing? It's because your a bit of a bully sometimes. You make yours. Why not let them get their crumbs? For all you say, there's not an answer in there.

Silver Hermit's rant was way too wacked out and crazy. I think that this thread has been civil, and it's a black eye on this thread. I don't agree with Roger not giving these small guys a chance, but, hey, it's his choice. I am deleting Silver's comments because Roger doesn't deserve that. I hope that isn't considered censorship.

My dear HAZ:

(a) A few years back a guy from UK wanted 700 or 800 movies and asked me if I would put them on HD instead of DVDs, I agreed. Have not sold 1 HD ever since. Where do you see me advertise movies on a HD for a grand or something????

( My collection is close to 11000 DVDs now, About 700 originals, the rest are DVD-Rs. Less than 100 were downloaded from ADC. All the rest was purchased or traded for.

Next time you want to make factual statements like those about me, why not checking the veracity with me first instead of making blatant lies? You have my emails and phone number, I'll be glad to set you straight as to any fact you want to know! I'm very easy to reach. Unlike someone I know, I'm extremely quick to answer my emails or return my calls!

I've been selling movies for almost 8 years, probably more. Nothing new about this. Yourself bought some from me on Ebay and privately.

Why you do you think I sell so many and that people keep coming back year after year after year? Selling cheaper than anyone else is one thing but most importantly people who buy from me get their DVDs shipped in 24 hrs whether they buy 1 or 100 and when a disc is defective it's replaced the next day. When I get an email it's replied to the same day or next day at the latest (even when I'm away on vacation in the South or in Europe). It's the most basic rule of selling: provide a good service and you'll be successful.

I also give a lot of movies for free. How many did you give away for nothing in return? On my part I gave over 1000 movies for free in the last few years and that includes paying for the shipping myself. Many members here can vouch for me on free movies they've got. When you disappeared from the forum for a few months and were not replying to any one here including 2 or 3 members who had not received from you their paid copy of 13 Steps Maki I took the initiative to get in touch with them and send them a free copy. Did I ask you to pay me back? No.

To my dear friend Bob, thank you for replying to Clay «Silver Hermit» on my behalf but it was totally unnecessary.

Frankly, when it comes to ethics and integrity, the opinions and statements of a guy who screwed me by over 80 DVDs years ago on a large trade, after taking 6 months to send me a fraction of the DVDs he owed me (after so many complaints on my part) after receiving mine in less than 10 days, is less valuable to me than the toilet paper I use to clean my ass. He can go on and on with his senseless dissertations, I don't give a damn! Now I just wasted 2 minutes of my life to talk about him and the sad part is that I’ll never get these 2 minutes back.

I'm done with this thread. Wasted enough time already.

[HAZ]

Totally agree.

Hey HAZ, you're a moderator so why don't you just do that and moderate the thread and let it be for what it's about: The possible release of PHANTOM THIEF by the HoundslowTeam.

I just posted that very thing!

[monkeygift]

We will start counting the # of people who would like to have this in their collection. From there we will be able to evaluate if it's worth releasing or not. If enough fans want Phantom Thief, we will gladly work hard on this and make it available to the fans.

Please write a message in this thread if you want to contribute OR visit our thread on www.houndslowteam.tk (in the "our projects" section).

peace!

[HAZ]

Put me down! I am curious.

[silver hermit]

I guess the 300 rant was a bit much it also seems the satire of the situation and people I call friends acting a fool over all this BS was lost on some... But not all.

[HyperDrive]

Count me in.