Member DiP Posted March 17, 2013 Member Share Posted March 17, 2013 Looking at this board, I'm noticing that most here don't really talk about these kind of fights due to overabundance of wirework and too exaggerated fight choreography. I'm usually not a fan tbh but I recently been watching clips of classic wu xia fight scenes and appreciated some of them for what they are this time around. mphrZoYDAkc w_EwLP3vHrw LekG78kJMG0 What are your personal favorite wu xia fight scenes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member D1 Ma Posted March 17, 2013 Member Share Posted March 17, 2013 I usually hate wire fu, but I actually liked it in 21 Red List, at the ending. That's the only movie where I can tolerate all the exaggerated choreo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 18, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2013 Looking at this board, I'm noticing that most here don't really talk about these kind of fights due to overabundance of wirework and too exaggerated fight choreography. I'm usually not a fan tbh but I recently been watching clips of classic wu xia fight scenes and appreciated some of them for what they are this time around. I've never had a problem with excessive wirework and exaggerated choreography within a wu xia setting....for me it's part and parcel of the world the movies are based in. I still remember watching the first clip of Jet Li from 'Swordsman 2' back when I was very first getting into the HK action movie scene, and staring in wonder at how they did it with the flying sword and the constant close quarter exchanges, I think wirework can be just as creative as anything grounded in my opinion. I usually hate wire fu, but I actually liked it in 21 Red List, at the ending. That's the only movie where I can tolerate all the exaggerated choreo I've been after this movie for a while, do you have any idea where I can get my hands on a copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member xianzai Posted March 18, 2013 Member Share Posted March 18, 2013 Looking at this board, I'm noticing that most here don't really talk about these kind of fights due to overabundance of wirework and too exaggerated fight choreography.That's not a very constructive way to start out. Hopefully all fight scenes in the movies people here watch are fake to some extent. I love good wuxia films and fight scenes. If I wanted reality I wouldn't be watching a movie. You asked about favorite fight scenes. Two recent ones I liked were the "Drizzle vs the monk" and "Magician vs Wheel King" fights in Reign of Assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted March 19, 2013 Member Share Posted March 19, 2013 Looking at this board, I'm noticing that most here don't really talk about these kind of fights due to overabundance of wirework and too exaggerated fight choreography. For me it's all the flailing, it's just a bunch of people throwing their arms about with loose garbs with sword clanging noises, they have nothing of the martial arts or physical prowess of the movies from the 70's and 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted March 19, 2013 Member Share Posted March 19, 2013 For me it's all the flailing, it's just a bunch of people throwing their arms about with loose garbs with sword clanging noises, they have nothing of the martial arts or physical prowess of the movies from the 70's and 80's. I second that. I want to see some fu!...not some fool flying through the air. That being said, CTHD stands out to me as having the best wuxia fight scenes seeing as it has some grounded fighting along with wuxia fantastical elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted March 19, 2013 Member Share Posted March 19, 2013 I love wire work. I just don't like it when modern films use it to needlessly exaggerate regular choreography. In a wu xia setting wire work is fantastic. I think one of my favourites - and an all time classic - is the final fight in "Duel to the Death." It's actually not my favourite fight of the film but, wu xia wise, it's incredible: great sword work, violence, airborne combat and honour. Fantastic stuff. I wish I actually had more wu xia films in my collection but it seems a pretty tough sub genre to dive into due to the sheer volume of titles available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 19, 2013 For me it's all the flailing, it's just a bunch of people throwing their arms about with loose garbs with sword clanging noises, they have nothing of the martial arts or physical prowess of the movies from the 70's and 80's. I second that. I want to see some fu!...not some fool flying through the air. I'll jump on the pro-wu xia bandwagon as well and say I have to disagree with the above comments. I love a good kung-fu movie, but the mentality of saying it's just a bunch of flailing is the equivalent of watching a heroic bloodshed movie and then saying "It was just a bunch of guys waving guns around, where was the kung-fu?". A wu-xia movie isn't even about kung-fu, so I'm not sure why somebody would be watching one for that reason. The only valid reasoning I can think of is that the wu-xia world usually involves very acrobatic and graceful swordplay exchanges, so the type of performers who are capable of pulling off that level of physicality usually have a wushu or Peking Opera background, so hence people like Jet Li, Donnie Yen, & Yuen Biao. If you watched the movie based on one of those guys being in it and weren't aware of what a different genre wu-xia is, basically melodramas with swords, then fair enough you'd end up disappointed. But the whole world of wu-xia is very poetic and chivalrous, and this is reflected in the style of choreography found in these movies, it's all about greatly exaggerated movements and the gracefulness of the exchanges, almost like a dance. To just pass it off as flailing with no level of skill, choreography, or physical prowess behind it is a little bit of a short sighted statement in my opinion. If you want to see pointless flailing there are plenty of low budget bashers from the 70s, the very era which has been referenced, that fall into that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member xianzai Posted March 19, 2013 Member Share Posted March 19, 2013 A wu-xia movie isn't even about kung-fu, so I'm not sure why somebody would be watching one for that reason.This is the best way to look at it. There might be fighting of various kinds, but in no way is it a real-world martial arts instruction manual in movie form. All those folks waving their arms around? They're using inner power. --- I wish I actually had more wu xia films in my collection but it seems a pretty tough sub genre to dive into due to the sheer volume of titles available. If you're into Shaw Brothers, try the early Chu Yuan wuxia films. If you want to try a TV series, Handsome Siblings has some great performances. The recent movies Reign of Assassins and Wu Xia are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 A wu-xia movie isn't even about kung-fu, so I'm not sure why somebody would be watching one for that reason. Then the studios should stop advertizing them as such. To just pass it off as flailing with no level of skill, choreography, or physical prowess behind it is a little bit of a short sighted statement in my opinion. If you want to see pointless flailing there are plenty of low budget bashers from the 70s, the very era which has been referenced, that fall into that category. I am duly chastised. My apologies. (I don't care for bashers either though. They have more flailing than a wuxia pic.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted March 20, 2013 Author Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 For me it's all the flailing, it's just a bunch of people throwing their arms about with loose garbs with sword clanging noises There's exceptions though. Jet vs Donnie in Hero featured shots of clean and eye-catching movements in the choreography. And Donnie broke the tradition of 1980s/1990s wu xia fight choreography with The Lost Bladesman basing the fight choreography on the classics and then transcending them in grounded and realistic (for wu xia standards) form with the usage of Chinese weapons. It's an astonishing accomplishment in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 20, 2013 Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2013 Then the studios should stop advertizing them as such. Hey ShaOW!linDude, I don't think a studio has ever really tried to advertise a wu-xia movie as a kung-fu extravaganza....the blame for this in my opinion lies purely with the American distributors who buy the rights to these movies, then throw the word 'kung-fu' all over the packaging because, well, they know that 'melodrama with swords' probably wouldn't sell as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 Probably my least favorite style of HK choreo, aside from bashers. At least the new wave 90's style. Unless they keep it somewhat grounded like in Moon Warriors, which I love. Don't mind it so much in early 80's efforts like Duel to the Death or Bastard Swordsman for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 If you watched the movie based on one of those guys being in it and weren't aware of what a different genre wu-xia is, basically melodramas with swords, then fair enough you'd end up disappointed. But the whole world of wu-xia is very poetic and chivalrous, and this is reflected in the style of choreography found in these movies, it's all about greatly exaggerated movements and the gracefulness of the exchanges, almost like a dance. To just pass it off as flailing with no level of skill, choreography, or physical prowess behind it is a little bit of a short sighted statement in my opinion. If you want to see pointless flailing there are plenty of low budget bashers from the 70s, the very era which has been referenced, that fall into that category. I was basing my comment on the videos in the op, I've seen all three of those movies and many similar movies from the 90's and sure there are exceptions but I'll hold to my opinion that it is just a bunch of flailing about, Jet Li may be talented but to me it can be anyone twirling about in those clips with random clanging noises. Also the acting and editing in a lot of the 90's wuxia are just a total mess. 70's Bashers were more grounded and hard hitting, and in all reality more like what fights are like in real life, violent and sloppy. I feel the old Shaw wuxia had more of a balance, or take the movie The Sword, although sometimes convoluted, they had better choreo(wire work and hand to hand), acting and production values. I get a headache trying to sit through most 90's wuxia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 There's exceptions though. Jet vs Donnie in Hero featured shots of clean and eye-catching movements in the choreography. And Donnie broke the tradition of 1980s/1990s wu xia fight choreography with The Lost Bladesman basing the fight choreography on the classics and then transcending them in grounded and realistic (for wu xia standards) form with the usage of Chinese weapons. It's an astonishing accomplishment in my book. Well your getting out of the dark ages er the 90's, CTHD and Hero had more of a semblance of the older wuxias where there was wire work, but still good interaction with the weapon work. Now if they'd just quit doing that flying sword twirling move they put in every movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 To be honest, I think the popularity or shall we say exposure of the wuxia wire fu style in the 90's and early 00's sort of distorted if not tainted the image of HK action films in the west to some degree. I know many people who refers to it as "those asian movies where they can fly" which just irks me to no end. They essentially dismiss half a century of films in all genres as "flying asian" movies and I can't be bothered to give a lecture on the rich and varied history of HK cinema every time this happens, so in that regard, I feel the wuxia wire fu films did a remarkable, if unintended, disservice to HK cinema as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted March 20, 2013 Author Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 Well your getting out of the dark ages er the 90's, CTHD and Hero had more of a semblance of the older wuxias where there was wire work, but still good interaction with the weapon work. Now if they'd just quit doing that flying sword twirling move they put in every movie! Well, this thread is about fight scenes belonging in the sub-genre in general and not just the ones with wirework and sword flailing. I don't intend to just touch on the most famous or typical movies or fight scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm not sure how anyone can watch films like "The Sword" and say they hate all wuxia films. Ok, so you might not like the majority of wire work but, in my opinion, some wuxia films have amazing examples of choreography. Specifically weapons choreography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member xianzai Posted March 21, 2013 Member Share Posted March 21, 2013 To be honest, I think the popularity or shall we say exposure of the wuxia wire fu style in the 90's and early 00's sort of distorted if not tainted the image of HK action films in the west to some degree. I know many people who refers to it as "those asian movies where they can fly" which just irks me to no end.Foreign cinema of all countries tends to be known by the masses by its more extreme or different elements. Indian films are "those movies where people dance", Japanese films are "those movies with the tentacles and giant robots and monsters". I think a strong case could be made that there are more wuxia movies from HK/China than what kung fu purists would consider real kung fu movies, so "flying people movies" is probably a good summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bdc Posted March 21, 2013 Member Share Posted March 21, 2013 Personally I love the late 80's/90's wuxia films. They're of course not kung fu films but "world of the martial arts" fantasy films. Here's some fight scenes from lesser known films: Hiw0TdfgIAw HmrfDH0FnAU ZlU5dhWUGDw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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