Member Betty Pei Ti Posted March 10, 2013 Member Share Posted March 10, 2013 Today I asked one of the representatives from T.V.P. (The Vengeance Pack) which BDs they have released until today and which BDs they plan to release in the future etc. And this is what he answered me: Already released ? New One-Armed Swordsman (Schwert des gelben Tigers) EDIT: Released in the meantime, too: Shaolin Avengers (Shaolin - Die Rache mit der Todeshand) The Savage Five (Die Wilden Fuenf) Five Shaolin Masters (Die gnadenlosen Fuenf) Disciples of Shaolin (Karato - Sein Haertester Schlag) Crippled Avengers (Vier gnadenlose Raecher) Seven Man Army (Die unschlagbaren Sieben) English subtitles ? Yes, all of them! English dubs ? Schwert des gelben Tigers Rache mit der Todeshand Die Wilden 5 Die gnadenlosen 5 When ? The official release date of Die wilden Fünf/The Savage Five (media book) is the 15th of August. The official release date of Five Shaolin Masters /Die gnadenlosen Fuenf (media book) is the 30th of August. The estimated release date of Disciples of Shaolin (Karato - Sein Haertester Schlag) and Crippled Avengers (Vier gnadenlose Raecher) media books will be October. The estimated release date of Seven Man Army (Die unschlagbaren Sieben) will be the end of December. Bonus to Shaolin Avengers media book ? * Elegant Trails: Alexander Fu Sheng (with German subtitles) * 3 Styles of Hung Fist 1+2 * Obituary on Alexander Fu Sheng * Alternative ending (from the German videocassette) * Advertising material * Original Hong Kong trailer * New Hong Kong trailer * German movie trailer * TVP trailers * Booklet (16 pages) with pictures and information about the movie Audio: German, English Dolby Digital 2.0, Mandarin Subs: English Video format: 1080p/24p Running time: 97 minutes ----- Bonus to Die wilden Fünf/The Savage Five media book ? * Booklet (16 pages) with pictures and information about the movie * Old German dubbing (you can choose between post scoring or subtitles as for the once missing pieces) * The Master Chang Cheh (documentary with German subtitles) * Elegant Trails: David Chiang and Ti Lung * German movie trailer * Original trailer * New trailer * Music video of The Savage Five * Opening credits of the German videocassette * Advertising material Audio: German, English Dolby Digital 2.0, Mandarin Subs: English Video format: 1080p/24p Running time: 95 minutes ---- Bonus to Five Shaolin Masters/Die gnadenlosen Fuenf (media book): * Booklet (16 pages) with pictures and information about the movie * Old German dubbing (you can choose between post scoring or subtitles as for the once missing pieces) * The Master Chang Cheh (documentary with German subtitles) * Elegant Trails: David Chiang, Ti Lung and Fu Sheng * German movie trailer * Original trailer * New trailer * Music video of the Five Heroes * Music video of the Five Villains * Opening credits of the German videocassette * Advertising material Audio: German, English Dolby Digital 2.0, Mandarin Subs: English Video format: 1080p/24p Running time: 109 minutes ------------------------ Bonus to Crippled Avengers/Vier gnadenlose Rächer (media book) * Booklet (16 pages) with pictures and information about the movie * The Master Chang Cheh (documentary with German subtitles) * An interview with Lo Meng * Original HK trailer * New HK trailer * Advertising material Audio/Subtitles: German Dolby Digital 2.0 (with subtitles or post dubbing), Mandarin Dolby Digital 2.0 (English subtitles) Running time: 104 minutes ------ Bonus to Disciples of Shaolin/Karato- Sein Haertester Schlag (media book) * Booklet (16 pages) with pictures and information about the movie * The Master Chang Cheh (documentary with German subtitles) * Elegant Trails: Fu Sheng * Original HK trailer * New HK trailer * German movie trailer * Obituary on Alexander Fu Sheng * Opening credits of the German videocassette * music video 'Requiem' * Advertising material Audio/Subtitles: German Dolby Digital 2.0 (with subtitles or post dubbing), Mandarin Dolby Digital 2.0 (English subtitles) Running time: 107 minutes Order of the other releases ? Disciples of Shaolin/Karato- Sein Haertester Schlag), Crippled Avengers/Vier gnadenlose Rächer, Seven Man Army/Die unschlagbaren 7 All in course of this year (2013)! Homepage from T.V.P.: http://www.kinofilm-online-datenbank.de/T.V.P.%20-%20The%20Vengeance%20Pack/index.html EDIT: I add some pictures of their first release. Many thanks to user Monk Sante! Here are some pics. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted March 11, 2013 Member Share Posted March 11, 2013 Fantastic news. Thanks for the inside scoop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I would've bought 5/7 had the prices been reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Betty Pei Ti Posted March 11, 2013 Author Member Share Posted March 11, 2013 @odioustrident, you're welcome! @Markgway, amazon.de http://www.amazon.de/Das-Schwert-gelben-Tigers-Blu-ray/dp/B009Y4408G is much more expensive that other distributors, like the following one: http://www.cyber-pirates.org/index.php?sid=3d4dad611781d8f401567b2286940516&cl=details&cnid=&anid=7942250895c9e366540.15700696 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sheng Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would've bought 5/7 had the prices been reasonable. Like it or not, these prices probably are reasonable! The market for niche product like this is small, apparently considerably smaller as a lotta R1 and R2 distributors that licensed product from Celestial ever imagined. If you take the exquisite packaging and the attention to detail of this (so far) only release (NEW ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN) into account, I would argue that the sales price is actually carefully calculated and also somehow justifiable. No idea what TVP shelled out for licensing, but I’m sure that if they’d “only” offer a decent transfer job plus cheap-ass artwork for their fairly common (i.e. well-known) Shaw titles a lotta potentially interested people would simply wait until they can get hold of a download link or a “trade” with another stingy mu’fucka, sorry, film buff. The company apparently has a reason to believe that these BD editions are only commercially viable if they first & foremost target serious film collectors, knowing full well that this type of clientele finds it less hard to dig a lil’ deeper into their pockets if you offer them a unique presentation (media book, rare lobby card reproductions, etc) that can’t simply be duplicated... along with the obligatory quality transfer. Moan if you want, but as screwed up as the market for this type of product is right now probably the only way to go. And finally you should take note of the fact that even budget-oriented suppliers like DDD House had to price the batch of recent barebone HK-made Shaw BD’s (the three ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN instalments) at 210 HKD each. That’s already about 75 percent of the amount I payed for my first TVP Blu Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 @Markgway, amazon.de http://www.amazon.de/Das-Schwert-gelben-Tigers-Blu-ray/dp/B009Y4408G is much more expensive that other distributors, like the following one: http://www.cyber-pirates.org/index.php?sid=3d4dad611781d8f401567b2286940516&cl=details&cnid=&anid=7942250895c9e366540.15700696 €37,99 = £33.21 and that's not including postage! Yes, €27,99 is obvious better, but £24.47 (again without postage) is still ridiculously high for a single movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Like it or not, these prices probably are reasonable! The market for niche product like this is small, apparently considerably smaller as a lotta R1 and R2 distributors that licensed product from Celestial ever imagined. Which is why the rights to German speaking territories would cost a lot less than American rights. The retail prices aren't reasonable by any stretch of the word. To buy all seven of those announced titles on BD would cost roughly €265,93, going by Amazon's average price. That's SEVEN films. What if they had the rights to SEVENTY? Shaws made hundreds of martial arts movies. These prices are only reasonable to two kinds of fans. 1. Fans with significant cash flow. 2. Fans who struggle but are so obsessive as to fork out money they really can't afford. What about the rest of us? If you take the exquisite packaging and the attention to detail of this (so far) only release (NEW ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN) into account, I would argue that the sales price is actually carefully calculated and also somehow justifiable. Maybe I'm alone on this but 'exquisite packaging' does not justify an item costing roughly THREE times what it should. I'd be perfectly happy with a standard BLU case and no extras if it meant a €13 purchase. No idea what TVP shelled out for licensing, but I’m sure that if they’d “only” offer a decent transfer job plus cheap-ass artwork for their fairly common (i.e. well-known) Shaw titles a lotta potentially interested people would simply wait until they can get hold of a download link or a “trade” with another stingy mu’fucka, sorry, film buff. Well, ironic as it may seem, their pricing has put me in that position. I'd rather buy an original, I just can't afford it. A copy will have to do for now. How many more would they sell at a cheaper cost? How many fans (like me) have been put off by the cost? As for the transfers, these were done by Celestial. All TVP needs to do is NOT fuck them up! The company apparently has a reason...Moan if you want, but as screwed up as the market for this type of product is right now probably the only way to go. Isn't that really sad? These movies were made for a mass audience. Not a bunch of flash elitists who jack off over special packaging and secretly enjoy the fact that others don't own it. And finally you should take note of the fact that even budget-oriented suppliers like DDD House had to price the batch of recent barebone HK-made Shaw BD’s (the three ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN instalments) at 210 HKD each. That’s already about 75 percent of the amount I payed for my first TVP Blu Ray. Those are also grossly overpriced. I bet sales have been very poor and then the companies will turn around and say 'oh, no one is interested, we won't bother with any more'. Let's put out some shitty VCDs instead. People in HK don't buy VCDs because they're a class act, they buy them because they're cheap. The cheaper they are, the more you sell. Basic economics. I doubt we'll see even those seven TVP titles, let alone more. I'm sure sales will be too low to justify them. I know Shaw titles are a niche product, but you don't maximise sales with high retail points. £15 is the most I've ever paid for a BD (it was a one-off) and I know many who think I pay over the odds for it. Feel free everyone to disagree........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andi81 Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 The TVP Blu Ray was quite pricey, but imo it's the definitive edition of the THE ONE-ARMED SWORDSMAN...there won't be any upcoming release of that film which could lead me into temptation... I really hope that they'll manage to release the other six mediabooks... I own at least 30 films (DVDs and Blu Rays) with prices over 20euro and of course not every release was worth the money, but the TVP Blu Ray definitely is... Right now, i'm thinking about ordering Criterion's Blu Ray of Fincher's THE GAME and this will cost me 24euro...of course it is too much for one film, but i don't want to buy a lower quality version for 12euro and still feel tempted to buy the criterion disc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 Got a ton of dvds, not even blu rays that I paid well over 20 euros for! Do I like paying that much, no.... but if that's the price, then that's the price. As a collector of more rare genres, I expect to shell out more dough than what you would on your average mainstream flick. Mark, if you don't wanna pay that kind of money, then don't... simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member spannick Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 Germany is the biggest market for Mediabook-Ripoffs, and many many words from guys who can't afford it won't change a thing. they SELL. no idea why, but they do. so it's just take it or leave it. i never saw any Mediabook from the high-price-labels in Germany fall in price. no matter what crap movie it was. and yes, ordering a HD-Master from Celestial costs extra. you don't get them for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sheng Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 @ Markgway Oh dear... I understand that you stick to the iron principle not to pay more than 15 quid for a Blu. Fine. Just don’t twist economic realities to an utterly absurd point where they fit with your “don’t pay more than x-amount for a disc” credo. Just to pick up on three of your objections... These movies were made for a mass audience. These movies were once made for a mass audience, primarily in Asia, yes. In 1968 or 1976 or as long as Shaw was active in film production. But they are apparently irrelevant to a mass audience now, especially in the West. Even at the best of times its never been more than a niche market. Sales by R1 and R2 companies were uniformly disastrous. Bey Logan mentioned to me that hardly any Shaw disc that Dragon Dynasty put out met their sales expectation. So we saw the inevitable scaling down over the years. First they scrapped all the wonderful extras (and got rid of Bey!), then they put out bare-bone discs at very low prices, when that didn’t do they outsourced a batch of titles, then.... well, nada. Now we see that a lot of the Shaw titles that were licensed to US companies during the initial binge (i.e. after Celestial offered the restored Shaw prints) are not even released any more. Game over, don’t you get it? Why did it get to this point? Because of the inclusion of “wrong” audio tracks? Or missing mono ones? PAL/NTSC conversion problems, framecuts or any other (primarily) purist gripes...? Bollocks! Over the years all these companies simply learned to accept economic realities, namely that the costs for licensing, manufacturing and promotion could not be recouped because the vast majority of Shaw titles simply do not have any appeal to a wider audience today. So in stepped micro companies catering strictly for the collector’s end of the market. Its as simple as that. How many more would they sell at a cheaper cost? How many fans (like me) have been put off by the cost? Well, I guess companies like TVP did their math. The German company that released Shaw titles before them was MiB. Yes, their artwork was indescribably shabby, the German dubs were not the old, theatrical ones (those so revered by German ol’ school fans in other words), but the discs were dirt-cheap and were placed at high visibility spots in a lot of those huge electrical appliance mainstream stores where DVD’s are primarily sold these days. Apparently that didn’t help ‘em to break even with their Shaw line. Despite endless and sometimes almost tearful pleas on German internet fan forums to continue licensing a new package of Shaw titles (and get hold of the ‘original’ dubs) MiB bowed out. No “the cheaper they are, the more you sell” effect here, Sir. Not a bunch of flash elitists who jack off over special packaging and secretly enjoy the fact that others don't own it. Ah, the “flash elitists”, here we go.... All I can say is that your definition of a collector is a woefully undifferentiated, trite and scornful one, Mark. I happen to think that any collector who puts all his efforts, his heart and his oftentimes scarce funds into acquiring a unique collection “that others don’t own” deserves at least a modicum of respect. The endeavour is almost always at the expense of something else. Not many music, film or book collectors that I ever met were wallowing in money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 Well said, Sheng.... None of us here are millionaires, or flash elitists.... at least I think not. A hobby is about priority. You can't really blame the companies for the fact that you can't or won't afford their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 The problem is a lot of people want the perfect transfer, with tons of extras etc but are not willing to pay for it! When i collected Laserdiscs years ago the average price here in the UK was £25 +....i did not mind paying for it because it was the best at the time. No, i do not have a lot of money to spare and i did not then but was selective in what i bought. I did not buy the German NOAS blu ray because i already had the HK one. I will definitely buy the next German releases because i love these films and you probably will not get them released anywhere else, especially in the current financial climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted March 12, 2013 Member Share Posted March 12, 2013 Everything you said is likely spot on Sheng... but I do associate a strong focus on packaging with the "wrong" type of collector who values comparison of themselves to others more than the film itself. It has very little to do with financial status... something much more primal than that. This is a known trend in the VHS scene today. "Flash elitists" is an awesome term I'd like to appropriate for future use. That doesn't mean a distributor who goes all out on design is catering to this group; they have a tiny niche market and want to justify the price to the average fan. Maybe printing accoutrements was an affordable way to add supposed value. I think this genre could appeal to a wide audience with the right advertising (in the right places) and the right presentation. A scene is only "dead" until someone makes it cool again. A thread brainstorming on how we might do that would be a good idea. People move in herds when it comes to genre popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Like I said, feel free to disagree... and you all did! I wasn't specifically trying to slag off anyone here. It just saddens me that film collecting is more about the 'collecting' now and less about the film, it seems. Like Spannick said, put shit in a tin and someone will buy it for the tin. As someone who doesn't care for deluxe editions and just wants a good edition of the film, who's catering to my needs? Why does it have to be all or nothing? I've always say that I'm thrilled that Criterion very rarely release the kind of movies that interest me. I checked the TVP specs and the only real extras are a couple of interviews. Doesn't look as though any effort was put it. Forget about me... don't you guys expect more for your money? I don't think my expectations are unreasonable, really. £15 for one film is more than enough. If TVP announced a further 100 titles tomorrow would you buy them all? As a collector wouldn't you be compelled to? Laserdiscs were a joke, and although no collector would ever admit it, they got fleeced by prestige. I used to be more like you guys, but I changed, and began to realise when you've got bills to pay you need to prioritise your spending. I'd love to be in a position to click the order button for all those TVP titles, but as it stands that would be irresponsible of me. I can't afford a Big Mac, so why can't they at least offer me a Cheeseburger? On a side note: Are Celestial still charging outrageous prices for their masters? Even though almost every company who had dealt with them appears to have lost money? Is TVP's overpaying for uncommercial product being filtered down to the consumer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted March 13, 2013 Member Share Posted March 13, 2013 I admit I overpay on Criterion and Twilight Time (now there are some sneaky gits) but it's astonishing how cheap a lot of Blu-rays are. I just paid £12 for Master Of Cinema's release of The Passion Of Joan Of Arc, and for that price you get three different versions of the film, and a 100 page book! I think the Shaw stuff came too late in the US, but Celestial messed things up by initially offering only the LOT. You couldn't take King Boxer and Five Venoms without also taking all the musicals, all the dramas, etc. Even when it was sorted, you have to take packages. That's why everyone and their dog seems to have released garbage like Lion Vs Lion over and over again, in order to get the goodies. Dragon Dynasty picked up a ton of Shaws, many of which are not likely to see R1 releases. Had US companies released the main Shaws in 2004, on the back of Kill Bill, I suspect they would have turned a profit. Animego seemed to benefit from this. I wouldn't be surprised if the HK companies charged a fortune for them. This is why I'm annoyed the inital IVL releases didn't go for proper NTSC or proper PAL, or include the mono tracks. GET IT RIGHT FIRST TIME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member bobo Posted March 13, 2013 Member Share Posted March 13, 2013 i always said right from the beginning that i would have been more than satisfied with just the movie release with the option of either mandarin and original english dub. they should have and could have released every single title by now---but no, everything had to be perfect and delayed almost all the titles---now unless a miracle happens that's it for the north american market. it peeves me off that shaws are being released or shown all over the world except here ! i bought the TVP versions of NEW ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN and THE SAVAGE FIVE to replace the old VHS to DVD-R fullscreen versions that i had. still hoping that someone will come up with copies of the english dubbed shaws that are showing on african cable tv(FLYING DAGGER--BLOODY ESCAPE--VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE--DEADLY KNIVES etc). so what happens to the rest of the titles that dragon dynasty and media blasters have ? the search for lost dub shaws has for the moment come to a grinding halt. the last one i came across was THE DRAGON MISSILE---disappointed but i never say never---always seems that just when things look hopeless something happens--remember virtually everyone had given up on seeing a remastered version of TO KILL A MASTERMIND ,and then suddenly it was there. i check and recheck all my sources every couple of days--you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member RogueWarrior Posted March 13, 2013 Member Share Posted March 13, 2013 i always said right from the beginning that i would have been more than satisfied with just the movie release with the option of either mandarin and original english dub. they should have and could have released every single title by now---but no, everything had to be perfect and delayed almost all the titles---now unless a miracle happens that's it for the north american market. it peeves me off that shaws are being released or shown all over the world except here ! i bought the TVP versions of NEW ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN and THE SAVAGE FIVE to replace the old VHS to DVD-R fullscreen versions that i had. still hoping that someone will come up with copies of the english dubbed shaws that are showing on african cable tv(FLYING DAGGER--BLOODY ESCAPE--VENGEANCE IS A GOLDEN BLADE--DEADLY KNIVES etc). so what happens to the rest of the titles that dragon dynasty and media blasters have ? the search for lost dub shaws has for the moment come to a grinding halt. the last one i came across was THE DRAGON MISSILE---disappointed but i never say never---always seems that just when things look hopeless something happens--remember virtually everyone had given up on seeing a remastered version of TO KILL A MASTERMIND ,and then suddenly it was there. i check and recheck all my sources every couple of days--you never know. Ahhh, the dub for THE DRAGON MISSILE. I know it well. Hehhehhee. Yea, I am still on the lookout for the african cable tv dubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cloud Hands Posted March 14, 2013 Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 remember virtually everyone had given up on seeing a remastered version of TO KILL A MASTERMIND ,and then suddenly it was there. i check and recheck all my sources every couple of days--you never know. I didn't know a remastered version of TKAM was available, where did you get this, if you don't mind me asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted March 14, 2013 Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 I didn't know a remastered version of TKAM was available, where did you get this, if you don't mind me asking? Ripped from the ZiiEagle. Not perfect but best copy out there. Its on ADC and in the traders circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member RogueWarrior Posted March 14, 2013 Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 Ripped from the ZiiEagle. Not perfect but best copy out there. Its on ADC and in the traders circle. HA! I was the one to purchase the bootleg of TKAM and then liberated it on ADC!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cloud Hands Posted March 14, 2013 Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 Thanks Teako. When I heard the Remaster word I got excited. I'll check it out. This + Thunderclap I'd love to get hold of decent releases. Whats the quality like? I've seen the version on youtube, and doesnt look a great deal better than the VHS I had of it back in the 90s bought from Flash Legs. Sorry to de-rail the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted March 14, 2013 Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 Quality can be subjective. I would say on par with a VCD. Not as good as an IVL but best there is out there currently. Blacks were a little murky if I recall right. Definitely better than a VHS rip or anything for sale prior to 2012. I haven't seen the version of TKAM (or Thunderclap) on ADC. I got mine from someone who had the box, however I assume its the same version/ quality. I wouldn't buy it from anyone though. Like I said, its in the traders circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cloud Hands Posted March 18, 2013 Member Share Posted March 18, 2013 I checked out TKAM, and it's decent compared to what I'd seen before. Now THERE'S a film I'd pay good money for on Blu ray. Going back to the original topic, it is a good thing that these are coming out. I actually don't own a bluray player.. a multi region one looks to be fairly expensive, I'm saving and hopefully in the next few months. Having said that, these German films are expensive, so I will pick and chose based on my budget. I can still remember paying up to £20 for truely awful quality VHS back in the day, but it was the only way to get these films.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tex Killer Posted March 20, 2013 Member Share Posted March 20, 2013 €37,99 = £33.21 and that's not including postage! Yes, €27,99 is obvious better, but £24.47 (again without postage) is still ridiculously high for a single movie. Not ridiculously high if you need it.I met dilemma when had chance to purchase lady professional. 74€ for one movie:cry:. I consulted my friend who has huge addiction for collecting movies, coins and comics. He said roughly like this" you either collect those movies or not. There is no point getting items only easily available/cheap but leave out more rare/expensive ones". So I forked out money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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