Member Youal Posted December 7, 2012 Member Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have a question and I want to get your thoughts. When I think of Chinese films, I don't consider Hong Kong films the same films made in mainland China. The films that were produced in Hong Kong has a distinct flavor, not just the language but content-wise. There is a liberal approach to tell a story without sugarcoating or downplaying certain themes or content. A good example is Infernal Affairs with the two different endings. In the Hong Kong version, Andy Lau gets away from being expose as criminal while in the China version, hes taken into police custody. When SPL was release, the scene with the fallen death of Donnie Yen was removed for mainland China version. Ever since Hong Kong merged with China, the director must complied with the strict rules of State Administration of Radio, Film, and Television (SARFT) to tapped into the larger market. Therefore, the heroes must be noble and chivalry in character and the antagonists always doesn't get away with crimes. Some subject matters are prohibited ie sex, drugs, acts of violence. The kind of Hong Kong films that I once enjoyed from past, especially in the 80's & 90's would probably never get made in the current climate unless its only release in its local territory. I feel the rules hinder the Hong Kong directors' true intention and forcing them to compromised their creative vision or "sell out". I'm really looking forward to seeing Special Identity because it seems to harken back to the girtty stuff typical of modern Hong Kong gangster films. However, I 'm worry that there might be some controversy over the material and it will be forced to get water-downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted December 7, 2012 Member Share Posted December 7, 2012 The handover killed the "hong kong movie" no doubt. I curse the day china took over. Im sure plenty of hk chinese are happy to be united with the mainland and free from british rule, but I don't really care. It comes at the expense of my movie viewing pleasure, which is my main concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted December 7, 2012 Member Share Posted December 7, 2012 The handover killed the "hong kong movie" no doubt. I curse the day china took over. Im sure plenty of hk chinese are happy to be united with the mainland and free from british rule, but I don't really care. It comes at the expense of my movie viewing pleasure, which is my main concern. So many HKers were fearful of Mainland Chinese rule (how many moved pre-97). I'm sure most would not want to live by mainland rules in their everyday life. Interesting article below: 6 Key Lessons From SARFT’s Foreign Film Blackout I also read (David Bordwell's book) that China will not screen multi-versions anymore. Meaning if you make one version for HK and one for China they will not screen that film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Youal Posted December 7, 2012 Author Member Share Posted December 7, 2012 I heard Johnnie To ran into creative problems with the censorship board in China and it appears Ringo Lam stop making films because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member sifu iron perm Posted December 8, 2012 Member Share Posted December 8, 2012 yeah death to cat 3 films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted December 8, 2012 Member Share Posted December 8, 2012 Greeeaaat.... wrote a loooooong ass post (using my phone) and then the net connection died.... Son of a..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted December 8, 2012 Member Share Posted December 8, 2012 Greeeaaat.... wrote a loooooong ass post (using my phone) and then the net connection died.... Son of a..... You crazy kids and your new techie devices. Ap this, Ap that. Smart this, Smart that. I carve all my posts on a stone tablet before posting them. Never lost one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted December 8, 2012 Member Share Posted December 8, 2012 I also read (David Bordwell's book) that China will not screen multi-versions anymore. Meaning if you make one version for HK and one for China they will not screen that film. Here I was having a bit of faith on the Chinese censorship loosening up more (from what I've read) and now this... Hong Kong is getting more screwed for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted December 8, 2012 Member Share Posted December 8, 2012 There was a serious drop in what I consider entertainment value around '94 and 95' for a host of reasons that had little to do with the Mainland. It might be a blanket statement... but I delineate HK film fans into two groups: those like the Young and Dangerous films and those who don't like what they represent. The takeover was a final-nail-in-the-coffin thing IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted December 9, 2012 Member Share Posted December 9, 2012 I don't think it's just because China but I'm sure that had a huge impact on the films being made after 1997 and perhaps even in the buildup, as movie makers didn't want to be the wrong side of China when the handover happened. but you also have to look at how in the decline of Hong Kong action cinema how China has opened up its borders to Hollywood and the influence Hollywood has on Hong Kong cinema. Eastern audiences obviously seemed to enjoy more Hollywood style movies hence Hong Kong's departure from its biggest strengths. It's sad really there's probably a whole generation of youngsters in Asia completely unaware , I suppose just like the current generation in the West, how good action can be and was produced in their own backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted December 9, 2012 Member Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hong Kong action movies can't be attributed for the decline of Hong Kong cinema alone. The action genre was indeed very successful in its' heyday but so were other genres in theirs (crime, drama, comedy, thrillers etc). It's just one factor out of several. Overall, what contributed to Hong Kong film industry declining is less amount of productions due to investors and producers not taking enough risks and chances, bootlegging, lack of experienced talent. But above all, it's Hong Kong talents relocating to Mainland China and adapting to the new environment and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted December 10, 2012 Member Share Posted December 10, 2012 ... It's sad really there's probably a whole generation of youngsters in Asia completely unaware , I suppose just like the current generation in the West, how good action can be and was produced in their own backyard. This can be seen time and time again everywhere. It is sad and unfortunate, but normal behavior. How many times have you talked to a younger person or overhead a movie conversation and someone states that a film is old (seriously yesterday I overheard someone saying that Training Day was "a great old day cop film.") That is why I try to lend what I think of as important films as much as possible. Try to change the misconceptions that youth have on the past (and some carry that to their adulthood, for example people who think that music and movies started when they were teenagers). Hong Kong action movies can't be attributed for the decline of Hong Kong cinema alone. The action genre was indeed very successful in its' heyday but so were other genres in theirs (crime, drama, comedy, thrillers etc). It's just one factor out of several. Overall, what contributed to Hong Kong film industry declining is less amount of productions due to investors and producers not taking enough risks and chances, bootlegging, lack of experienced talent. But above all, it's Hong Kong talents relocating to Mainland China and adapting to the new environment and rules. Good post here because there are usually a variety of factors when things like this happen. I would also add the economic crisis which started in 1997 combined with the ongoing "regional crisis" where regional sales had been shrinking for several years. This was a combination of being hurt by Hollywood sales, less sales in Taiwan and a variety of other countries, probably a fear of what might happen with HK by China and what you mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted December 10, 2012 Member Share Posted December 10, 2012 Another partial reason for the change in taste is HK's move from a manufacturing economy to a service one in the 80's. Physical comedy and lowest common denominator entertainment have always been the choice of a strong labor class (see America in the 20's). Once people became more educated - their taste in film was expected to "develop." Directors started emulating more Western approaches to filmmaking as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted December 10, 2012 Member Share Posted December 10, 2012 Another partial reason for the change in taste is HK's move from a manufacturing economy to a service one in the 80's. Physical comedy and lowest common denominator entertainment have always been the choice of a strong labor class (see America in the 20's). Once people became more educated - their taste in film was expected to "develop." Directors started emulating more Western approaches to filmmaking as a result. Interesting thesis, though with the last statement: Who emulated golden Hollywood in terms of production (and distribution) style more than the Shaw Brothers? The western influence had been around much longer than the 1980s (and technically even longer than the Shaw Brothers had been in HK). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted December 10, 2012 Member Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm really talking about directorial and screenwriting choices... but definitely camera work too. I'm sure Western influence has existed in HK film for a long time, but this was often a straightforward approach in recreating genre aesthetics and little else. 90's HK directors stopped embracing "genre" and become more experimental / individualistic across the board, something I consider "Western" if you look at World Cinema on the whole. They also borrowed Western tropes / themes in a way that focused more on original plot development than on delivering certain visual content the audience used to expect. The mid-late 90's films also gave less time to stories that were culturally Chinese. There is the pop star factor as well, but I'm sure someone else can talk about that much more than I can. On a related note, I think the Western genre (as in Wild West) has such archetypal roots that it's not really that "Western" at all... much more of an International genre if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted March 7, 2018 Member Share Posted March 7, 2018 It's fade out for Hong Kong films industry as China moves into the spotlight Hong Kong produced 400 films a year in the early 90s, but that number has dropped to around 60 today. Link- http://www.scmp.com/business/article/2104540/its-fade-out-hong-kongs-film-industry-china-moves-spotlight This 2017 article might sound like all doom and gloom, but I don't see Hong Kong cinema disappearing just yet. To quote @One Armed Boxer recent review of The Brink(2017), not all is lost. Quote For every person that declares the Hong Kong action movie is dead, it’s good to know that movies like The Brink still come along to remind us there’s life in it yet. - Paul Bramhall For the full review, click on the following link, thank you Link- http://cityonfire.com/the-brink-2017-review-max-zhang-jin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2018 Thanks for the shout out @DragonClaws! (Have merged the post with a thread discussing a similar topic). In fairness the decline of HK cinema can't be pinned solely on the Mainland. In the early 00's piracy was a massive issue that killed off a lot of productions. and many of its action stars were getting older so found themselves winding down as well (which is ironic, considering most of those same action stars have since, you could say, wound up again). But really, since China went through its economic boom and discovered its love of cinema, a population of almost 1.4 billion people was always going to be more appealing than a population of just over 7 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 8, 2018 Jackie Chan weighs in on the subject - https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/08/no-distinction-chinese-hong-kong-films-anymore-says-actor-jackie-chan/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Gaijin84 Posted March 9, 2018 Member Share Posted March 9, 2018 10 hours ago, One Armed Boxer said: Jackie Chan weighs in on the subject - https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/08/no-distinction-chinese-hong-kong-films-anymore-says-actor-jackie-chan/ He’s right and it’s not a good thing... Hong Kong movies of the mid-80s to 1997 had a distinct feel that you just don’t get anymore and probably never will again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted March 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2018 Chin Siu Ho talked about his hopes for the future of the Hong Kong film industry in a recent interview posted on China Daily - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted March 10, 2018 Member Share Posted March 10, 2018 I hope he's right. It would be nice if this is the ebb and the tide begins to rise over the next few years that brings about a resurgence in HK style film-making. Things usually fade out and come back every 20 yrs. or so by way of nostalgia. But I'll tell you what it's going to take is a film of that type coming out of HK that takes the world by storm. Then that will become the new flavor for a while and they'll start cranking them out again. That's the wishful thinking on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted March 11, 2018 Member Share Posted March 11, 2018 There is no hope and there is no future. "Hong Kong" cinema is "Chinese" cinema now and that is not gonna change. That's like hoping silent movies came back in style. The conditions that made HK cinema its own unique thing doesn't exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Asmo Posted March 12, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 12, 2018 On 3/11/2018 at 1:05 PM, TibetanWhiteCrane said: There is no hope and there is no future. "Hong Kong" cinema is "Chinese" cinema now and that is not gonna change. That's like hoping silent movies came back in style. The conditions that made HK cinema its own unique thing doesn't exist anymore. As much as I wish I didn't have to, I agree with this. We might get movies that show glimpses of the old magic, but there's always going to be a deep 'Chinese' permeation that renders little distinction between modern 'HK' films and those made in Mainland China. Doesn't mean they're not necessarily devoid of enjoyment, IMO. They're just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member whitesnake Posted March 17, 2018 Member Share Posted March 17, 2018 Here's a new article about the effect of Chinese cinema on Hong Kong cinema sales companies - http://variety.com/2018/film/spotlight/filmart-monster-hunt-china-1202728345/ (March 15, 2018) "The red-hot Chinese box office has created big problems for Hong Kong sales companies." International sales company Distribution Workshop is relocating from Hong Kong to Taiwan, due to rapid changes in the film market and "to enhance our operational efficiency". "Since around 2012, when contemporary subjects depicted in broad commercial genres swept aside the previous staple of (allegory-laden) martial arts and historical dramas at the mainland Chinese box office, mainstream films have become more local. Chinese romances, comedies and dramas steeped in recent nostalgia have little appeal for international audiences." With current Chinese big budget movies making lots of money domestically in China, "Chinese producers put their focus on their home market... Moreover, much of the top talent that once was the bedrock of brand-name Hong Kong cinema has gravitated toward the China market. Directors John Woo, Andrew Lau, Dante Lam, Wong Jing and Tsui Hark have all made movies in the past year squarely aimed at mainland audiences... There's hardly a Hong Kong film today that is not made as a co-production with China - and none are the big-budget action titles that previously would have sold to markets in Southeast Asia, Europe and home entertainment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member whitesnake Posted March 21, 2018 Member Share Posted March 21, 2018 Ray of Hope? Here's a big budget Hong Kong action movie in the works. If it succeeds, this may help the Hong Kong film industry. Warriors of Future "is an upcoming Hong Kong science fiction action film directed by visual effects artist Ng Yuen-fai in his directorial debut and starring Louis Koo, Sean Lau and Carina Lau. Having been in development for three years, the film began production on 12 February 2017 and is set for release in 2019." Ng Yuen-fai was the visual effects supervisor for The Storm Warriors, Bodyguards and Assassins (also set in a partially-CGI Hong Kong), and Tai Chi Zero (a steampunk martial arts movie). The film's budget is $56 million. Read the recent Hollywood News story here - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/filmart-louis-koo-produce-star-56m-sci-fi-epic-warriors-future-1095293 Granted, it's a Chinese co-production, but "the film is being touted as the most visual effects-heavy Hong Kong film to date, with a future Hong Kong rendered entirely in CGI... The movie is the long cherished dream project of sci-fi fan Koo... Still, the project is something of a gamble. Although a long-established genre in Hollywood, sci-fi is rarely produced in Hong Kong or Chinese cinema." Here's another recent article in Variety - http://variety.com/2018/film/asia/one-cool-pictures-mega-budget-quartet-1202730018/ The movie is from "One Cool Pictures, the Hong Kong sales and production company that involves Louis Koo as an investor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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