Which action directors have impressed you the most in recent times (2000-onwards)?

[DiP]

Self-explanatory thread title... Take your pick.

[Sheng]

Well, I think Chin Kar Lok has been incredibly consistent throughout this millenium. The man's equally adept at designing hand combat and gunplay action, to me he’s peerless nowadays and simply the greatest of ‘em all!

Then there’s Yuen Bun who has done some remarkable stuff. He’s one whose name rarely crops up when people talk about action choreopgraphy, yet he’s responsible for a lot of absolutely unforgettable action scenes in Milkyway movies.

Also very dependable, especially for ultra-flashy OTT action is Nicky Li (Chung-Chi) and I won’t forget Donnie Yen of course, who I rate equally high as a fighter and as a fight director these days.

[odioustrident]

Tony Leung Siu Hung and Allen Lai Hai Han have both been involved with good action post 2000. Donnie is the only big name holding down fort in HK as we know.

Some TV in the last decade has had better choreography than really anything from the same period IMO. Would love to know who did the action for these shows! In addition to the below there is a series roughly translated as "Legend Chucker" with David Chiang that is also tops but I couldn't find it. Rrden3 and Loneleewinna are good youtube channels to check out for what people are still capable of these days.

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[Petie]

Some of the more recent impressive work would certainly have to be Iko Huwais and the rest of the stunt team behind Merantau and The Raid.

[Sheng]

Some of the more recent impressive work would certainly have to be Iko Huwais and the rest of the stunt team behind Merantau and The Raid.

Er... this thread has been placed in the Hong Kong Cinema section...

@ odioustrident

1. I have the utmost respect for Leung Siu Lung but left him out because he wasn't all that prolific in the last ten years. However, some of his action set pieces in the otherwise less than mediocre WHITE VENGEANCE were excellent, same for the first two IP MAN films and THE WOMAN KNIGHT OF MIRROR LAKE.

2. As an action choreographer Chin Kar Lok has been "holding down the fort" considerably more than Donnie. Also, as an AC in HK Kar Lok's name has been at least as big as his.

3. Lan Hai-Han is usually credited with other AC's so its a lil' difficult to point out his specific strenghts.

[DiP]

2. As an action choreographer Chin Kar Lok has been "holding down the fort" considerably more than Donnie. Also, as an AC in HK Kar Lok's name has been at least as big as his.

I'm not sure what you mean by "holding down the fort considerably more". It depends on few factors. Such as diversity and impact. In terms of versatility, there's no doubt that Chin Kar-Lok can claim off it being one of Hong Kong's most versatile action directors at the moment. But in terms of being popularly recognized for his action choreography and his style making a huge impact and influencing others, I don't see it. What movies did his action choreography leave great impressions in people and how has that inspired other filmmakers and movies? And why aren't most people hyping him up? Frankly, I think it's unfair to compare Kar-Lok's body of work to Donnie's because Kar-Lok be action directing in every action department (MA, streetfights, guns, car chases, wirework, explosions, you name it) while Donnie's main forte is martial arts. If Kar-Lok's work can be comparable to those of other action directors, it would be Tony Leung Siu Hung, Tung Wai, Yuen Bun; all of whom have worked for several big names in the action genre and in different kinds of action movies.

Anyway, I'll second Donnie and Yuen Bun being top contenders. But I'd like to give honorable mentions to Dion Lam (Overheard 2), Jack Wong Wai-Leung (Dog Bite Dog, Overheard, Accident, Punished), Wong Chi-Wai (Election, Exiled), and Sammo Hung (Ip Man 2).

[Sheng]

First off, the “holding the fort” phrase was “loaned” in response to another forum member. It was obviously supposed to allude to the man’s amount of work and his high HK profile in the last dozen years or so. I feel that no other AC has been hired as much for quality productions in HK as Kar Lok. And if CKL can’t qualify as a “veteran” in your books, please do some backtracking on a brother who was once Sammo’s (and almost everybody else’s) favourite man for the most insane and death-defying stunts and already worked as an AC back in the mid-80s.

Which of the movies he choreographed the action for left major impressions on people? Think of ONE NITE IN MONGKOK and all the other great Derek Yee films, think of STOOL PIDGEON (to me still Dante Lam’s most remarkable movie; CKL was already the AC on Lam’s debut feature OPTION ZERO in ’97), think of the totally incomparable DREAM HOME (some of those “action” sequences you’ll never forget!) or LUST / CAUTION, the latter arguably one of the most commercially and critically successful (and influential!) Chinese language films in ages. And correct me if I’m wrong, but I honestly don’t think that Donnie was ever involved with a film that grossed as much as LUST / CAUTION did on a worldwide scale...

As you yourself stated, versatility in all facets of action design is not what Donnie stands for. I repped the man as a MA director / fight instructor first & foremost, on this turf he’s in a class by himself, but as a well-rounded AC Chin Kar Lok has to be the top choice nowadays.

[odioustrident]

Allen Lai Hai Han is one of these guys who got assistant work with major AD's in the 90's, did one or two films on his own, then maintained his career into the 2000's. I mentioned him because he's the only one of these "latecomers" that is consistently involved with good choreography from the mid-late 90's - 2000's. The track records of the major players are so shoddy these days you have to look at the secondary ones, and it's clear that this guys name has always been attached to good output.

I had no idea Chin Kar Lok was consistently putting out good stuff these days. Any specific scenes that best exemplify this?

[Sheng]

Originally Posted by odioustrident

I had no idea Chin Kar Lok was consistently putting out good stuff these days. Any specific scenes that best exemplify this?

I’m not much of a YouTube user, I’m afraid, so I’m not the one to cobble favourite action scenes together and paste a link to my “best of” collections... So just off memory and on the spur of the moment... take for instance the very graphic sudden violent outbursts that you find in most Derek Yee movies, they’re always brilliantly executed by Kar-Lok. Be it Daniel Wu’s head-on-the-doorknob smashing scene in ONE NITE IN MONGKOK, Liu Kai Chi’s gruesome hand-severing ordeal in PROTÉGE or, again, Dan Wu’s hacked off paw in the coal-tray in SHINJUKU INCIDENT (as well as the very grounded, desperate and chillingly realistic fighting in the latter film).

Take the painfullly inept, slow and despair-driven how-to-kill-man sequence in LUST / CAUTION (that man being played by Kar-Lok himself actually), a sequence that was just so far away from the usual screen murder conventions. Take Josie Ho’s strangulation and slashing excesses in DREAM HOME or Wang Baoquiang’s absolutely harrowing body explosion in FIRE OF CONSCIENCE (if horse-falls already make some people wince, this reality-TV moment ought to yank them out of their seats!)

Anyway, from the crazy kinetics of NO PROBLEM 2 (Kar-Lok’s fist AC entry in this century) to Soi Cheang’s recent MOTORWAY, the relentless inventiveness, the panache and visceral qualities of CKL’s action designs almost always stay in my mind for days. And I think above everything that’s what makes a great AC.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

...And correct me if I’m wrong, but I honestly don’t think that Donnie was ever involved with a film that grossed as much as LUST / CAUTION did on a worldwide scale...

According to boxofficemojo (worldwide gross):

Hero: 177,394,432

Blade II: 155,010,032

Shanghai Knights: 88,323,487

Lust, Caution: 67,091,915

[Sheng]

Oops, thanks for setting the record straight! SHANGHAI KNIGHTS and the petite role Donnie had in BLADE 2 I almost forgot... but even in the aftermath of CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON its shocking to remember that a mere decade ago a film like HERO could make more than 50 million in the US alone! Makes you shudder to think what Chinese language blockbusters are able to generate there now...

[DiP]

First off, the “holding the fort” phrase was “loaned” in response to another forum member. It was obviously supposed to allude to the man’s amount of work and his high HK profile in the last dozen years or so. I feel that no other AC has been hired as much for quality productions in HK as Kar Lok. And if CKL can’t qualify as a “veteran” in your books, please do some backtracking on a brother who was once Sammo’s (and almost everybody else’s) favourite man for the most insane and death-defying stunts and already worked as an AC back in the mid-80s.

Actually, I'm not denying Kar-Lok's body of work as an action director and choreographer because I'm already aware of what he has done and the quantitative amount of his filmography. Like I said, he's one of the most versatile action directors in Hong Kong today and he deserves his dues working hard and supporting local movies. But is he among the most influential ones? That's where I'm drawing the line. I'm talking about the level of achievement and cultural impact that action directors such like Lau Kar Leung, Yuen Woo Ping, Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan, Ching Siu Tung etc are known for. I'm sure he'll get there someday.

Which of the movies he choreographed the action for left major impressions on people? Think of ONE NITE IN MONGKOK and all the other great Derek Yee films, think of STOOL PIDGEON (to me still Dante Lam’s most remarkable movie; CKL was already the AC on Lam’s debut feature OPTION ZERO in ’97), think of the totally incomparable DREAM HOME (some of those “action” sequences you’ll never forget!) or LUST / CAUTION, the latter arguably one of the most commercially and critically successful (and influential!) Chinese language films in ages. And correct me if I’m wrong, but I honestly don’t think that Donnie was ever involved with a film that grossed as much as LUST / CAUTION did on a worldwide scale...

As you yourself stated, versatility in all facets of action design is not what Donnie stands for. I repped the man as a MA director / fight instructor first & foremost, on this turf he’s in a class by himself, but as a well-rounded AC Chin Kar Lok has to be the top choice nowadays.

Dream Home (excessive violence) and Motorway (insane car stunts) would be movies with action that was memorable to me, indeed remarkable and fresh achievement for Kar-Lok in style and overall creation.

[Sheng]

I was trying to restrict my thoughts and examples strictly to this millenium, as you asked for in your thread intro. All those godfathers from the golden past you listed made their mark mainly as fight choreo directors, less as action choreographers in the modern sense. HK produces not a great deal of MA or Kung Fu films these days so the job requirements of the action director changed with the shifting parameters of the industry itself.

[DiP]

Fair enough. But I still stand for my statement on action choreography that have hit deeper within people rather than the quantitative work that has been done. Woo Ping, Sammo Hung, Donnie Yen and Ching Siu Tung fit the millennium bill because they have worked on some of the most celebrated action movies between 2000 and +. Major credit to Kar-Lok and his overall input but most of his work don't come close to the impact of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, Kung Fu Hustle, SPL, Fearless, Flash Point, and Ip Man.

[odioustrident]

Has Chin Kar Lok choreographed any extensive fight scenes this last decade besides No Problem 2 (where he was one of a few AD's)? When it comes to certain scenes in crime/drama etc.. films - it is always difficult to determine which choices were made by the "AD" and which choices were made by the actual director... or even by the screenwriter.

[DiP]

Last thing Kar-Lok choreographed fight scenes was in Bruce Lee My Brother.

[Sheng]

Fair enough. But I still stand for my statement on action choreography that have hit deeper within people rather than the quantitative work that has been done. Woo Ping, Sammo Hung, Donnie Yen and Ching Siu Tung fit the millennium bill because they have worked on some of the most celebrated action movies between 2000 and +. Major credit to Kar-Lok and his overall input but most of his work don't come close to the impact of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, Kung Fu Hustle, SPL, Fearless, Flash Point, and Ip Man.

“Quantitative work”, huh? Again, as I was trying to show, the work requirements for an AD in HK film productions have changed considerably. When you’re talking about “qualitative” AD work, you seem to have primarily the purveyors of classic KF inspired fight choreography in mind whose style mainly suits productions in a MA or period / modern wuxia context. For action that is supposed to be more grounded or “realistic” (and less reliant on extended hand combat sequences) you wouldn’t necessarily go for Ching Siu Tung’s, Sammo’s or Woo Ping’s style today. AD’s like CKL or Yuen Bun have done remarkably original work but in recent years mainly outside of the above mentioned idioms.

Originally Posted by odioustrident

Has Chin Kar Lok choreographed any extensive fight scenes this last decade besides No Problem 2 (where he was one of a few AD's)? When it comes to certain scenes in crime/drama etc.. films - it is always difficult to determine which choices were made by the "AD" and which choices were made by the actual director... or even by the screenwriter.

CKL directed NO PROBLEM 2 and was the main AD here, Wong Wai Fai being a frequent collaborater of him. You can safely assume that today Kar Lok is supervising and coordinating the action design even when he’s only listed as one of a number of AD’s.

[DiP]

You seem to think I'm lost or something. Nope, I still get your point. The work requirements as an action director has changed and that it's not restricted to just martial arts anymore but anything that action directors can get jobs for. Cool.

I still don't think being versatile and working in various movies as much as possible really matters since some action directors haven't or won't enjoy the same success and recognition as other action directors, regardless of which type of action movies are being questioned. My whole point was that Kar-Lok hasn't enjoyed the same success or got the same recognition for his style of choreography, despite that he has not only been doing choreography for fight scenes but pretty much everything, and that not many (apart from Yuen Bun and Tung Wai whom can give a run for their money) can have that kind of capacity working in the field. Being highly active in different kinds of action movies and getting decent props for it doesn't quite equal to getting wider recognition for leaving a great impact in audiences for something inspirational and memorable, even if that means repping one single department.

[Sheng]

Originally Posted by DiP

My whole point was that Kar-Lok hasn't enjoyed the same success or got the same recognition for his style of choreography, despite that he has not only been doing choreography for fight scenes but pretty much everything, and that not many (apart from Yuen Bun and Tung Wai whom can give a run for their money) can have that kind of capacity working in the field.

Never tried to insinuate you’re “lost” or “don’t get the point”, blood. And of course, in terms of commercial success and international recognition Chin Kar Lok’s name couldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as the ones of those compañeros you repped. But I guess except Donnie its safe to state that their international renown is not (or only partially) based on their work from the last ten years or so, its the result of decades of AD work that got them their belated (worldwide) approval.

Fact is that if HK or Chinese language cinema did make a splash in the US it was mostly with MA-related films. Even the most ingenious and box office-busting HK dramas / crime thrillers released in the last decade like, say, INFERNAL AFFAIRS, remained commercial nonentities in the West. So consequently the people who’re responsible for the oftentimes incomparably inventive action design in movies of this type do not get much in terms of international kudos (or Hollywood assignments, for that matter).

[AlbertV]

Chin Kar-Lok also did the fight scenes for STAR RUNNER (aka THE KUMITE). Prior to shooting, he sent Vanness Wu, Andy On, and Shaun Tam to train with him and Billy Chow at Billy's Gym (Chow's Muay Thai school) to prepare and Philip Ng even joined on the stunt team at that point.

The late Ailen Sit had done some decent work, like CHINA STRIKE FORCE. Yes I know there was some crazy wirework in that film, but I'm talking more like the fight scenes between Kim Won-Jin and Aaron Kwok and then the Muay Thai sparring between Ken Lo and Mark Dacascos (Deedee Ku assisted with that fight scene as he appeared in photos on Mark's website at the time).

Deedee Ku had done some decent stuff himself. I did like his work in the Brazilian film BESOURO. The wire stuff was supposed to be part of the "supernatural aspect", but he did choreograph some nice capoeira in it.

Of course, Donnie Yen and Sammo Hung also reigned supreme from 2000-to today. Sammo did do the IP MAN films with Tony Leung Siu-Hung, who also did LEGEND IS BORN - IP MAN and did some nice choreography for Bollywood's answer to BEST OF THE BEST, LAHORE.

[odioustrident]

This advocation of Chin Kar Lok is really different and I appreciate that... but the singular acts of film violence you're citing don't really add up to a significant body of work in this decade, especially when you consider that the creative content in these scenes is often laid out by the director or screenwriter (as I said). I also consider AD's and stunt coordinators really two different things too commonly under the same name. I judge an action director, first and foremost, by the amount of new creative content his name is attached to (new exchanges, moves, stunts, awareness of camera angles etc...) CKL has done a lot of films but we really don't know much actual work that represents... unless there are more fight scenes beyond Star Runner, No Problem 2, and Bruce Lee, My Brother. Fight scenes best exemplify an AD's talent given the amount of content packed into one scene.

[Sheng]

@ odioustrident

Please note that some of the explosive moments (or “singular acts of violence”, as you say) of CKL designed action I randomly listed were mostly part of longer brawls or fight or chase scenes. As I said, nowadays it really is fair to say that Kar Lok is absolutely in charge when hired by the likes of Derek Yee or others, meaning he (or the team he directs) is equally adept at fight action, gunplay and stuntwork including car or motorcycle stunts. There’s some interesting footage about the major part CKL plays in the productions he’s hired for in the very extensive extra material and b-rolls on the CineAsia double-disc of SHINJUKU INCIDENT. I think the very realistically staged, intentionally non-KF fight action in this film or in ONE NITE IN MONGKOK are good starting points to gauge CKL approach to action directing.

[odioustrident]

@ odioustrident

Please note that some of the explosive moments (or “singular acts of violence”, as you say) of CKL designed action I randomly listed were mostly part of longer brawls or fight or chase scenes. As I said, nowadays it really is fair to say that Kar Lok is absolutely in charge when hired by the likes of Derek Yee or others, meaning he (or the team he directs) is equally adept at fight action, gunplay and stuntwork including car or motorcycle stunts. There’s some interesting footage about the major part CKL plays in the productions he’s hired for in the very extensive extra material and b-rolls on the CineAsia double-disc of SHINJUKU INCIDENT. I think the very realistically staged, intentionally non-KF fight action in this film or in ONE NITE IN MONGKOK are good starting points to gauge CKL approach to action directing.

I'll have to check all this stuff out. Looking forward to it. I thought City Cop and King of Robbery had great scenes in the regard we're discussing.

[mark187]

certainly Donnie Yen, starting mainly from SPL onwards through Flash Point, and his 3 most recent films. Looking very much forward to Special Identity and The Iceman, and to a lesser degree The Monkey King. He is certainly the best overall in the business right now! Chin Kar-Lok has also been impressive as of lately, with The Viral Factor, Motorway and Cold War earning him three well-deserved nominations at the HKFA this year. Looking forward to Firestorm w/ Andy Lau and That Demon Within!

[Cognoscente]

Tony Leung Siu-Hung has impressed me the most, but his American filmography baffles me. If he was willing to do straight-to-video fare then why not reunite with Rothrock? He brought out the best in her, which is saying a lot since it's not easy to top Sammo or Corey.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cognoscente