Chinese Zodiac: CZ12 (Formerly 'Armour of God 3') (2012)

[Guest Markgway]

Forbidden Kingdom was pretty poor considering the potential and money spent.

[The Dragon]

I remember when it was announced that Jackie would do another Police Story flick, I made in my pants... Now, with all the crap we've been given in the past years, I am less then excited.

Umm... You're saying you've crapped out?

:l

With JC flicks, I did that long ago.

:quiet:

[SimonMW]

Part of the problem now is firstly Jackie can't do the stuff he used to, but also there is the issue of time.

In days gone by he could take 3 months to shoot one fight sequence (the ending of DM2). Even Sammo Hung, a man who is known for his extremely quick pace of shooting took two years to make Prodigal Son because of the intricacy needed for the fights.

These days they are lucky to get two weeks to shoot a major fight! So it is hardly any wonder that the fights are sloppier and much shorter than they used to be. It is absolutely astounding that we got SPL and Flash Point.

Personally I think that jackie is still capable of making a stunning fight sequence, but only IF he takes full control and goes back to his old ways of taking as much time as it takes to get the fight to perfection. His hand speed and general footwork are still really good.

I'd like to see him do a proper 'shapes' movie again. Perhaps a sequel to Snake In The Eagles Shadow or one of his other traditional kung fu films. But *only* if he can take the time needed. None of this shooting the end fight in five days business that goes on nowadays.

[Fightingfist]

So there is a third film of this?

[Asmo]

There will be.

[Omni Dragon]

So there is a third film of this?

i can lend u 2 but i only have it in Eng dub.

[Fightingfist]

i can lend u 2 but i only have it in Eng dub.

O rite kwlll, yh havent seen no.2 yet so after tht.

[Guest ekisha]

I'd like to see him do a proper 'shapes' movie again. Perhaps a sequel to Snake In The Eagles Shadow or one of his other traditional kung fu films. But *only* if he can take the time needed. None of this shooting the end fight in five days business that goes on nowadays.

Snake In The Eagle's Shadow 2 sounds cool.

They did the first drunken master in 78 but the sequel was made after 16 years,so it sounds reasonable.

I just hope he doesn't use too much wires and turn "AOG3" to wuxia like "the Myth".

[newgen2005]

To be honest I have kind of given up on Jackie these days since rumble in the bronx most of his films are very stupid, loads of CGI and people flying round on wires like superman!! If he does all that with AOG 3 then he is only going to let his old school fans down I know times move on but come on jackie!! look what has happened to steven seagal now!!! movies are not worth the discs they are burnt on!!

[SimonMW]

He doesn't need to perform high or aerial kicks, just good handwork, some throws and weapons/ Plus, a great bunch of stuntmen to perform all the falls.

I agree. I've been saying this for a while now. Jackie still has the hand speed and the ability to do intricate stuff, but the trouble is that he seems to be unable to go down the LKL and SH route and concentrate on the fighting. Thats why I like Sammos films and LKL's films better because each fight has a story and the fighters have strategies.

Forbidden Kingdom i liked, but everyone dismisses it.

I quite liked it, but Jackie was doubled a heck of a lot compared with Jet. The other thing that one of my friends observed was that Jackie always seems to be absent from the end fights of his films these days! In FK he was relegated to fighting the secondary bad character, and once again didn't actually do much with it.

One other funny observation my friends wife made was when she asked him why he bothered to watch Jackie Chan films. She said "all he does is run to the top of a building and then jumps off it!" My friend denied this as they were watching a Chan film where... he ran to the top of a building and jumped off it! Can anyone think of a Chan film where he doesn't run to the top of a building and then jumps off it/out of it?

Anyhow, I've gone way off topic. I watched DM2 the other day for the first time in a long while. My girlfriend quite enjoyed it, but I found myself underwhelmed. I was quite taken aback at how split up the fights such as the one in the market were.

[SimonMW]

Why all the hate for Stanley Tong ?

Could be something to do with the fact that when Tong started to direct Jackies films the age of the big Jackie end fight seemed to come to an end. I remember an interview with Chan around the time of Rumble In The Bronx when he broke his ankle and couldn't do the planned big one on one fight and had to do an all action non fight ending instead. He said something along the lines of "I realised that I don't always have to do an end fight".

So that was it. Think about it. Most films (with the very odd exception such as Gorgeous and Who Am I?) he has done since then have consisted of endings that have had sporadic small bits of hand to hand fighting, but nothing of any real meat and substance.

Police Story 4 was also Tong and there again there was only tiny bits of fighting. Yes, the ladder fight was a classic, but the underwater fight was just gimmicky and dull. So pretty much with Stanley Tong at the helm I think we can guarantee that we won't get any major fight action going on.

I'll also add that one of the issues is that Jackies fight action films are now aimed at kids and families. Whereas the classic Jackie films such as PS1 and 2 were not. Once he started thinking that he has to do the funny face ALL the time we were doomed.

[VenomsFan]

I remember Jackie saying that the 3d installment is going to be different from the first two. He wanted it to be more of a family-friendly fantasy film with special effects and wire fu, similar to The Myth.

never mind then. dissapointment here we come,

[Guest Markgway]

Stanley Tong is a great stunt co-ordinator...

Stanley Tong is not a great director.

[Grimmjow]

I agree with many of the comments here, for me Chan has really tarnished his legacy with his recent movies, the man was once number 1 in my eyes and a true legend but now if you look back at his last 10 years it's been terrible, so bad that where once the news of a new Jackie movie got me excited I now tend to groan and wonder how bad it will be.

There have been a few exceptions, New Police Story was quite good but it reminded me that Chan isn't the man anymore as he looked a lot slower and more wire assisted then the original Police Storie movies.

Rob B Hood was kinda fun, Forbidden Kingdom was entertaining enough and did feature the long awaited Jet and Jackie partnership. These movies aside everything else has ranged from barely watchable to just plain awful

Chan clearly has a big ego because he cannot step away from movies or take smaller roles, look at Sammo, he has been great in movies like SPL, Fatal Move, Dragon Squad and Wushu because he took a step back and let other people show there stuff and didn't over expose his limited move set due to old age. Jackie should take a leaf out of Sammos book and do this himself.

Jet Li also is making much better movies than Jackie and is in my opinion now the king of kung fu cinema, well untill Tony Jaa stops taking 2-3 years to make a movie.

All this aside Jackie was the Man in the 80's and early 90's such a shame he has done what he said he'd never do and become Chan lite, he actually said in the 80's he'd retire at 40-45 and just produce and direct films but he clearly couldn't step away, he also used to slag off the wire work in movies like Once Upon a time in China but now he clearly favours it.

Jackie Please retire!!

[Macho King]

If all I can expect from 'Chinese Zodiac' is another 'Myth', then count me out. If The Myth proved anything, its that Stanley Tong is too small-time for this magnitude of a production.

[lillippa328]

when was Jackie Doubled in FK?

and i know they said they had to slow the fighting down between him and Jet so he must still be able to function fine....

and i liked New Police Story, Robin B Hood, and FK

[BaronK]

"Jet Li also is making much better movies than Jackie and is in my opinion now the king of kung fu cinema"

Wow. Can't, even, comment, on that. King of Kung Fu Cinema. Jet. Wow.

"when was Jackie Doubled in FK?"

You really can't tell? It was all over the place. He and of course Jet, were doubled like mad in the fight that they had. Jet's double looks like a teenager from behind. Like the one he used in the first brawl from Unleashed.

[Milkyway]

look at Sammo, he has been great in movies like SPL, Fatal Move, Dragon Squad and Wushu because he took a step back and let other people show there stuff and didn't over expose his limited move set due to old age.

That doesn't take away that fact that Fatal Move, Wushu and specially Dragon Squad still sucked balls. Being directed by others doesn't mean great movies either.

[Grimmjow]

"Jet Li also is making much better movies than Jackie and is in my opinion now the king of kung fu cinema"

Wow. Can't, even, comment, on that. King of Kung Fu Cinema. Jet. Wow.

"when was Jackie Doubled in FK?"

You really can't tell? It was all over the place. He and of course Jet, were doubled like mad in the fight that they had. Jet's double looks like a teenager from behind. Like the one he used in the first brawl from Unleashed.

Are you being sarcastic? Who else has the box office draw, name value, international recognition and makes consistantly decent movies other than Jet Li??

[Grimmjow]

That doesn't take away that fact that Fatal Move, Wushu and specially Dragon Squad still sucked balls. Being directed by others doesn't mean great movies either.

Haven't seen Wushu yet but I quite liked Dragon Squad, agree about Fatal Move, my point is that by playing the mentor role or bad guy boss Sammo has rejuvenated his career and I think Jackie could do the same.

[lillippa328]

Haven't seen Wushu yet but I quite liked Dragon Squad, agree about Fatal Move, my point is that by playing the mentor role or bad guy boss Sammo has rejuvenated his career and I think Jackie could do the same.

u liked Dragon Squad but thought Fatal Move sucked?

im sorry but Fatal Move is waaay better than Dragon Squad and Wushu...FM might not be the best, but its still a good movie

[Milkyway]

my point is that by playing the mentor role or bad guy boss Sammo has rejuvenated his career and I think Jackie could do the same.

Any of that doesn't just depend on an actor's career choice. It comes to down to the overall ability of the team behind the movies of producing great quality to their work.

[BaronK]

Fearless, War, Warlords, Forbidden Kingdom, The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, Founding of the Nation, The Expendables

King of Kung Fu Cinema? Not even Jack was that as he was an action guy, not a kung fu, fighting guy so to speak. When I see that sentence, the first names to pop in my head are Tony J and Donnie. They are doing the martial stuff. OB2, FP, SPL and DTG. I can remember the action as I type. They are doing "stuff". They are creating. That's the kind of stuff it was. Jet? Personally can't think of sequences or takes from those above. For me, nothing of note to remember, or be drawn in by occured.

[lillippa328]

Right now the king is easily Donnie Yen....

not Tony Jaa cuz hes only had 3 movies....if he starts crankin em then id say him....

Wu Jing needs better roles!!!! Cuz he could easily be considerd!!! If he got more films/roles like Drunken Monkey, Kill Zone, Tai Chi Boxer then he'd be perfect

[SimonMW]

I agree that Donnie is the current king. His career really has had a second wind the last few years.

Thing is though that Donnie entered the industry when YWP was at the top of his game and you still had to be a total hard nut to succeed in HK films. When Donnie decides to retire or to take more of a back seat I do not know who could fill his place.

An issue with many of the newer martial arts actors like Wu Jing is that they are Wu Shu competition guys, and they move in that way. Its the same with Jet Li, his movements have never really sat right in 'modern day' settings.

Donnie on the other hand has the wu shu tutelage, as well as the real fighting knowledge and training in Taekwondo, boxing, etc so he can perform well in all genres without looking out of place.