Chinese Zodiac: CZ12 (Formerly 'Armour of God 3') (2012)

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Yeah, me too... in no hurry to watch this one. Though I will eventually check it out. But that mainland pandering is getting more than tiresome. I really feel like my love of JC and HK movies (if you can even call them that) is coming to an end. This is not based on this movie, which I haven't even seen yet, but just an overall feeling of fatigue, like in the final days of a relationship turned sour. "hey, babe, we had a good run, but I think im kinda done"....... that kinda feeling. It's a sad realization, but hey... life goes on.

[ShaOW!linDude]

I hate to agree with you, TWC, but that's fairly succinct and apt analogy. It's a shame, too. Unfortunately for me, I've always been one to pine for what could or might have been.

[Guest Markgway]

I would've been happy if Jackie had retired in 1999 after Gorgeous - and I hate to say that. The 'highlights' of the last 12 years have been few and far between. The CZ review is exactly what I expected.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Who Am I? is, to me, the last "real" Jackie Chan film. Accidental Spy had its moments, and I really enjoyed New Police Story, but yeah, that's about it. I've come to terms with the fact that he will never do another movie that will excite me, and that's his prerogative of course. But for me, the magic is gone. I'll always have the old classics, and that's great. But in regards to future JC projects, im just not gonna care, and as mentioned above, that is also kinda true for my enthusiasm for HK cinema as a whole. Im sure there will be the odd cool flick here and there, but unless the industry reinvents itself, in some form or another, I think im done.

Funny, for me it started with Jackie and Young Master on rental vhs back in the mid 80's, and in some strange way, it kind of ends with him too. I guess he was sort of the symbol or throughline of my love for HK cinema.

[Drunken Monk]

Funny, for me it started with Jackie and Young Master on rental vhs back in the mid 80's, and in some strange way, it kind of ends with him too. I guess he was sort of the symbol or throughline of my love for HK cinema.

Wow, so your love for Hong Kong cinema has faded entirely?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Well, i'll still watch, discover and appreciate old films. But usually, what fed the flames of enthusiasm, for me, is that there were still a place in the world where they made good action films that I loved. I haven't cared two fucks about hollywwod for over a decade, and european films to my taste are pretty few and far between, so HK was sort of a beacon for me, and really the only place that still made movies "for me". That is no more.

I've tried to look past the mainland influence, the lack of talent, the watered down action but I just can't do it anymore.Unlike my love for say film noir or poliziotteschi or whatever dead genres I watch, HK films was still like a living and ongoing organism, in that there were all these great old films, but also still new great films being made, in the same vein, and sometimes with and by the same people from the golden era (those few who are still on the scene).

But without the new stuff to keep my enthusiasm for the old stuff going, it's kinda like a dead romance. Yes, i'll still watch the old movies from time to time, and always appreciate them, but I have almost all the old films that I want, so there is no progress.

Am I making sense?

[Drunken Monk]

Well, i'll still watch, discover and appreciate old films. But usually, what fed the flames of enthusiasm, for me, is that there were still a place in the world where they made good action films that I loved. I haven't cared two fucks about hollywwod for over a decade, and european films to my taste are pretty few and far between, so HK was sort of a beacon for me, and really the only place that still made movies "for me". That is no more.

I've tried to look past the mainland influence, the lack of talent, the watered down action but I just can't do it anymore.Unlike my love for say film noir or poliziotteschi or whatever dead genres I watch, HK films was still like a living and ongoing organism, in that there were all these great old films, but also still new great films being made, in the same vein, and sometimes with and by the same people from the golden era (those few who are still on the scene).

But without the new stuff to keep my enthusiasm for the old stuff going, it's kinda like a dead romance. Yes, i'll still watch the old movies from time to time, and always appreciate them, but I have almost all the old films that I want, so there is no progress.

Am I making sense?

You make perfect sense. It may sound silly but this is a fandom that really relies on hope so I completely understand when that fails and you lose all faith that new films will have any iota of entertainment.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Reading back my own posts, I realize that they come across a bit gloomy and doomy, I mean hey... I got other stuff in my life. Im not gonna go hang myself in the garage, it's just movies But with that said, my love for HK cinema is probably the longest love affair of my life, and it's kinda sad to see it dwindle.

One could hope that other asian territories would pick up the mantle and run with it. For a while in the mid 00's I thought it was gonna be Thailand...... well, color me dissapointed. And while I appreciate efforts like The Raid and stuff, I don't think any ONE place is ever gonna gonna produce the quantity and quality of all out action entertainment like HK did in it's heyday.

I'll always keep my eye on action asian cinema, but I do so with lowered expectations and the somewhat bitter sting of nostalgia for the good old times.

[Ramji]

Am I making sense?

I know what you mean TWC. I was watching Detective Dee last night and while I enjoyed the story and spectacle I just couldn't get excited about the action. Too much cgi and uninspiring wire work. I tried but compared to what we've had in the past it pales in comparison. It probably didn't help that I'd watched Drunken Master 2 earlier on in the day, just to remind myself of what Jackie used to be able to deliver.

Saying that, I did like Little Big Soldier and I felt it had some of the the old Jackie magic to it. Will keep one eye open on the new police story movie but obviously expecting something more drama based than action.

Chinese Zodiac does look like one big disappointment, do we really want to see CGI skydiving over volcanoes in a Chan film? I wish he could just scale it back and keep it simple.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Yeah, it is truly disheartening to put recent films up against those of the golden era.

[HyperDrive]

Another movie that will probably leave me feeling like I should have a game controller in my hands.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Is Jackie (and his movies) even popular in HK anymore? I know he enjoys a certain status and respect within the industry, but in terms of the moviegoing HK public is he still relevant, does anyone know?

[D1 Ma]

TibetanWhiteCrane, - my thoughts exactly! For almost 25 years I've been a fan HK action movies and now I feel exactly the same...

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Good to know it isn't just me...... well, not GOOD per se, but yeah, I think a lot of fans feel like this to some degree.

[andy338]

Is Jackie (and his movies) even popular in HK anymore? I know he enjoys a certain status and respect within the industry, but in terms of the moviegoing HK public is he still relevant, does anyone know?

When I first travelled to Hong Kong back in 2004 whenever I got an opportunity to talk about movies i'd mention Kung Fu and Jackie Chan expecting the locals to be as enthusiastic as me but mostly I never got more than a polite smile before they'd tell me about how much they liked Hollywood movies. Once while at a gym I remember asking a group of twenty somethings about Jackie and they told me that their parents used to like him, giving the impression he was distinctly uncool. I've been to HK a number of times since and to be honest I hardly ever mention Jackie/Kung Fu to anybody as it seems to be a bit of a conversation killer.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

That's what I suspected. And Jackie must know it too, hence, he's betting on the mainland market instead. Whether HK turned its back on him, or it was the other way around, I don't know.

[andy338]

That's what I suspected. And Jackie must know it too, hence, he's betting on the mainland market instead. Whether HK turned its back on him, or it was the other way around, I don't know.

Ong Bak was playing in HK on my first trip and Tony Jaa was getting a lot of attention as he attended the Premiere in Mongkok so I used this to ask people how they thought he compared to the local stars that'd clearly influenced him thinking that they'd be proud of the older generation actors and movies but they didn't seem to be.

My opinion is that young people in particular tend to follow the latest trends and Jackie/Kung Fu hasn't been relevant for the last 20 years or so. I think that if most of us on here aren't excited about a new JC movie it's easy to see how his popularity would fade amongst non kung fu movie fans even in his own country.

[mark187]

http://twitchfilm.com/2012/12/review-chinese-zodiac-cz12-jackie-chan.html

Twitch posts another review, this one highly negative. although I think the level of enjoyment we might get out of this movie will be based on our own expectations. my expectations are that it will at least be better than The Medallion

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Well, if Medallion is your yardstick, then Jackie's output of the last decade, doesn't look that bad I guess:smile:

Seriously though, that review really killed the last glimmer of hope I had for this movie being even marginally entertaining. Wonder if i'll even finish it, once I pick it up from the bargain bin. Never finished The Medallion, at least not in one sitting.

[Guest Markgway]

"When British forces invaded China in 1860, they stole a number of prized Chinese antiquities"

So we're the bad guys again?

"As Actor, Writer, Director, Producer, Cinematographer, Composer, Stunt Coordinator and, most bizarrely, Catering Coordinator, to name just some of his roles, there is no getting around the fact that the film is something of a vanity project for Chan."

Oh, for fuck's sake!

"It is not the film's message that is bothersome - after all it is hard to argue against returning pillaged national treasures to their rightful owners - but it is the clumsy, confrontational manner in which the film handles it that is likely to rile audiences and bore them to tears."

Exactly what I expect now from Chan; maybe he wants to be China's next premier?

"French television actress Laura Weissbecker... has an uphill struggle to be anything put a punch bag for the Chinese cast, and the execrable dialogue her character is given all but scuppers any possibility of her giving a decent performance."

Some things never change. And they wonder why name stars won't do these movies? Oliver Platt's career must be in dire straits.

[Drunken Monk]

Wow, Twitch film really butchered it. I really think the last thing we need is a Jackie vanity project.

[cooksandkungfoodle]

Injury he got while filming cz12..I thought he was milking this a little bit til i saw his injury...OUCH!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dIxTImZnS8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[lillippa328]

tough ol' dude lol...even his cgi stuff he takes his bumps....i dont know why so many people hate on the man.... he always puts it on the line for his movies....

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I don't hate THE MAN, I hate his latest movies. I know he's getting on in years, but I also know his true potential, and I think it's sad that his cinematic legacy will fizzle out with these halfass stinkers. But hey, that's his choice and merely my opinion.

[newgen2005]

I agree with all the comments about JC. The first film I watched of his was Dragons Forever back in 1991, I was blown away by it!, I brought/rented and spent loads on Videos and spent a small fortune on Laserdiscs! I followed him till about '96, then when he started making stuff like Rush Hour/Shanghai Knights etc, I lost interest in him! I get mad when I see him in those silly movies! Such a shame!

My final thought:

To me Jackie is just too false these days!!